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Roanoke City Circuit Court extralegal demands for CHP

Grapeshot

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May 21, 2006
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Has the $50 rule changed? Fauquier County is charging $55.

The maximum of $50.00 for everything pertaining to acquiring or renewing a CHP is set in stone. The total amount is controlled by the Code of Virginia.
http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/18.2-308.HTM

Do you happen to have anything in writing to support this or direct us to where this reference might be found?

Also are you getting ready to renew or have you done so recently?

There is an effort being worked on to bring counties/cities into compliance with this type of thing. Mark Mathews (VCDL EM) will be coordinating.
 

hunter45

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Myrtle Beach, SC
The maximum of $50.00 for everything pertaining to acquiring or renewing a CHP is set in stone. The total amount is controlled by the Code of Virginia.
http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/18.2-308.HTM

Do you happen to have anything in writing to support this or direct us to where this reference might be found?

Also are you getting ready to renew or have you done so recently?

There is an effort being worked on to bring counties/cities into compliance with this type of thing. Mark Mathews (VCDL EM) will be coordinating.

A friend of mine just applied for his CHP today in Fauquier County and he told me it was $55. I'll have to see if he has anything in writing that shows this.
 

Grapeshot

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The maximum of $50.00 for everything pertaining to acquiring or renewing a CHP is set in stone. The total amount is controlled by the Code of Virginia.
http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/18.2-308.HTM

Do you happen to have anything in writing to support this or direct us to where this reference might be found?

Also are you getting ready to renew or have you done so recently?

There is an effort being worked on to bring counties/cities into compliance with this type of thing. Mark Mathews (VCDL EM) will be coordinating.

A friend of mine just applied for his CHP today in Fauquier County and he told me it was $55. I'll have to see if he has anything in writing that shows this.

Here is the pertinent wording from Section K:

"The total amount assessed for processing an application for a permit shall not exceed $50, with such fees to be paid in one sum to the person who accepts the application. Payment may be made by any method accepted by that court for payment of other fees or penalties."

It would be super if he had a receipt or copy of his application showing that amount as paid - do not post a copy of it here though - just let me know.
 
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mk4

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Sep 22, 2011
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VA
A friend of mine just applied for his CHP today in Fauquier County and he told me it was $55. I'll have to see if he has anything in writing that shows this.

looking at: http://www.fauquiercounty.gov/government/departments/circuitcourt/index.cfm?action=conhandgunpermit
what stands out is all the extra copies of forms and attachments they're 'requiring'. i'm guessing your friend let them charge him the extra $5 for making those copies as item 1d states, bringing his total to $55.

the problem is in requiring the applicant to supply the extra copies, i believe, which go beyond statutory requirements.

Grape... is this the kind of irregularity Mark is working on?
 
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TFred

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looking at: http://www.fauquiercounty.gov/government/departments/circuitcourt/index.cfm?action=conhandgunpermit
what stands out is all the extra copies of forms and attachments they're 'requiring'. i'm guessing your friend let them charge him the extra $5 for making those copies as item 1d states, bringing his total to $55.

the problem is in requiring the applicant to supply the extra copies, i believe, which go beyond statutory requirements.

Grape... is this the kind of irregularity Mark is working on?
SB 563 is still doing fine (passed the Senate 32-8, and should pass the House with a wide margin), and should take care of this problem.

Will add this to the pertinent section of 18.2-308:

"No information or documentation other than that which is allowed on the application in accordance with this subsection may be requested or required by the clerk or the court."

TFred

P.S. There's always the route that I believe User (or maybe Mike?) has suggested: Take in the full application (according to the letter of the code) and demand that they file it, along with having them put a time/date stamp on your own copy that you have brought just for that purpose, as proof of filing. As clerks of the court, the point was that they don't have the authority to refuse to accept a filing request of a court document. (If they refuse to act on the application as you filed it, then it forces them to deny your permit based on a reason that is not in the code, which I suspect will be a line they are not willing to cross.) Don't know how far that will get you, but it would certainly be interesting to try sometime.
 
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Grapeshot

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looking at: http://www.fauquiercounty.gov/government/departments/circuitcourt/index.cfm?action=conhandgunpermit
what stands out is all the extra copies of forms and attachments they're 'requiring'. i'm guessing your friend let them charge him the extra $5 for making those copies as item 1d states, bringing his total to $55.

the problem is in requiring the applicant to supply the extra copies, i believe, which go beyond statutory requirements.

Grape... is this the kind of irregularity Mark is working on?

That is my understanding as well as illegal ordinances.
 

Tosta Dojen

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Jul 23, 2008
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Roanoke, Virginia, USA
The circuit court is standing by its policy that requires applicants for concealed handgun permits to appear in person before and submit documents to the Roanoke Police Academy. I have not complied with these additional requirements. The court has failed to process my application, and the clerk of court has refused to issue a de facto permit as required by law.

This morning, a Petition for Writ of Mandamus was served upon the Circuit Court for the City of Roanoke, and Brenda S. Hamilton, Clerk of the Court. The petition explains in detail exactly why the policy is illegal, and asks the Supreme Court of Virginia to issue Writs of Mandamus against the named Respondents ordering them to fulfill their obligations under Virginia Code §18.2-308.
 

Grapeshot

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The circuit court is standing by its policy that requires applicants for concealed handgun permits to appear in person before and submit documents to the Roanoke Police Academy. I have not complied with these additional requirements. The court has failed to process my application, and the clerk of court has refused to issue a de facto permit as required by law.

This morning, a Petition for Writ of Mandamus was served upon the Circuit Court for the City of Roanoke, and Brenda S. Hamilton, Clerk of the Court. The petition explains in detail exactly why the policy is illegal, and asks the Supreme Court of Virginia to issue Writs of Mandamus against the named Respondents ordering them to fulfill their obligations under Virginia Code §18.2-308.

Excellent!! That will get their attention.

We definitely need some teeth in these laws too.
 

Glockster

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Houston
The problem is getting the camera to the Clerks Office, Grape.
Generally you have to get through the metal detectors to go there. I have an idea I want to try out tomorrow. If it works, it'll work statewide.

I didn't see any follow-up on this point so wanted to ask (as it ties into my own situation) but did you come up with a workable idea for this?

Added: Never mind! I zipped past it the first time and didn't see the post that pretty much answered this.
 
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peter nap

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Valhalla
The circuit court is standing by its policy that requires applicants for concealed handgun permits to appear in person before and submit documents to the Roanoke Police Academy. I have not complied with these additional requirements. The court has failed to process my application, and the clerk of court has refused to issue a de facto permit as required by law.

This morning, a Petition for Writ of Mandamus was served upon the Circuit Court for the City of Roanoke, and Brenda S. Hamilton, Clerk of the Court. The petition explains in detail exactly why the policy is illegal, and asks the Supreme Court of Virginia to issue Writs of Mandamus against the named Respondents ordering them to fulfill their obligations under Virginia Code §18.2-308.

:banana:Go get em!

I just read the writ:lol:
It was very, very well done. I thought I recognized some of the handwriting.

This is going to be interesting. Please keep us up on it!
 
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Glockster

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Excellent, outstanding, and everything else! Been waiting to see what was happening with this one as in the most important ways it is right in line with what Virginia Beach is requiring applicants to do (deliver to the VBPD, pay the VBPD). This could make for a real nice template!
 

Glockster

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I am curious about the decision to file this pro se. Was this not one of those things that you could recover legal fees for, or were there other reasons that you decided to go without an actual attorney (for the filing, recognizing that you probably had some great help along the way). If you can't explain, I understand, but if you can it would be helpful to others to understand how you came to that decision. I have to say (as someone who has filed pro se in Federal District Court) that I sure do admire the moxy involved in filing a pro se petition with the VASC!

Added: Having read this fully through now four times all I can say is that it is truly a thing of beauty! This is going to be SO MUCH fun to watch play out, and I think that this will have lots of other impact. So well done!!!
 
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BillB

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Outstanding to above! It's truly refreshing to see someone taking action and not just complaining. Bravo!
 
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skidmark

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Valhalla
I'm joining the line of folks offering their congratulations and support. Well done!

I have long been an advocate for the use of Writs of Mandamus in situations like this. All too often others have suggested and encouraged all sorts of other avenues of action. Your providing a copy of the petition for the Writ may serve to help others understand just what it is and how relatively simple the process is to petition for one.

Someone did a bang-up job on the citations. I hope they will be willing to let others benefit from their research, just as I hope that you will allow others to essentially copy & paste your petition as a template for use.

stay safe.
 

Glockster

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I'm joining the line of folks offering their congratulations and support. Well done!

I have long been an advocate for the use of Writs of Mandamus in situations like this. All too often others have suggested and encouraged all sorts of other avenues of action. Your providing a copy of the petition for the Writ may serve to help others understand just what it is and how relatively simple the process is to petition for one.

Someone did a bang-up job on the citations. I hope they will be willing to let others benefit from their research, just as I hope that you will allow others to essentially copy & paste your petition as a template for use.

stay safe.

Yes. Cannot state the same often enough. I think that the situation with Virginia Beach (and who knows how many others) is SO close to be the identical situation. I so have on my mind being able to re-utilize this knowledge. And I agree with you 100% in that at this point in the game (after all that so many have already had to put in to fight stuff like this) that this kind of action is much more likely to have results (everywhere).
 

TFred

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Oct 13, 2008
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Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
This link was posted earlier in the thread... but take a look this whole web page is written with a distinctive anti-gun slant. Here are the first two sentences on the page:

"Certain persons may be issued permits to carry a concealed handgun in the Commonwealth of Virginia. The issuance of this permit is subject to a lengthy and rigorous application process and does not permit a firearm to be carried in any otherwise prohibited place."

How ridiculous.

It's time to elect a new clerk of the court in Roanoke!

http://www.roanokeva.gov/85256A8D0062AF37/CurrentBaseLink/N255RP6B258CFIREN

They even have at least one outright error, under the list of "Some of the many reasons for disqualification," we find:

"Ineligibility to possess a firearm due to other federal or state laws (such as being under 21 years of age)"

Just plain WRONG. You must be 21 to obtain a permit, but under 21 does NOT make you ineligible to possess a firearm.

TFred
 

riverrat10k

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on a rock in the james river
TD---just read it all. A thing of beauty!

Appears they have NO legs to stand on, from my view.

Slightly off topic, what is it with the City of Roanoke? It seems the books are full of illegal policies such as this. Is there something in the towns history that explains their restrictive nature?
 
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