Is this considered a Pistol and is in violationg of State Vs Casad ?

State_v_Casad_(unpublished).pdf

Felon with rifle arrested at Westlake Park

First I would like to say that he likely knew it was illegal for him to be carrying a gun but as we seen in Casad where a felon was stopped with no RAS or Probable Cause was arrested and cited just to have it over turned later.
The Police and News report this as a rifle but I am thinking this is one of the conversions that make it a handgun, any thoughts.
Is this one of those In a Place of at (rcw 9.41.270(1) "a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons."

I am thinking he will lose in court and the appeal process on this one due to not being in a park but while a demonstration is going on and likely in hours of dusk of not getting pretty dark at the time.

Not a pistol. The gun in the picture is a stainless Ruger Mini-14 with an aftermarket side-folding stock. That particular model looks to be the Butler Creek version. The Mini 14's have an 18.5" bbl, and a "Short-Barrel Rifle" is anything less than 16". Yet another instance of "Truth in the Media."

Not enough information to go on as far as the Casad reference. My guess is if the guy was talking loud enough about his gun, calling attention to it on his own, then who knows if he volunteered all of the information and the weapon as he was approached in a "voluntary conversation."

I concur, that is a full-size rifle with a folding stock.

G20-IWB24/7 said:

Not enough information to go on as far as the Casad reference. My guess is if the guy was talking loud enough about his gun, calling attention to it on his own, then who knows if he volunteered all of the information and the weapon as he was approached in a "voluntary conversation."

Click to expand...

Casad volunteered his information as well to include I believe that he was a felon.

Well,,,

this guy should get off...
the point of casad, was that he was stopped without any RAS or PC...
this guy was stopped without RAS or PC also.
besides the ruling of casad one must also think about terry v ohio.

the mere presence of a firearm is not RAS of a crime!

And I can see no reason that a gun in a case could be a violation of 9.41.270! Even if he told someone what kind it was...

That is a rifle to be sure, as another said, a Mini 14, not a SBR.

If the picture isn't accurate and it was an SBR that this guy had, that would be an additional class C Felony in this state, on top of felon in possession of a gun.

And State v. Casad is unpublished might I remind, but the fact this guys long-gun was in a case of some kind might just help him, given he didn't give up his rights when contacted, which, it sounds as if that is exactly what he did do.

I don't think this even closely falls within the scope of 9.41.270, being an unloaded long-gun in a case? Not unless he was making threats and showing it off to people.

I do feel the stop and talk sort of speak went beyond what is allowed by law ie when law enforcement started questioning him even though there are mixed emotions on the issue he apparently is a felon and should not have been in his possession.

I do feel officers need additional training when it comes to these matters as to observing a bit more to see if there was probable cause to question him.

Never fear, his attorney will move to suppress the firearm as evidence.

I see it happen all the time on "Law and Order"

This mornings news (fox13) stated that the accused was "overheard by others making a threat of violence". This little 911 call may have alerted seattles finest and given the PC to stop and search.

Man was jailed on suspicion of being a felon in possession of a firearm

This is from Q13 website and appears to have a bit more information and with the Police Blotter there was no mention of threatening anyone.

But the 40-year-old man, dressed in military fatigues when taken into custody on Monday evening, was not accused of threatening anyone with violence, Seattle Police Sergeant Sean Whitcomb said.
Full Story

Click to expand...

Casad was seized, clearly and without ambiguity. Several officers pointing their guns at you tends to make a 'reasonable man' believe he is not free to leave.

It will be some time before we hear the details on the stop, but I imagine the police will claim it was a friendly chat and that they never seized him.

As we keep saying, always ask, "Am I being detained?"

It is a Mini 14 rifle with a Butler creek folding stock. I have one just like it.

DEROS72 said:

It is a Mini 14 rifle with a Butler creek folding stock. I have one just like it.

Click to expand...

Yeah, but he doesn't have enough ammo for it!

If that's a photo of the actual firearm involved it's a rifle.

Per the Q13 article, the officers involved heard him say he had a Ruger and then approached him. KIRO said "A computer check revealed that the man was a convicted felon..." Since they use the word "revealed" rather than "confirmed" they may not have known he was a felon ahead of time. A couple of articles have indicated that he did not make any threats. So I'm not sure what grounds the officers can claim for detention and running his ID. To me, more than one officer approaching me and then asking for my ID is detention, whether I have the presence of mind to ask or not.

I'm not terribly comfortable with the OWS crowd having guns at their protest given their track record on breaking the law, but that's my problem, not theirs. I'm equally concerned about lawful detention, probable cause, reasonable suspicion and so forth. It's going to be interesting to see how this plays out. My best guess is that the guy doesn't defend himself effectively in court and we never find out the exact sequence of events. So many minor details can make the difference between a good or bad bust, both morally and legally.

Wait a minute, if they're playing drums and singing all of the time, does that make it an outdoor music concert? Probable cause!

Flopsweat said:

To me, more than one officer approaching me and then asking for my ID is detention, whether I have the presence of mind to ask or not.

Click to expand...

Be careful. What you consider detention has nothing to do with it. Arm yourself with information.

MSG Laigaie said:

This mornings news (fox13) stated that the accused was "overheard by others making a threat of violence". This little 911 call may have alerted seattles finest and given the PC to stop and search.

Click to expand...

Actually I believe the officers themselves need to witness the threat of violence, not by what someone else says. Such as, my neighbor can't call 911 and say that I am telling people that I am going to kill someone and have the police show up to break down my door. The police can knock on my door, I can tell them to leave and they have to leave unless they personally see any evidence of a crime. Otherwise, we could be doing this to our neighbors we don't like all the time. Think of the beer summit, the police had no right to arrest that guy and legally had to walk away. They hadn't witness any issues.

amlevin said:

Never fear, his attorney will move to suppress the firearm as evidence.

I see it happen all the time on "Law and Order"

Click to expand...

There was just a case about a similar situation ... in that case the felon got off because he refused to cooperate and kept his 4th/5th amendment rights as pure as possible.

Start yapping with them & your chances go down down down.

Hard to say what happened here.

davidmcbeth said:

There was just a case about a similar situation ... in that case the felon got off because he refused to cooperate and kept his 4th/5th amendment rights as pure as possible.

Start yapping with them & your chances go down down down.

Hard to say what happened here.

Click to expand...

Mr. Mcbeth,

It is absolutely not hard to say what happened here.

What happened here is a case of Necromania Necrophilism............someone had a perverse

OlGutshotWilly said:

Mr. Mcbeth,

It is absolutely not hard to say what happened here.

What happened here is a case of Necromania Necrophilism............someone had a perverse

attraction for social intercourse with a long dead thread......​

Click to expand...

The thread was asking for it. Just look at the way it was addressed.

BigDave said:

Casad volunteered his information as well to include I believe that he was a felon.

Click to expand...

True.
State v. Dustin Warren Harrington (social contacts as pretexts for fishing trips) also would come into play. If he wasn't doing anything unlawful, and as part of a "social contact" they seized him by creating circumstances where he did not feel free to leave without actual RAS and then surrendered his weapon and ID, then A1S7 was definitely breached.