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Thread: Law to allow Legal guns in all parking lots!

  1. #1
    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Law to allow Legal guns in all parking lots!

    http://www.michiganvotes.org/Legislation.aspx?ID=141554 . This law would allow legal firearms to be locked in cars in all parking lots,private or public.Looks good!HB 5064!
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

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    this sure would help me..

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Might want to change the Thread Title to BILL as that is all this is at this time.

    This will be at least the 2nd Time this Bill has been introduced, hope it passes this time!
    Last edited by PDinDetroit; 10-19-2011 at 08:43 PM.

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    Regular Member fozzy71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDinDetroit View Post
    Might want to change the Thread Title to BILL.....
    "I like users who quote smellslikemichigan in their signature lines." - fozzy71

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Bill Information

    Quote Originally Posted by HOUSE BILL No. 5064
    October 12, 2011, Introduced by Reps. Opsommer, Rendon, Lori, Horn, LeBlanc, Smiley, Agema, McMillin, Bumstead, Hooker, Heise, Yonker, Shirkey, Kurtz, Daley and Poleski and referred to the Committee on Judiciary.

    A bill to amend 1927 PA 372, entitled

    "An act to regulate and license the selling, purchasing, possessing, and carrying of certain firearms and gas ejecting devices; to prohibit the buying, selling, or carrying of certain firearms and gas ejecting devices without a license or other authorization; to provide for the forfeiture of firearms under certain circumstances; to provide for penalties and remedies; to provide immunity from civil liability under certain circumstances; to prescribe the powers and duties of certain state and local agencies; to prohibit certain conduct against individuals who apply for or receive a license to carry a concealed pistol; to make appropriations; to prescribe certain conditions for the appropriations; and to repeal all acts and parts of acts inconsistent with this act,"

    (MCL 28.421 to 28.435) by amending the title, as amended by 2000 PA 381, and by adding sections 1b and 16.

    THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF MICHIGAN ENACT:
    TITLE
    An act to regulate and license the selling, purchasing, possessing, carrying, TRANSPORTING, AND STORING of certain firearms, AMMUNITION, and gas ejecting devices; to prohibit the buying, selling, or carrying of certain firearms and gas ejecting devices without a license or other authorization; to provide for the forfeiture of firearms under certain circumstances; to provide for penalties and remedies; to provide immunity from civil liability under certain circumstances; to prescribe the powers and duties of certain state and local agencies and business entities and employers; to prohibit certain conduct against individuals who apply for or receive a license to carry a concealed pistol; to make appropriations; to prescribe certain conditions for the appropriations; and to repeal all acts and parts of acts inconsistent with this act.

    Sec. 1b. This act shall be known and may be cited as the "Michigan firearms act".

    Sec. 16. (1) A person who lawfully possesses a firearm or ammunition may transport that firearm or ammunition in a privately owned motor vehicle or store that firearm or ammunition in a parked and locked privately owned motor vehicle that is present in a business's, commercial enterprise's, employer's, or state service agency's parking lot, parking garage, or other area designated or otherwise used for parking vehicles if the firearm is kept out of plain view and in a manner described in chapter XXXVII of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.222 to 750.239a, or otherwise allowed by law.

    (2) A business, commercial enterprise, employer, or state service agency shall not prohibit a person who lawfully possesses a firearm from transporting or storing the firearm or ammunition in a locked and privately owned motor vehicle that is parked in a parking lot, parking garage, or other area designated for parking vehicles in compliance with subsection (1).

    (3) Except in cases of gross negligence, a business, commercial enterprise, employer, or state service agency is not liable in a civil action for damages resulting from or arising out of another person's act involving a firearm or ammunition that is transported or stored as described in subsection (1).

    (4) A person who was or would be denied the ability to transport or store a firearm or ammunition by a violation of subsection (2) and but for that violation would be or was entitled legally to do so may bring an action to enjoin any person, business entity, commercial enterprise, employer, or state service agency from violating subsection (2). A prevailing plaintiff under this subsection shall be awarded costs and attorney fees.

    (5) A business, commercial enterprise, employer, or state service agency shall not discharge, or otherwise penalize, an employee for transporting or storing a firearm as authorized under subsection (1). An employee who transports or stores a firearm or ammunition as authorized under subsection (1) and is discharged by a business, commercial enterprise, employer, or state service agency for violating a policy or rule prohibited under subsection (2) may demand that the business, commercial enterprise, employer, or state service agency take all of the following actions:

    (a) Reinstate the employee to the same position the employee held at the time of his or her termination from employment, or to an equivalent position.

    (b) Reinstate the employee's full fringe benefits and seniority rights, if any.

    (c) Compensate the employee for any lost wages, benefits, or other lost remuneration, including, but not limited to, unpaid leave or furlough, caused by the termination.

    (d) Payment of reasonable attorney fees and costs incurred by the employee in seeking redress for a violation of subsection (2).

    (6) If a demand described in subsection (5) is denied or the business, commercial enterprise, employer, or state service agency fails to respond to the demand within 14 days, the employee may bring a civil action in a court of competent jurisdiction for wrongfully discharging or penalizing the employee in violation of subsection (5). A prevailing plaintiff under this subsection is entitled to all of the remedies described under subsection (5), as applicable.

    (7) It is a complete defense to an action under this section that compliance with this section would necessitate the violation of another applicable federal or state law or regulation. However, this defense does not apply if compliance with this section can be reconciled with the other law or regulation.

    (8) This section does not apply if the motor vehicle is owned or leased by the employer and used by an employee in the course and scope of the employee's employment, unless the employee is required to transport or store a firearm in the discharge of the employee's duties.

    (9) This section does not authorize a person who holds a license to carry a concealed pistol under section 5b or who is exempt from licensure to possess a concealed pistol in a concealed manner other than as prescribed under this act.

    (10) As used in this section, "motor vehicle" means any vehicle that is required to be registered with the secretary of state, including, but not limited to, an automobile, truck, minivan, sports utility vehicle, or motorcycle.
    http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?2011-HB-5064

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rvd4now View Post
    this sure would help me..
    Based upon the wording of the bill, I do not believe this will help your situation with HFCC.

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    From how I understand it, this bill is designed to allow a person to keep their firearm locked in their vehicle in the parking lot of their place of employment not to allow a person to keep a gun in their car in any parking lots.

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    I disagree. The wording indicates BUSINESSES, State Agencies, as well as employers.

    That, to me, means they mean to include Businesses, State Agencies, AND employers.

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    So if that is the case would this allow someone w/ out a CPL to keep a firearm in their vehicle on the premises of a business listed in 750.234d? or would in a manner described in chapter XXXVII of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.222 to 750.239a, or otherwise allowed by law. mean that 750.234d still applies?
    Last edited by Yance; 10-20-2011 at 09:25 AM.

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    Concealed only?

    (1) A person who lawfully possesses a firearm or
    ammunition may transport that firearm or ammunition in a privately

    owned motor vehicle or store that firearm



    if the firearm is kept out of
    plain view

    Could this be interpreted that the gun now MUST be concealed when its being transported?

  11. #11
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    This doesn't seem to include college campuses. Too bad!
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    This doesn't seem to include college campuses. Too bad!
    man and here i thought i was going to catch a break..

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    This bill is becoming more difficult to understand by the second

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    Just what we need, another bill that would only serve to further muddy the waters.

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    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    This doesn't seem to include college campuses. Too bad!
    I think the words "or other area designated or otherwise used for parking vehicles if the firearm mis kept out of plain view and in a manner described in chapter XXXVII of the Michigan penal code,1931 PA 328,MCL 750.222 to 750.239a,or otherwise allowed by law", should cover all parking unless there is law pertaining to college parking that I don't know about!
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

  16. #16
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    The Scope here for the bill is defined for "businesses, commercial enterprises, employers, or state service agencies".

    My initial thoughts on this:

    1. The scope is confusing and should have provided Definitions for "businesses, commercial enterprises, employers, or state service agencies".

    2. This Bill could lead to Equal Protection Under The Law Issues. Example: Employee of a State College could store a firearm in their private vehicle but not a student (assuming that a State College would not be defined as a "business").

    3. This creates a possible "parking lot exemption" to MCL 750.234d (Non-CPL Pistol Free Zones) by "Law of Unintended Consequences", whereas it would be better to simply create one there like MCL 28.425o has (CPL Pistol Free Zones).

    I know that other states have these types of laws, I will look one or two up later today (I believe AZ has a very simplistic one).

  17. #17
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamaneggs View Post
    I think the words "or other area designated or otherwise used for parking vehicles if the firearm mis kept out of plain view and in a manner described in chapter XXXVII of the Michigan penal code,1931 PA 328,MCL 750.222 to 750.239a,or otherwise allowed by law", should cover all parking unless there is law pertaining to college parking that I don't know about!
    The above part you posted is part of a subordinate clause pertaining to the Scope defined for "businesses, commercial enterprises, employers, or state service agencies". Only if a college could be considered one of these entities, would that subordinate clause apply (does not stand alone).

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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    This doesn't seem to include college campuses. Too bad!
    From the legal dictionary at Law.com

    business
    n. any activity or enterprise entered into for profit. It does not mean it is a company, a corporation, partnership, or has any such formal organization, but it can range from a street peddler to General Motors. It is sometimes significant to determine if an accident, visit, travel, meal or other activity was part of "business" or for pleasure or no particular purpose
    So the question is, does a public college or university seek to make a profit?

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Thomas Paine

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    Is this going to cause a problem for those who wish to "OC" in a vehicle though? 28.425c says that you can have them concealed or otherwise.

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    Seems simple enough. a lot less wordy than ours is.

  22. #22
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post



    So the question is, does a public college or university seek to make a profit?

    Bronson
    F****** yes they seek to make a profit. Looking at the cost of tuition, housing cost on campus (must be 20 to live off campus), the weeks where they issue over $10,000 in parking tickets, and the fact people profit off the university, I would say, yes they are a business.

    My concern is that this bill will be like the parking lot exemption under the concealed carry PFZ. While that law says it's legal to have the gun in the parking lot of the university they can still ban it on campus through ordinances. I'm not saying that this bill will not preempt them because I'm not a lawyer, I'm just not sure.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    I dont think it would preempt.

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    Theres a few laws regarding having a firearm in your car or on the premesis of certain places, mostly w/out a CPL that this law will contradict so it will be interesting to see what happens especially if a case arises because of it.

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    Regular Member michhunter's Avatar
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    If this passes dose that mean that you wouldn't need a cpl to have a gun on your persons inside the vehicle as long as it is not in plain view?
    Last edited by michhunter; 10-20-2011 at 05:08 PM.

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