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Thread: University REQUIRES students to show I.D.

  1. #1
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    University REQUIRES students to show I.D.

    Looking at Ferris State University's student handbook I noticed this:
    17. Personal Identification and Key Security
    Ferris students are required to carry their student ID at all times.
    All students (and their guests) are required to provide identification upon request of a University official, including student staff members.
    Additionally a student may not duplicate and/or disseminate his/her student ID or University housing key. It is expected that students will take proper precautions to ensure the safety of their student ID, University housing key, and residence hall room, suite or apartment.
    A student may not use or possess another student’s ID or key.
    My main problem with this is the
    All students (and their guests) are required to provide identification upon request of a University official, including student staff members.
    What do you guys think? Also this is under the students "rights" in the university handbook:
    Student Rights
    Each Ferris State University student has the right to the following:

    The freedom to exercise all his or her citizenship rights, without University interference or fear of University disciplinary action for such activity.
    All the rights guaranteed by the Constitution and laws of the United States and the State of Michigan.
    Freedom from discrimination or harassment on the basis of race, sex, age, religion, national origin, disability, sexual orientation, or gender identity under federal and state laws.
    Information pertaining to his or her academic standing, graduation requirements, and course requirements.
    Confidentiality of his or her records, consistent with federal and state laws, and University policies.
    Join associations of their common interest(s).
    Peacefully protest, demonstrate, or picket as long as it does not disturb the functions or operations of the University.
    Initiate a complaint that may bring about an investigation and/or disciplinary action involving another member of the University academic community.
    Be provided all pertinent information that may be considered part of his or her hearing.
    Not to be falsely accused of violating policies of the Code of Student Community Standards.


    http://www.ferris.edu/htmls/administ...udenthandbook/
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    Looking at Ferris State University's student handbook I noticed this:


    My main problem with this is the What do you guys think? Also this is under the students "rights" in the university handbook:




    http://www.ferris.edu/htmls/administ...udenthandbook/

    i think its crazy, but if they agree to there student code they most due it.. but there is no way for a guest to no the rules and have an id with them.

    schools tend to think they can really screw over people rights.. im hopeing to prove them worng..

  3. #3
    Regular Member steve jaye's Avatar
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    You should talk to FIRE about this and see what they say.

    http://thefire.org/
    "A man with a briefcase can steal millions more than any man with a gun"
    Don Henley

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rvd4now View Post
    i think its crazy, but if they agree to there student code they most due it.. but there is no way for a guest to no the rules and have an id with them.

    schools tend to think they can really screw over people rights.. im hopeing to prove them worng..
    Well they say one of my rights is the ones given to me by the constitution and laws in the state of Michigan but I'm required to I.D. myself to staff which to me would include Ferris's police which are police officers and not security.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    My guess is this is a heightened campus security measure; and if that is the case, I think it's a good move
    Proud Veteran ~ U.S. Army / Army Reserve

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MilProGuy View Post
    My guess is this is a heightened campus security measure; and if that is the case, I think it's a good move
    Well in that case for safety reasons ANYONE open carrying should have to show idea anywhere they are just incase they are a felon with a gun or wanted somewhere.
    Last edited by xmanhockey7; 10-19-2011 at 11:23 PM.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    Well they say one of my rights is the ones given to me by the constitution and laws in the state of Michigan but I'm required to I.D. myself to staff which to me would include Ferris's police which are police officers and not security.
    yea.. see its funny how they say yea u have rights,


    just not not any in the constitution.. look at the letter hfcc sent me.. when i tried to oc on campus..

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    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MilProGuy View Post
    My guess is this is a heightened campus security measure; and if that is the case, I think it's a good move
    <insert Benjamin Franklin quote here>

    All students (and their guests) are required to provide identification upon request of a University official, including student staff members.
    All the rights guaranteed by the Constitution and laws of the United States and the State of Michigan.
    Last edited by Schlitz; 10-19-2011 at 11:29 PM.
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

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    Quote Originally Posted by MilProGuy View Post
    My guess is this is a heightened campus security measure; and if that is the case, I think it's a good move

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

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    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlitz View Post
    <insert Benjamin Franklin quote here>
    Quote Originally Posted by xd shooter View Post
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    Ahthank you.
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

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    u better id ...

    this is what i got for not iding...

    Dear Mr. Kirk:
    I am in receipt of a Campus Safety Office report sent to my office for review and action on September 7, 2011. This report, dated September 1, 2011, indicates that when asked to provide your identification to a College official, you initially refused to do so, but subsequently did comply. Failure to comply with the instructions of a College official is a violation of the Henry Ford Community College Student Conduct Policy (copy attached).\

    Since there was no reference to any other Student Conduct Policy violations, this letter serves as notification to you that failure to comply with the directions of a campus official is a violation, and any future occurrences may result in charges being brought against you under the Student Conduct Policy and Due Process Procedure.
    (evin J. Culler Acting Vice President for Student Affairs

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    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MilProGuy View Post
    My guess is this is a heightened campus security measure; and if that is the case, I think it's a good move
    I'll attempt to clarify my above statement.

    Since 9/11/2001, the majority of the public schools in our area have installed bullet-proof glass enclosures with security doors to close off the hallway inside the main entrance. People from the streets can no longer drift in from the sidewalk and wander around the hallways. All visitors to the school must check in a with the office staff behind a bullet-proof glass, state the nature of their business, and obtain a pass to get past the "buzz-in" security doors. As a grandparent of six students, I appreciate these security measures.

    Most anywhere we go, if we enter an establishment, we lose some of our inalienable rights while we are inside the establishment...such as courthouses, police stations, public schools, hospitals, places of worship, and restaurants. The same laws apply whether we're talking about handguns or smoking cigarettes. If you enter these places you lose the right to carry and the right to smoke while you are inside.

    The Veterans Administration Medical Center in Memphis even takes away the rights of their patients to even bring firearms onto the property. When I go for a doctor's appointment I have to leave my carry gun at home, or run the risk of arrest, incarceration, and a trip to the United States District Court.

    These are the reasons for my saying: "My guess is this is a heightened campus security measure; and if that is the case, I think it's a good move."
    Last edited by MilProGuy; 10-20-2011 at 12:28 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MilProGuy View Post
    SNIP These are the reasons for my saying: "My guess is this is a heightened campus security measure; and if that is the case, I think it's a good move."
    Oh, I think its a good move, too.

    I'm questioning who its good for.

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    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Oh, I think its a good move, too.

    I'm questioning who its good for.
    I feel that it benefits the students to have a safer, more secure campus.
    Proud Veteran ~ U.S. Army / Army Reserve

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  15. #15
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MilProGuy View Post
    I'll attempt to clarify my above statement.

    Since 9/11/2001, the majority of the public schools in our area have installed bullet-proof glass enclosures with security doors to close off the hallway inside the main entrance. People from the streets can no longer drift in from the sidewalk and wander around the hallways. All visitors to the school must check in a with the office staff behind a bullet-proof glass, state the nature of their business, and obtain a pass to get past the "buzz-in" security doors. As a grandparent of six students, I appreciate these security measures.

    Most anywhere we go, if we enter an establishment, we lose some of our inalienable rights while we are inside the establishment...such as courthouses, police stations, public schools, hospitals, places of worship, and restaurants. The same laws apply whether we're talking about handguns or smoking cigarettes. If you enter these places you lose the right to carry and the right to smoke while you are inside.

    The Veterans Administration Medical Center in Memphis even takes away the rights of their patients to even bring firearms onto the property. When I go for a doctor's appointment I have to leave my carry gun at home, or run the risk of arrest, incarceration, and a trip to the United States District Court.

    These are the reasons for my saying: "My guess is this is a heightened campus security measure; and if that is the case, I think it's a good move."
    Do all these places list this as a RIGHT to you?
    All the rights guaranteed by the Constitution and laws of the United States and the State of Michigan.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MilProGuy View Post
    Most anywhere we go, if we enter an establishment, we lose some of our inalienable rights while we are inside the establishment...such as courthouses, police stations, public schools, hospitals, places of worship, and restaurants. The same laws apply whether we're talking about handguns or smoking cigarettes. If you enter these places you lose the right to carry and the right to smoke while you are inside.

    The Veterans Administration Medical Center in Memphis even takes away the rights of their patients to even bring firearms onto the property. When I go for a doctor's appointment I have to leave my carry gun at home, or run the risk of arrest, incarceration, and a trip to the United States District Court.

    These are the reasons for my saying: "My guess is this is a heightened campus security measure; and if that is the case, I think it's a good move."
    Really? Restaurants? I've carried in numerous restaurants, and not had a problem. In fact, I've carried in the Ingham County sheriff's office with no problems. Lansing PD is a different matter, but that's because they're linked to a courthouse. Since I don't smoke, I'm not concerned about smoking. For the rest, that's a continuing battle. As someone who holds a Concealed Pistol License from the state of Michigan, having gone through at least 2 (and probably more) background checks, I think I should be legally able to carry any and every where. Unfortunately, my pockets are not deep enough for me to take that fight to the courts and legislature.

    The VA hospital is part of the federal gov't. Federal government regulations prohibit even state and local police from bringing a firearm on to federal property, unless they're actually in the performance of their official duties. And while I may agree that military bases SHOULD have restrictions, I do not think that all federal property should be a no firearm zone. If my rights should apply anywhere, it should be on US soil, everywhere. Especially when you consider the hoops I had to jump through to get my license.

    The above is mostly just my opinion. I am not a lawyer, nor do I portray one on television. But I have slept in a Holiday Inn Express, at least once.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MilProGuy View Post
    I feel that it benefits the students to have a safer, more secure campus.
    Yeah, we knew that much. One wonders why you felt compelled to reply and tell us all again.
    Last edited by Citizen; 10-20-2011 at 12:55 AM.

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    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Yeah, we knew that much. One wonders why you felt compelled to reply and tell us all again.
    Post count
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    Quote Originally Posted by MilProGuy View Post
    Post count
    Uh-huh. Suuuuuuure it was.

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Michigan is not a "Stop and ID" State unless you are engaging in a Privileged Activity (such as driving a vehicle). To date, I believe that States that are "Stop and ID" have been held as Constitutional and/or Lawful.

    When you enter into a Private Contract such as for Employment or as a Student, things like "Requirement To Carry and Produce ID Upon Request" can be legally part of those agreements. If you do not like such, simply do not enter into those agreements. As part of my Employee Agreement, I have display my Work Badge at all times, show it to Security when required, and swipe in and out whenever entering/leaving Sensitive Work Areas (has my Picture and Name Displayed).

  21. #21
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MilProGuy View Post
    My guess is this is a heightened campus security measure; and if that is the case, I think it's a good move
    You would. But you think all authority is good and for our safety. "Safety is the tyrants tool, for who could be against safety." Think about that. Those that give up a little freedom for a little safety..... Seems I've read this before.

    Too many years in military service perhaps?
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    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    There is no "safety"...its a myth. Safety is a word used to make us all feel better about why rules are in place. And who obeys those rules, people that care about rules, much like ourselves. Any crazed shooter, or someone who wants to kidnap, steal, rob, mug..they do not care about rules and because of that you cannot make an area "safe." ex: Pistol Free Zones and business with no firearms signs and policies...ex: Carson City, NV IHOP their rules to ban firearms to keep people "safe" did nothing but put them in danger because that particular person who entered the restaraunt that day did not care for their rules.
    Last edited by Yance; 10-20-2011 at 09:46 AM.

  23. #23
    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    Too many years in military service perhaps?
    Perhaps.

    It does give one a proper respect for authority and ingrains in the soldier obedience and a willingness to submit himself to the higher powers that be.
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  24. #24
    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yance View Post

    Any crazed shooter, or someone who wants to kidnap, steal, rob, mug..they do not care about rules and because of that you cannot make an area "safe." ex: Pistol Free Zones and business with no firearms signs and policies...ex: Carson City, NV IHOP their rules to ban firearms to keep people "safe" did nothing but put them in danger because that particular person who entered the restaraunt that day did not care for their rules.
    It is true that a deviant miscreant who is hell-bent on creating any form of chaos or mayhem can find a way to do it, but the firearm ban in our public courthouse, for example, and the armed deputy sheriff at the security checkpoint and the walk through metal detector has prevented anyone from being shot in our courthouse. So, I'd say it is working in this particular case.
    Last edited by MilProGuy; 10-20-2011 at 10:11 AM.
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  25. #25
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MilProGuy View Post
    It is true that a deviant miscreant who is hell-bent on creating any form of chaos or mayhem can find a way to do it, but the firearm ban in our public courthouse, for example, and the armed deputy sheriff at the security checkpoint and the walk through metal detector has prevented anyone from being shot in our courthouse. So, I'd say it is working in this particular case.
    No one has ever been shot in my house and I don't have any of those security measures in place. I do however have a maniacal kitten. Perhaps if the public courthouse had a maniacal kitten you would be just as safe.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

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