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Thread: I was banned from Stonestown Mall.

  1. #1
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    I was banned from Stonestown Mall.

    I normally Open Carry. To and from work, at home, and just about everywhere it is legal. In June, I was there with my wife and kids. Half of the mall is in a GFSZ so my firearm was not in my "cell phone holster". It's a blackhawk holster that also seems to hold my Glock 23, perfectly. With that said, empty holster, shopping, and out of nowhere I have a cop ordering me to hand my baby to some woman and I am then ordered to the ground. Long story short, cops were cool after removing my mags and Taser and frisking me. After dealing with the police, security insists they are going to ban me for one year under pc554 and pc602 for an empty "firearm holster". So i shoved my cell phone in it and replied, "that's a cell phone holster, i don't know what you are talking about." What can I do about this ban? The day my ban expires I will be outside of the GFSZ with my long guns if Open Carrying my Glock becomes illegal but I would love to drag them through the mud on this one.

  2. #2
    Newbie cato's Avatar
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    So you were detained for NOT carrying a firearm and had your child seized at the request of mall security? Were you recording? Was the mall security the caller?

    Were you passing out or had available any political fliers? Were you discussing self defense, firearm, or politics with anyone who spoke with you at the mall?

    Did officers pull their firearms or place hands on their holstered firearms?

    Could be some 4th and 1st A issues here. Talk to a civil rights attorney.

    Why were you not LUCC? You could have had you glock with you.
    Last edited by cato; 10-20-2011 at 11:53 AM.

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    What is pc554 and pc602?

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    Regular Member Born2Lose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TaIk2Kevin View Post
    What is pc554 and pc602?
    Penal Code 554.1 "Trespassing and Loitering"
    http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/554.1.html

    Penal Code 602.1 "Penalty for Trespassing"
    http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/602.1.html
    "If I don't have my pistol, I feel sort of naked." -Unosuke Gunfighter in the movie Yojimbo

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    "my firearm is in a secure location"

    @ Cato Is all I would tell the cops. What's LUCC? I do not know where the cops guns were as I was instructed not to turn around and I did not want to get shot. I did not record anything but I have an unsigned ban notice with an alias on it, not my real name. I used the name of their head of security. They gave me his business card. and when asked for my information I read it verbatim off the card. I have emails asking them to lift the ban since no laws were broken which they could enforce the ban under PC602(t) had I committed a crime.I was not talking guns or politics to anyone, nor handing out fliers of any sorts. I was simply and only shopping with my family. My wife wanted some Dansko shoes for work. Sure, shoe shopping with my wife takes two to three hours sometimes, but it was not even excessive loitering by any stretch of the imagination. And I was not recording because i had no idea the cops would be called since my firearm was secure and not on my hip.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Jerry2197's Avatar
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    Hahaha. So you got ban for an EMPTY holster? WTF That is funny. Can they even do that?

  7. #7
    Regular Member Born2Lose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry2197 View Post
    Hahaha. So you got ban for an EMPTY holster? WTF That is funny. Can they even do that?
    "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"

    "If I don't have my pistol, I feel sort of naked." -Unosuke Gunfighter in the movie Yojimbo

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    Regular Member Jerry2197's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Lose View Post
    "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"




    LOL Yea I guess so. That sucks

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    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Lose View Post
    "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"

    Quite right! Jerry Seinfeld had the "right" to go into the store, he had the money to pay for the soup, but...the Soup Nazi had the say-so inside the soup kitchen.
    Proud Veteran ~ U.S. Army / Army Reserve

    Mississippi State Guard ~ Honorably Retired


  10. #10
    Regular Member Jerry2197's Avatar
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    Well you should be able to go back in a few days. I dont think they will recognize you a few days later.
    When I was 16 I was kicked out of K mart in our small town and told to never come back. I went back a few days later no one even noticed that i was not suposed to be there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Lose View Post
    "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"

    How do you enforce that, with or without it posted, without it being discrimination? I understand if you do anything out of the ordinary or even disrupt other guests, but with justifiable cause, it's discrimination. I'm sorry.

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    Regular Member Born2Lose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SanFranciscoOpenCarry View Post
    What's LUCC?
    Locked Unloaded Concealed Carry
    http://gunwiki.net/Gunwiki/RefLegalCaLUCC
    "If I don't have my pistol, I feel sort of naked." -Unosuke Gunfighter in the movie Yojimbo

  13. #13
    Regular Member Born2Lose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SanFranciscoOpenCarry View Post
    How do you enforce that, with or without it posted, without it being discrimination? I understand if you do anything out of the ordinary or even disrupt other guests, but with justifiable cause, it's discrimination. I'm sorry.
    http://www.lifescript.com/soul/self/...imination.aspx
    "If I don't have my pistol, I feel sort of naked." -Unosuke Gunfighter in the movie Yojimbo

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    Quote Originally Posted by SanFranciscoOpenCarry View Post
    How do you enforce that, with or without it posted, without it being discrimination? I understand if you do anything out of the ordinary or even disrupt other guests, but with justifiable cause, it's discrimination. I'm sorry.

    It is not against the law for a private business to tell you to leave or no longer shop. Whether or not they have a valid reason. Its private property and their call.

  15. #15
    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry2197 View Post
    Well you should be able to go back in a few days. I dont think they will recognize you a few days later.
    When I was 16 I was kicked out of K mart in our small town and told to never come back. I went back a few days later no one even noticed that i was not suposed to be there.
    As long as he leaves all his self defense paraphenalia in the car, I'd wager he could go back back in a week or so and not be harassed.
    Proud Veteran ~ U.S. Army / Army Reserve

    Mississippi State Guard ~ Honorably Retired


  16. #16
    Regular Member Lawful Aim's Avatar
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    If someone does remember him they could have an arrest made for trespassing without warning.

    Mall security is an agent for the property owner. They are given criteria for who to ban. It may be possible to contact the office of the owner for clarification or confirmation. If there is a particular store or stores that you enjoy patronizing, the store manager(s) may put in a good word for you. They want your business and your referral especially in this economy.
    Last edited by Lawful Aim; 10-21-2011 at 01:19 AM.
    The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it. -Albert Einstein
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    i've tried that and they turned their backs in the hope this goes away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lawful Aim View Post
    If someone does remember him they could have an arrest made for trespassing without warning.

    Mall security is an agent for the property owner. They are given criteria for who to ban. It may be possible to contact the office of the owner for clarification or confirmation. If there is a particular store or stores that you enjoy patronizing, the store manager(s) may put in a good word for you. They want your business and your referral especially in this economy.
    That's why I want to drag them through the mud. They know they are wrong but won't admit fault.

  18. #18
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    "we reserve the right to discriminate?"

    Without a law backing it, it's discrimination. I carry a firearm to exercise my first and second amendment rights. It is who I am, freedom of expression, and my ability to protect myself, second amendment. I cannot believe that anyone who Open Carries would side with a business that discriminates. There are laws protecting any type of manufacturing, farming, construction, restaurants, and any small business. But a mall? Agriculture, construction, and manufactoring are not open to the public. Trespassing would be illegal. Restaurants and small businesses are protected under excessive loitering. If you "hang out" to make a point, that is illegal. But as PC602(t)2 states, it soes not apply if no law has been broken. PC602.1(c)2 states, this does not apply if a person is exercising their constitutional rights. My wording is off but uou get the point. And if you do not break the law, what can cops do? Security can file a citizens arrest but without a law backing their actions, it would be false imprisonment. Which is a felony! Will it stick, no. But makes for a great threat.
    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Lose View Post
    "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"


  19. #19
    Regular Member Born2Lose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SanFranciscoOpenCarry View Post
    Without a law backing it, it's discrimination. I carry a firearm to exercise my first and second amendment rights. It is who I am, freedom of expression, and my ability to protect myself, second amendment. I cannot believe that anyone who Open Carries would side with a business that discriminates. There are laws protecting any type of manufacturing, farming, construction, restaurants, and any small business. But a mall? Agriculture, construction, and manufactoring are not open to the public. Trespassing would be illegal. Restaurants and small businesses are protected under excessive loitering. If you "hang out" to make a point, that is illegal. But as PC602(t)2 states, it soes not apply if no law has been broken. PC602.1(c)2 states, this does not apply if a person is exercising their constitutional rights. My wording is off but uou get the point. And if you do not break the law, what can cops do? Security can file a citizens arrest but without a law backing their actions, it would be false imprisonment. Which is a felony! Will it stick, no. But makes for a great threat.

    I don't side with them. I was stating what the mall's justification would be. Do you think Paul Blart aka gecko45 wants you scaring "his" customers and be "outgunned"? He's going to say you're trespassing and ask you to leave or ban you. (ohs no's nots a bans! from a mall)
    When the cops show up and tell you to leave with your pistol then YOU stay and exercise your 1st and 2nd ammendment rights and be the "test case".
    When you get out of the clink and start the process of getting your pistol back then get on here and let us know how it went.

    I think we should be able to "constitituional carry" in the mall, in court, in post offices, anywhere we desire.
    "If I don't have my pistol, I feel sort of naked." -Unosuke Gunfighter in the movie Yojimbo

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