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Thread: More concern about HR-822 & the proper alternative, HR-2900

  1. #1
    Regular Member NewZealandAmerican's Avatar
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    More concern about HR-822 & the proper alternative, HR-2900

    I'm posting this email from NAGR because the points mentioned i think are things to really be worried about. SORRY for the exceeding length but i copied from my email account. (Dion)



    H.R. 822 could be taken up for a vote as early as tomorrow morning.

    From the beginning, I have been warning you about H.R. 822 turning into a Trojan Horse.

    Unfortunately, I'm being proven right more quickly than I ever imagined.

    I've been afraid that this bill would be amended to include "reasonable" gun control measures that would, in fact, turn out to be disastrous federally mandated infringements on our rights.

    The response to this was an assurance that, should the bill be amended, it would be pulled by its sponsors.

    Well, I hate to break it to you, but it already has been amended.

    Prior to leaving the Judiciary Committee, H.R. 822 was amended to include the following changes:
    • A "study" to control firearm sales over the internet;
    • Eliminated provisions for states' rights;
    • A "review" in one year -- providing a perfect opportunity for more changes.
    Keep in mind, these changes have been made by a Republican-controlled committee that is part of a Republican-controlled House.

    What happens when it gets to Harry Reid's Senate?

    In addition to the accepted amendments, numerous others have been proposed such as:
    • Inclusion of REAL ID as part of H.R. 822;
    • Banning national carry for anyone under 21 years of age;
    • Anyone labeled as a "terrorist" would be denied carry rights;
    • Requirements for all individuals to provide 24 hour notice to any state he or she would be traveling to.
    I haven't told you the craziest part, yet.

    One amendment proposed would have changed H.R. 822 to allow Washington, D.C. to be included in the list of places one would have reciprocity.

    Guess what?

    Republicans voted it down!

    I guess that D.C. v Heller case didn't mean all that people said it did, huh?

    I need you to call your Congressman right now.

    Tell them that this is not the answer to better gun laws.

    Tell them that this bill will only make things more complicated and, in the end, hurt gun owners.

    Call Rep. Robert Dold at (202) 225-4835.

    This is important.

    Call them as soon as possible, because this could happen tomorrow morning.

    Tell Rep. Robert Dold to vote no on H.R. 822 and to keep the federal government out of your concealed carry laws.

    -- Dudley


    From: Dudley Brown [dudley.brown@nationalgunrights.org]
    Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 1:54 PM
    Subject: Urgent action needed



    Dion,

    Last week I told you some well-meaning, but in my opinion very misguided pro-gunners are working to pass a bill that could turn into a Trojan Horse for more gun control.

    I was talking about H.R. 822, the so-called “National Reciprocity Act,” which could open the flood gates of gun control.

    I’m calling it the National CCW Registration Act.

    While the idea that all states should recognize a concealed weapons permit is sound public policy, the use of the anti-gun federal bureaucracy to implement it is simply foolish.

    Can I count on you to take action RIGHT NOW? Rep. Lamar Smith is the Chairman of the Judiciary Committee that will hear H.R. 822, the National CCW Registration Act.

    I need you to call
    House Judiciary Committee Chairman Lamar Smith and make clear that you want to keep the government’s hands off your permit and that you are opposed to federal intrusion into the concealed weapons permit process.

    Once the federal government is in the business of setting the standards for concealed carry permits, it’s only a matter of time before they start using that power to restrict our rights.

    Now you may hear arguments that this bill doesn’t do that, and maybe that’s true... for now.

    Even worse, once this bill starts moving, anyone can amend the bill with anything... and no legislation can bind a future Congress in any way.

    That doesn’t count what Obamacrats in the Department of Justice might dream up as the “regulations”to carry out the legislative “intent.”


    Gun owners have enough trouble with Republican-run Executive branches implementing the law improperly. Does anyone really think the Obama Administration is going to treat gun owners fairly?

    I know many of you are frustrated that you can carry in some states but not others -- I’m frustrated, too.

    I carry concealed every day, everywhere I go, and have worked to expand the ability of citizens to carry in dozens of states.

    I believe I should be able to carry concealed -- without a permit -- in all 50 states. That’s what “bear arms” means. Believe me, that’s a long-term policy goal for the National Association for Gun Rights.

    But mark my words, H.R. 822, the National CCW Registration Act, will become nothing more than a Trojan Horse for even more federal gun control.

    I understand that many who support this bill sincerely just want their right to carry respected -- but cannot due to the fact that their state or another won’t do the right thing.

    But the devil is truly in the details... and the details are where H.R. 822 gets sticky.

    This bill isn’t just about the right to carry for self defense -- it’s a battle over the role of government and the ability to restrict our Second Amendment rights.

    Once gun owners let the Obamacrats start mandating whether states recognize permit reciprocity, they will want to mandate what it takes to get and keep those permits.

    We’re talking about:
    • More onerous standards to acquire a permit, so that only FBI agents can pass muster (look at New York’s permit system);
    • Higher fees;
    • More training requirements;
    • A demonstration of “Need” for a permit;
    • More frequent renewal periods;
    • Federally-mandated waiting periods;
    • A national database of all permit holders, accessible by Attorney General Eric Holder;
    • An extensive, federally-created list of Criminal Safezones, where only criminals will carry and where law-abiding gun owners are vulnerable;
    • The list of potential problems is endless.
    I need you to call
    House Judiciary Committee Chairman Lamar Smith at (202)225-4236 and make clear that you want to keep thegovernment’s hands off your permit and that you oppose federal intrusion into the concealed weapons permit process.

    I haven’t even mentioned that this legislation would shred the Constitutional Carry provisions that are on the books in Arizona, Alaska, Vermont and Wyoming.

    It doesn’t stop with just concealed carry. They’ll co-opt the bill to expand the national Brady Registration Check system to block military veterans with PTSD or individuals with misdemeanor convictions from even OWNING firearms -- much less use them for self defense.

    I don’t believe the intentions of the bill sponsors are intrinsically bad -- they’re just naive and misguided.

    Many statists in Washington will co-opt H.R. 822 as part of their grab for more federal power and less individual liberty.

    Even now, the statists in Congress are trying to adopt a National ID card, complete with biometric data that they’ve forced the states to conform to their mandated drivers license “standards.” The National Association for Gun Rights has been part of a group of liberty-minded organizations which have passed state legislation forbidding cooperation with a National ID card.

    While many in the institutional gun control lobby will tell you this is a step forward for CCW permit holders, make no mistake, the National CCW Registration Act is a misguided attempt to protect our rights. It’s like asking the fox to guard the hen house.

    They will use this bill as the foundation to create a federal database of CCW permit holders. And then they can link it everywhere the Feds have database connections -- state police, doctors and insurance companies under Obamacare, and Medicaid/Medicare.

    I’m sorry, but I refuse to entrust my liberty and privacy to a “trust us, they won’t do that” approach to dealing with Obama, the gun-grabbers or frankly most politicians of either party in Washington.


    I need you to make some noise, right now!

    Here’s what you can do to help
    It’s imperative that we stop H.R. 822 -- the National CCW Registration Act -- before it gathers steam and support.

    Liberal Republicans and so-called “conservative” Democrats are looking for an easy “pro-gun” vote to give them cover before the next election.

    A Trojan Horse gun control bill like H.R. 822 is exactly the kind of legislation that will get support on both sides of the aisle in Washington D.C. And remember, the Democrat-controlled Senate has to pass it before it gets to Obama... so this bill will only get worse.

    That’s why you and I have to make noise, now!

    Please call
    House Judiciary Committee Chairman Lamar Smith at 202-225-4236 and relay the message that gun owners oppose H.R. 822, the Trojan Horse gun control bill. Make clear that you want to keep the federal government’s hands off the state-run CCW permit system.

    Thank you for joining me in this important fight against the National CCW Registration Act.

    For Freedom,


    Dudley Brown
    Executive Director


    P.S. Please call
    House Judiciary Committee Chairman Lamar Smith at 202-225-4236 andmake clear that you want to keep the government’s hands off your permit. Tell him you oppose federal intrusion into the concealed weapons permit process.


    Common sense alternative to H.R. 822 (carry reciprocity)
    Gun Owners of America

    House Committee to vote on CCW Reciprocity Soon!


    The House Judiciary Committee will soon be voting on legislation that will guarantee the right of citizens to carry firearms out-of-state. And the vote could come as early as today or tomorrow!

    GOA has alerted you to H.R. 822 -- introduced by Rep. Cliff Stearns (R-FL) -- and explained the weaknesses in his bill. Many of you have taken action on our alerts and informed your Representative that there is a better approach.

    That approach has been championed by Rep. Paul Broun of Georgia, the author of H.R. 2900 -- or the Secure Access to Firearms Enhancement (SAFE) Act. The Broun bill has several advantages:

    It would allow residents of California, New Jersey and other “may issue” states to get out-of-state carry permits (say, from Florida or Utah) and carry in their home states -- a benefit they would not enjoy under the Stearns’ bill;

    Broun also protects the right of gun owners in non-permit states like Vermont and allows them to carry out-of-state without a permit; and
    Finally, the Broun bill does not rely on an expansive, erroneous interpretation of the Commerce Clause. Passing gun legislation that uses the Commerce Clause for authority could undercut efforts at promoting Firearms Freedom Act legislation throughout the country which specifically declares the Commerce Clause has no authority over the production of intrastate guns.

    We need to continue putting heat on Congress, now that this reciprocity legislation is beginning to move. You’ve already sent your emails, but now it’s time to change things up and send postcards. If the House committee passes the Stearns bill, then it will probably come to the floor of the House some time next month.

    So there is plenty of time to inundate Representatives’ offices with postcards and mail -- urging them to support H.R. 2900 -- or to amend the Stearns bill so that it contains the gun owners’ protections in the Broun bill.

    So, GOA members, please be looking for the latest mailing from GOA headquarters which should begin arriving this week. And please take the enclosed postcard and send it to your Representative. Then, take the extra two postcards and have pro-gun family members and friends send them, as well. That will multiply your efforts by 200%.

    Not receiving GOA’s mailings and postcards?
    Click here and sign up to become a GOA member today.
    http://gunowners.org/store/membership

    (Dion Wood). MY FREEDOM PAGE[/COLOR] with valuable links to ALTERNATIVE MEDIA, Internet Radio shows and other sites to restore our FREEDOM & LIBERTYhttp://www.QRZ.com/db/KB9QFH TELEPHONE: +1(800)808-KIWI that's +1(800)808-5494 Tollfree. "NewZealander By Birth, American By The Grace Of God." See also http://www.facebook.com/NewZealandAmerican & http://RTR.org/NewZealandAmerican “IN MEMORY OF OUR GOD, OUR RELIGION, AND FREEDOM, AND OUR PEACE, OUR WIVES, AND OUR CHILDREN" (The Title Of LIBERTY)

  2. #2
    Regular Member Large Caliber Kick's Avatar
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    Where's the proof?

    We need cites, links, something to show that your claims are valid. I have searched and can find nothing to support this new information.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Large Caliber Kick View Post
    Where's the proof?

    We need cites, links, something to show that your claims are valid. I have searched and can find nothing to support this new information.
    Here's the full markup of the bill: http://judiciary.house.gov/hearings/mark_10252011.html

    Mr. Moore has apparently learned to be less incorrect about his postings. He's still not correct, he's just less incorrect. For example, there was a proposed amendment to require that CC licenses be Real ID compliant. He mentions that, but then fails to tell you that it was voted down.

    There was amendment that passed, which requires the GAO to basically write a document documenting the CC application process of all of the states, and to report back to the committee in one year. It doesn't specify any actions to be taken or anything else. It looks like it's just a report that the House Judiciary want to read.

    Again, you should vote on this bill based on the merits presented at time of the voting. It doesn't matter what amendments were proposed and voted down, they are not part of the bill.

    This supposed 2A supporter predicted all kinds of dire consequences to this bill, and none of them have happened yet, so he's trying to cover his butt.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcgunfan View Post
    Here's the full markup of the bill: http://judiciary.house.gov/hearings/mark_10252011.html

    Mr. Moore has apparently learned to be less incorrect about his postings. He's still not correct, he's just less incorrect. For example, there was a proposed amendment to require that CC licenses be Real ID compliant. He mentions that, but then fails to tell you that it was voted down.

    There was amendment that passed, which requires the GAO to basically write a document documenting the CC application process of all of the states, and to report back to the committee in one year. It doesn't specify any actions to be taken or anything else. It looks like it's just a report that the House Judiciary want to read.

    Again, you should vote on this bill based on the merits presented at time of the voting. It doesn't matter what amendments were proposed and voted down, they are not part of the bill.

    This supposed 2A supporter predicted all kinds of dire consequences to this bill, and none of them have happened yet, so he's trying to cover his butt.
    Plus, the Washington DC ammendment was voted down, too. They thought it was unfair for out of state carriers to be allowed to carry in Washington DC when the residents couldn't carry, period.

    IIRC, there were about 18 ammendments that were attempted to be attached to this bill, but all were defeated.

  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Duplicate Thread

    Please merge with this one.
    Last edited by since9; 10-23-2011 at 11:56 PM.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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