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Thread: Manito Park OC

  1. #1
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    Manito Park OC

    Took the dogs out like we usually do, had my Glock on my strong side do normal things we ALWAYS do. Decided to walk them around the park for a little bit because the weather wasn't too bad. As always kids walked right up to the dogs & wanted to play with them, parents were having conversations with me no big deal. Came across a groundskeeper who stepped in my way & informed me I had to leave the park, I asked why is that. He informed me that there is an RCW in place stating that firearms are not allowed in the park, I informed him I had seen no signs stating that this was true. He told me the signs were stolen but the RCW is in place, also informed him we had an OC event here the month before & he said what we all did was illegal & if we had informed them that we were going to be hosting an OC event we wouldn't have gotten the gazebo. I told him that he was misinformed & I would be contacting a park official with correct information on the laws.

    Unfortunately I did have to leave, not because of the encounter or anything like that. But because my dogs had noticed my rise in blood pressure & both began to get ready to protect me. So I'm not an RCW guru by far, so I kinda need assistance one what RCW I need to state in my email to a park official. Any help would be appreciated.

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran slapmonkay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fhsantos View Post
    So I'm not an RCW guru by far, so I kinda need assistance one what RCW I need to state in my email to a park official.
    The groundskeeper was misinformed, did you get his name? I would contact the parks department for which owns the park (city, county, etc) and request an informational memo be sent to parks employees regarding the subject of firearms in parks.

    You won't find an RCW stating that carry in parks is legal since RCW's exists to make things illegal. The fact that an RCW does not exist makes it legal. One of the RCWs to call out in the letter would be 9.41.290, which details state preemption for all items related to firearms. Essentially, it makes it so local maniciples can not enact laws that are more restrictive than state law.

    Most of the firearm related laws are in RCW Chapter 9 Section 41, http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.
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    I did get his name, I will be sending several emails out to Spokane Parks & Recreation. I'm more interested in having these employees learn than to be punished for being misinformed by an ignorant employer.

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    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    Have your parks people contact the Lacey City Attorney. The parks in Lacey have no weapons on their signs. I contacted them about state pre-emption and they immediately changed the rules. Here's his info:

    Kenneth R. Ahlf
    City Attorney
    (360) 491-1802
    "The beauty of the Second Amenment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson
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    Quote Originally Posted by golddigger14s View Post
    Have your parks people contact the Lacey City Attorney. The parks in Lacey have no weapons on their signs. I contacted them about state pre-emption and they immediately changed the rules. Here's his info:

    Kenneth R. Ahlf
    City Attorney
    (360) 491-1802
    Like you I thought this was a local park. We have a Manito Park in Tacoma as well.

    I would contact the Parks department and ask why their groundskeeper is asking lawful patrons to leave.

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    Groundskeeper?

    I would have told him to pound sand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by deanf View Post
    Groundskeeper?

    I would have told him to pound sand.
    You don't seem to understand, pound sand or not. My dogs would've taken a chunk of him, then they would have to suffer for it.

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    Do we need to have an OC meet at the Park Bench restaurant in Manito Park?

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    Regular Member SnarlyWino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orphan View Post
    Do we need to have an OC meet at the Park Bench restaurant in Manito Park?
    I'm up for that. Their prices are great! We just need this idiots schedule.
    Keep Calm and Carry On,

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    I've sent a total of 8 emails to severcal different park directors, I'll keep you updated on what goes on. I'll blame this guy for not being educated, but the employer should've been the one to educate him. A couple months back I was also not aware oc was legal, things change. But you gotta teach em for them to know.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fhsantos View Post
    I'll blame this guy for not being educated, but the employer should've been the one to educate him.
    How much education do you think a "grounds keeper" in a City Park needs?? How much is needed to mow lawn, rake leaves, pick up dog crap, etc?

    The only thing that would help is for someone to educate him that his "uniform" doesn't make him a "Cop".
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

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    Regular Member Thor80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orphan View Post
    Do we need to have an OC meet at the Park Bench restaurant in Manito Park?
    Just make it for a Friday/Saturday so i can go!

    -Thor

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    As a grounds keeper I'm sure it is a part of his job to help enforce park regulations. Cop or not, if he were in the right he would have the right to tell me to leave. He's wrong but he sure as hell doesn't know it. I'm sure you've done jobs in the past you're not exactly proud of, I'm not one to sit here & watch another grown man bash another. You'll never win the battle acting like a kid.

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fhsantos View Post
    As a grounds keeper I'm sure it is a part of his job to help enforce park regulations. Cop or not, if he were in the right he would have the right to tell me to leave. He's wrong but he sure as hell doesn't know it. I'm sure you've done jobs in the past you're not exactly proud of, I'm not one to sit here & watch another grown man bash another. You'll never win the battle acting like a kid.
    No.

    He is not an enforcement officer of the park. Can you cite where he is responsible for enforcement?
    Live Free or Die!

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    Can you cite where he's not? Act like a child I'll give you a child answer. Being negative towards those whom think they are doing right only loses the OC battle. I have more good experiences than I do negative.
    Last edited by fhsantos; 10-22-2011 at 05:25 PM.

  16. #16
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    No.

    He is not an enforcement officer of the park. Can you cite where he is responsible for enforcement?
    Quote Originally Posted by fhsantos View Post
    Can you cite where he's not? Act like a child I'll give you a child answer. Being negative towards those whom think they are doing right only loses the OC battle. I have more good experiences than I do negative.
    1st, it's factually impossible to cite something that is not. So the ball is back in your court, please cite where a 'groundskeeper' is responsible for enforcement?

    How am I acting like a child? How am I being negative. Did I say you were not doing the right thing? No, I did not. Please do not call me names or try to say I did things I did not.

    I am simply trying to show you that you will not be able to cite something because it does not exist and therefore, the 'groundskeeper' over stepped his responsibilities within his job description for the city or county.

    You are correct in asking for help with the RCW to follow up with the local park district, which would be under the jurisdiction of the city or county. The specific RCW is 9.41.290 which gives ONLY the State of Washington the right to regulate firearms possession.

    The state of Washington hereby fully occupies and preempts the entire field of firearms regulation within the boundaries of the state, including the registration, licensing, possession, purchase, sale, acquisition, transfer, discharge, and transportation of firearms, or any other element relating to firearms or parts thereof, including ammunition and reloader components. Cities, towns, and counties or other municipalities may enact only those laws and ordinances relating to firearms that are specifically authorized by state law, as in RCW 9.41.300, and are consistent with this chapter. Such local ordinances shall have the same penalty as provided for by state law. Local laws and ordinances that are inconsistent with, more restrictive than, or exceed the requirements of state law shall not be enacted and are preempted and repealed, regardless of the nature of the code, charter, or home rule status of such city, town, county, or municipality.
    Live Free or Die!

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    You seem to be the only one having problems in parks lately. Are you goofy looking or something? I love not having any problems while walking around parks. If I had your problem I would just ignore the worker. He is only wasting your time. Act like he is not even there. Or better yet offer him your cell phone to call his boss or the police.
    Last edited by amzbrady; 10-23-2011 at 02:43 AM.
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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fhsantos View Post
    You don't seem to understand, pound sand or not. My dogs would've taken a chunk of him, then they would have to suffer for it.
    If this were a truly just world, the only consequence for them would be mouthwash.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fhsantos View Post
    As a grounds keeper I'm sure it is a part of his job to help enforce park regulations.
    Having done work like this in the distant past, as well as having hired people to do similar work, it is very likely that he has been told to "Report" any infractions and to avoid any confrontations with park visitors. Unfortunately, some people, when put in a uniform often feel empowered way beyond their authority or ability (intelligence).

    Also, anyone who carries a firearm would be well served if they took time to read RCW 9.41 in its entirety. The Statute is not that long and it covers pretty much all aspects of carrying a firearm in Washington.

    If YOU had, you would have clearly know that the State has preempted ALL local regulation of firearms (with only specific exceptions).

    If you haven't read it yet, it might be a good idea. Can help one avoid situations far more serious than the one you encountered.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Difdi View Post
    If this were a truly just world, the only consequence for them would be mouthwash.
    Or a shot to prevent them from catching something from the "bitee"
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  21. #21
    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Or a shot to prevent them from catching something from the "bitee"
    Unlikely. Evolution itself would prevent it. After all, if a carnivore caught liberalism from biting one, he'd starve.

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    First encounter at Manito Park, had a different one at the Spokanimal Park. I've read the RCW, still not used to just blowing someone off for trying to talk to me tho. I'm not good looking, but I probably do stand out a it. I'm not exactly an average size guy & neither are my dogs. Gogodawgs I apologize for acting ignorant, I understand you're all just trying to give advice for encounters but over the web it makes it a bit difficult to understand where you're all comin from. Thanks guys, I'll keep you updated on any replies I recieve.

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Having done work like this in the distant past, as well as having hired people to do similar work, it is very likely that he has been told to "Report" any infractions and to avoid any confrontations with park visitors. Unfortunately, some people, when put in a uniform often feel empowered way beyond their authority or ability (intelligence).

    Also, anyone who carries a firearm would be well served if they took time to read RCW 9.41 in its entirety. The Statute is not that long and it covers pretty much all aspects of carrying a firearm in Washington.

    If YOU had, you would have clearly know that the State has preempted ALL local regulation of firearms (with only specific exceptions).

    If you haven't read it yet, it might be a good idea. Can help one avoid situations far more serious than the one you encountered.
    Esp security guards. They seem to think they are empowered with LEO authority and priviledges. Those Security on private property are backed by being a custodian of the the property owners. Those on public property are just another citizen in a labled shirt. I saw this video and dont know why he didnt have every security person that touched him arrested for assault. Had he been open carry I bet this would have played out differently.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaS0D...eature=related
    Last edited by amzbrady; 10-23-2011 at 01:56 PM.
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  24. #24
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fhsantos View Post
    First encounter at Manito Park, had a different one at the Spokanimal Park. I've read the RCW, still not used to just blowing someone off for trying to talk to me tho. I'm not good looking, but I probably do stand out a it. I'm not exactly an average size guy & neither are my dogs. Gogodawgs I apologize for acting ignorant, I understand you're all just trying to give advice for encounters but over the web it makes it a bit difficult to understand where you're all comin from. Thanks guys, I'll keep you updated on any replies I recieve.
    I have been to those botanical gardens once, had no problems. Normally we try to stay out of Spokane but wife had to go to a Neurologist and I always give myself extra time when we have to drive 150+ miles.

    Anyway, if a groundskeeper would have said anything to me I would have asked him to show me this RCW he thinks would prevent my walking in the park with my carry.

    No confrontation, just "you said RCW, so now put up, let's see this RCW." I might of added that I had a Dr.'s appointment in an hour, so that is how much time he as to produce same...I may have even offered to go to my car and get the F&W firearms bulletin so he could read all the RCW's that pertain to the carry of Firearms in the state.

    There is no way he could have produced an RCW that says you cannot carry in the park. Why?

    Two reasons, RCW's do not address city parks, anywhere. That is a local thing, not a state thing. And the RCW's that address local governments tell them that they can only set firearm discharge restrictions on weapons carried within their cities, not where weapons can be carried, or not.

    If you go to that park again, I would, I would find that particular grounds keeper and have the F&W bulletin, and educate the guy...might even ask if he just moved up from California.
    Last edited by hermannr; 10-23-2011 at 02:09 PM.

  25. #25
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    My dogs would've taken a chunk of him, then they would have to suffer for it.
    So you can't control your dogs?

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