Difdi
Regular Member
Unlikely. Evolution itself would prevent it. After all, if a carnivore caught liberalism from biting one, he'd starve.
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Manito Park OC
- Thread starter fhsantos
- Start date
Unlikely. Evolution itself would prevent it. After all, if a carnivore caught liberalism from biting one, he'd starve.
First encounter at Manito Park, had a different one at the Spokanimal Park. I've read the RCW, still not used to just blowing someone off for trying to talk to me tho. I'm not good looking, but I probably do stand out a it. I'm not exactly an average size guy & neither are my dogs. Gogodawgs I apologize for acting ignorant, I understand you're all just trying to give advice for encounters but over the web it makes it a bit difficult to understand where you're all comin from. Thanks guys, I'll keep you updated on any replies I recieve.
amzbrady
Regular Member
Esp security guards. They seem to think they are empowered with LEO authority and priviledges. Those Security on private property are backed by being a custodian of the the property owners. Those on public property are just another citizen in a labled shirt. I saw this video and dont know why he didnt have every security person that touched him arrested for assault. Had he been open carry I bet this would have played out differently.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaS0DeuySNg&feature=related
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hermannr
Regular Member
I have been to those botanical gardens once, had no problems. Normally we try to stay out of Spokane but wife had to go to a Neurologist and I always give myself extra time when we have to drive 150+ miles.
Anyway, if a groundskeeper would have said anything to me I would have asked him to show me this RCW he thinks would prevent my walking in the park with my carry.
No confrontation, just "you said RCW, so now put up, let's see this RCW." I might of added that I had a Dr.'s appointment in an hour, so that is how much time he as to produce same...I may have even offered to go to my car and get the F&W firearms bulletin so he could read all the RCW's that pertain to the carry of Firearms in the state.
There is no way he could have produced an RCW that says you cannot carry in the park. Why?
Two reasons, RCW's do not address city parks, anywhere. That is a local thing, not a state thing. And the RCW's that address local governments tell them that they can only set firearm discharge restrictions on weapons carried within their cities, not where weapons can be carried, or not.
If you go to that park again, I would, I would find that particular grounds keeper and have the F&W bulletin, and educate the guy...might even ask if he just moved up from California.
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deanf
Regular Member
So you can't control your dogs?
Never said that, they're stonger than they look being pull dogs. My full grown male tows 8200 lbs on a dog pull sled, my pup is learning to be more trustful of individuals. Come see my dogs, then make a judgement call. Good dogs, just understand that no one should be in my bubble.
amzbrady
Regular Member
Hey is that the park with the merry go round and the steps to the river with ducks? We visited the park in spokane a while back and the cops were riding bicycles. We were limited on time, and wanted to walk more of it. we were only there about a half an hour, didnt have any problems and it Seems like a nice place.
That's Riverfront Park, ran by the same people I believe. I've OC'ed at several Spokane parks with no problems, curious people who wanted to know how it worked. My biggest concern was how this guy seemed to know about our OC event here, & why someone would make it out as tho we were all criminals for what we had done.
deanf
Regular Member
I have no problem with that, but it should be your decision who is ejected from your bubble, not the dogs'. I don't care how much they pull or any of the other particulars. You are implying that they are borderline uncontrollable, and further implying that should something happen, it might not be your fault.
Incorrect, that's how you read it. Not how I implied it, never said they tugged their leashes did I? Nope, simply said they would take a chunk out of him. They know my limitations, if I don't want them there they will know. We went to the OC event at this park, no one had any issues with my animals there EVEN though my male is terrified of guns. He over stepped my boundries, like good dogs they warned him. If they were uncontrollable animals I'm sure there'd be nothing I can do to stop him from attacking. Pretty sure I stated he pulled 8200 on a pull dog sled, I know I can't stop that. You must be able to tho huh.
deanf
Regular Member
Only if you let them. Again you imply that you cannot control them. Either that or you condone violence as a response to a verbal disagreement, and would allow them to bite. Very passive-aggressive of you.
If the animals know who's boss, it's not a problem.
You a new dog owner?
Dogs have always been a part of my life, train with them all the time (especially now being unemployed). You're right, if he had not stepped back after being asked I would have given my dog the voice command to become vocal, after not removing himself from the situation next would be the force removal command. They're well trained, to my specifications & not to anyone elses. Are the mean? Far from being aggressive, my 2 yr old 35 lb son walks my 110 lb dog on almost a daily basis. Around other children, dogs, adults, through stores, etc. Being prep'ed to recieve a command does not being uncontrolled. Uncontrolled would be a pull on their leach, becoming vocal without being told to do so. Had I stayed the dogs would feel as tho to always watch out, if the groundskeeper were to follow me around the park without me noticing they would notice. They would warn me, then the verbal arguement would start all over again. No reason to stay somewhere if they are going to stress my animals out (they're like my kids.) Feel how you please, you'll never know unless you were there. Never know unless you meet them in person. Internet is full of words & pictures, that's it.
fire suppressor
Regular Member
This is not a state RCW but I also like to quote the Washington State Constitution
DECLARATION OF RIGHTS
ARTICLE 1 SECTION 24 RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS
The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself, or the state, shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain or employ an armed body of men
DECLARATION OF RIGHTS
ARTICLE 1 SECTION 24 RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS
The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself, or the state, shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain or employ an armed body of men
Just recieved a response this morning
Rule numer 7 states no weapon of any kind allowed in the park. So now what should my response be?
10.10.040
SPOKANE MUNICIPAL CODE
Codified through Ordinance C34697, passed April 4, 2011
Disclaimer: The City Clerk's Office has the official version of the City of Spokane Municipal Code. Users should contact the City Clerk's Office at (509) 625-6350 for ordinances passed subsequent to the ordinance cited above.
Title 10 Regulation of Activities
Division I. Penal Code
Chapter 10.10 Offenses Against Peace and Order
Section 10.10.040 Public Park
A.No person may violate such rules and regulations as may from time to time be promulgated by the park board or the director of parks and recreation pursuant to and in supplementation of the City Charter and this code.
B.
Except when done in places designated and in the manner prescribed by rule, regulation or special permission of the park board or department, no person may:
1.
solicit donations or collections, such as for entertainment by strolling musicians or other performers, or peddle or hawk any goods or services;
2.
operate any public address or loudspeaker system, or operate any radio or other electronic audio device in such a manner that the device makes extreme noise which offends the common sensibilities and senses of others;
3.
ride, drive or park any vehicle or animal except along designated drives, ways, boulevards or paths; or
4.
move at a speed in excess of fifteen miles per hour unless otherwise posted; or
5.
otherwise operate or drive any vehicle or mobile device, including bicycles, skateboards and roller skates, in a manner which is likely to endanger persons and/or property; or
6.
ride or drive a vehicle at a speed in excess of five miles per hour in Riverfront Park; or
7.
ride or drive any motorized vehicle on the grass; or
8.
park outside designated parking areas;
9.play or practice any game or activity, such as golf, hacky-sack or baseball, involving running or the throwing or hitting of a ball or other missile when and where such activity is or is likely to be dangerous to others or upon drives, ways, boulevards or paths.
C.No person may allow any animal to run at large in any park or enter any pond, pool, fountain or stream thereof.
D.No person may possess or consume in any park any liquor, except as specifically authorized by law.
E.No person may operate any type of watercraft in or upon water within or bordering any park.
F.
No person may in any park:
1.
possess any dangerous weapon as defined in chapter 9.41 RCW, unless authorized by park department rule, regulation or special permission of the park board, park department or police department; or
2.shoot, fire or explode any firearm, fireworks, explosive, bow and arrow, slingshot or other weapon, toy or real, which discharges a pellet or other object with harmful force.
G.No person may camp in any park except at places set aside for such purposes by the park board and designated by signs, or by special permission of the department.
H.Where the park board has provided for the collection of fees, rents or charges for the use of park facilities, including municipal golf courses, no person may enter upon or use such park facilities without paying such required fees, rents or charges.
I.
All City parks shall be closed from eleven p.m. to four a.m., Pacific Daylight Time, or ten p.m. to five a.m., Pacific Standard Time, except Riverfront Park, which shall close at midnight throughout the year.
1.No person may be in a City park during the hours of closure without the express permission of the park board or the director of parks and recreation.
J.No person may build a fire except in designated fireplaces and park-supplied barbecue pits.
K.No person may disturb or attack any wildlife in any park.
L.No person may dig holes in any park or cut or trim park trees or landscaping.
M.Swimming pools, wading pools, softball diamonds and basketball courts may be used only during hours designated by the park board.
Date Passed: Monday, June 4, 2007
Effective Date: Wednesday, July 11, 2007
Recodification ORD C34041 Section 1
Rule numer 7 states no weapon of any kind allowed in the park. So now what should my response be?
10.10.040
SPOKANE MUNICIPAL CODE
Codified through Ordinance C34697, passed April 4, 2011
Disclaimer: The City Clerk's Office has the official version of the City of Spokane Municipal Code. Users should contact the City Clerk's Office at (509) 625-6350 for ordinances passed subsequent to the ordinance cited above.
Title 10 Regulation of Activities
Division I. Penal Code
Chapter 10.10 Offenses Against Peace and Order
Section 10.10.040 Public Park
A.No person may violate such rules and regulations as may from time to time be promulgated by the park board or the director of parks and recreation pursuant to and in supplementation of the City Charter and this code.
B.
Except when done in places designated and in the manner prescribed by rule, regulation or special permission of the park board or department, no person may:
1.
solicit donations or collections, such as for entertainment by strolling musicians or other performers, or peddle or hawk any goods or services;
2.
operate any public address or loudspeaker system, or operate any radio or other electronic audio device in such a manner that the device makes extreme noise which offends the common sensibilities and senses of others;
3.
ride, drive or park any vehicle or animal except along designated drives, ways, boulevards or paths; or
4.
move at a speed in excess of fifteen miles per hour unless otherwise posted; or
5.
otherwise operate or drive any vehicle or mobile device, including bicycles, skateboards and roller skates, in a manner which is likely to endanger persons and/or property; or
6.
ride or drive a vehicle at a speed in excess of five miles per hour in Riverfront Park; or
7.
ride or drive any motorized vehicle on the grass; or
8.
park outside designated parking areas;
9.play or practice any game or activity, such as golf, hacky-sack or baseball, involving running or the throwing or hitting of a ball or other missile when and where such activity is or is likely to be dangerous to others or upon drives, ways, boulevards or paths.
C.No person may allow any animal to run at large in any park or enter any pond, pool, fountain or stream thereof.
D.No person may possess or consume in any park any liquor, except as specifically authorized by law.
E.No person may operate any type of watercraft in or upon water within or bordering any park.
F.
No person may in any park:
1.
possess any dangerous weapon as defined in chapter 9.41 RCW, unless authorized by park department rule, regulation or special permission of the park board, park department or police department; or
2.shoot, fire or explode any firearm, fireworks, explosive, bow and arrow, slingshot or other weapon, toy or real, which discharges a pellet or other object with harmful force.
G.No person may camp in any park except at places set aside for such purposes by the park board and designated by signs, or by special permission of the department.
H.Where the park board has provided for the collection of fees, rents or charges for the use of park facilities, including municipal golf courses, no person may enter upon or use such park facilities without paying such required fees, rents or charges.
I.
All City parks shall be closed from eleven p.m. to four a.m., Pacific Daylight Time, or ten p.m. to five a.m., Pacific Standard Time, except Riverfront Park, which shall close at midnight throughout the year.
1.No person may be in a City park during the hours of closure without the express permission of the park board or the director of parks and recreation.
J.No person may build a fire except in designated fireplaces and park-supplied barbecue pits.
K.No person may disturb or attack any wildlife in any park.
L.No person may dig holes in any park or cut or trim park trees or landscaping.
M.Swimming pools, wading pools, softball diamonds and basketball courts may be used only during hours designated by the park board.
Date Passed: Monday, June 4, 2007
Effective Date: Wednesday, July 11, 2007
Recodification ORD C34041 Section 1
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deanf
Regular Member
That they have made violations of park rules a crime is very significant. It means that there is no possible way they can counter your preemption argument. There will be none of the ambiguity of the "administrative rules" argument.
Because the rules are criminal code, any of them pertaining to guns are 100% invalid and have no force of law.
My approach would be a very simple explanation of the Washington preemption law, with advice to them that city staff seek to have the city council change the rules to comport with state law, and further advice that you will continue to carry in Spokane parks in whatever legal manner you see fit.
Mr. Madunich is the person who will be responding to me from now on I guess. Here was his response to my original email. I informed him of Washington State's Preemption stating that local laws or odinances more restrictive than state are not allowed. Also informed him that there are many of us who will still carry legally in Spokane parks.
Bill Starks
State Researcher
Don't forget Chan v Seattle
http://www.2ndamendmentcourtcases.com/?page_id=89
Lawsuit against the City of Seattle’s attempted ban on all firearms in any public park. This ban was found to violate State law and was overturned.
The attempted ban violated Washington State’s preemption statute where all such legislation must be approved by the Washington State Legislature.
http://www.2ndamendmentcourtcases.com/?page_id=89
Lawsuit against the City of Seattle’s attempted ban on all firearms in any public park. This ban was found to violate State law and was overturned.
The attempted ban violated Washington State’s preemption statute where all such legislation must be approved by the Washington State Legislature.
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BobR
Regular Member
I, for one, can't believe we are having to go through this again. fhantos, if you need any sugestions or help with writing responses, let me know, but it seems like you have it covered.
bob
bob