Just Silly: Police pepper spray Haka dancers at football game

Linky

"Police in a small Utah town are being accused of overreacting after using pepper spray to break up a group of Polynesian men and boys performing a traditional dance called the Haka after a high school football game."

Admittedly, not to smart of the dancers to block an exit. Still, "Spectators, coaches and players told police that everything was fine and they should let the men perform, Jessica Rasmussen said, but officers asked them to make room and started using pepper spray."

So the officers felt like they should break out the pepper spray, anyway? Did one of them need to use the restroom?

I'm perplexed...

"I asked nicely, now if you don't do what I demand, I'm going to cause you pain..... because I'm the only one professional enough to cause pain to another citizen and get away with it"... maybe?

There's a big difference between blocking an exit and performing as folks leave through the exit. Unfortunately we will probably never know which was the actual circumstance.

But we sure know one more place where the cops insist on immediate and unquestioning obedience to everything they say, regardless of circumstances. Disagree with them at your own peril.

But remember, citizen, it's for your safety.

stay safe.

Certainly more information would be helpful. To me it looks like an over-reaction. The article says numerous people explained to the police what was going on. Even if they were inadvertently blocking an exit, I fail to see how firing pepper spray into a large crowd of innocent people is helpful to the situation.

MilProGuy said:

There is another way to look at this.

Had a fire erupted in the stands and an immediate mass exodus of the area been necessary, or had someone collapsed in the stands with a stroke or heart attack and needed to be rushed away to the hospital, it would have been on the national news that a bunch of chest-beating, grimacing, "dancers" caused innocent people to perish because their manly displays of "victory" took the place of common courtesy and common sense.

This is another case of a few exercising their "rights" at the expense of the freedom of others who wanted to exit the stadium and go home, but were unable to because the exits were blocked.

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True. If the situation had been different then the situation would have been different.

No one was harmed by the dance. Spectators felt the police over-reacted. Coaches and players knew in advance and were OK with it.

Damn these people thinking freedom means doing something without a permit. If a monster hurricane off of California had picked up a blue whale and propelled it toward the stadium and everyone knew it except the dancers who might have been deaf and not heard the crowd then many may have died.

ETA: Enough with the not-too-subtle racism.

MilProGuy said:

There is another way to look at this.

Had a fire erupted in the stands and an immediate mass exodus of the area been necessary, or had someone collapsed in the stands with a stroke or heart attack and needed to be rushed away to the hospital, it would have been on the national news that a bunch of chest-beating, grimacing, "dancers" caused innocent people to perish because their manly displays of "victory" took the place of common courtesy and common sense.

This is another case of a few exercising their "rights" at the expense of the freedom of others who wanted to exit the stadium and go home, but were unable to because the exits were blocked.

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It was a small group of dancers, not a cement mixing truck chained to the gate posts.

In case of emergency, or even for the sake of convenience, does it really matter if it was a dozen Haka dancers, or just a group of people who got to the gate first and are waiting to get through?

Jim675 said:

ETA: Enough with the not-too-subtle racism.

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I'm not a racist, and nothing in my remarks should be construed as racist, nor were they intended to be.

Yea because you know if there was a fire the dancers wouldn't have left. They would have just stayed in one place and blocked the exit.

Overreaction by the guys in blue.

And I'll wager there is more than one exit.

MilProGuy said:

There is another way to look at this.

Had a fire erupted in the stands and an immediate mass exodus of the area been necessary, or had someone collapsed in the stands with a stroke or heart attack and needed to be rushed away to the hospital, it would have been on the national news that a bunch of chest-beating, grimacing, "dancers" caused innocent people to perish because their manly displays of "victory" took the place of common courtesy and common sense.

This is another case of a few exercising their "rights" at the expense of the freedom of others who wanted to exit the stadium and go home, but were unable to because the exits were blocked.

Click to expand...

A typical response for an apologist and for you. The government is there to help you, don't question, just assume it all for our safety, even if we have to make up a possible threat.

MilProGuy said:

I'm not a racist, and nothing in my remarks should be construed as racist, nor were they intended to be.

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Hate to say it, but you are a racist. Still not sure what he was talking about.

At any rate, I'm not entirely sure they were blocking the exit, if they were, it was only one of many. They also would have gotten out of the way. No one here would be taking their side if they were blocking the exit during an emergency and I'm sure there are those that would even advocate deadly force depending on the severity of the emergency.

At the end of the day, they were not harming anyone, we're still not sure if they actually blocked the exit, our were just next to it. The police overreacted.


Posted using my HTC Evo

skidmark said:

But we sure know one more place where the cops insist on immediate and unquestioning obedience to everything they say, regardless of circumstances.

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Is there any place or circumstance they don't?

sudden valley gunner said:

Yea because you know if there was a fire the dancers wouldn't have left.
And I'll wager there is more than one exit.

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+1 on both.

Sounds like there wasn't a problem 'til the police intervened in a non-problem.
But if the guys were actually blocking the gate, next time they should perform to one side.
Or both sides.

Jack House said:

Hate to say it, but you are a racist. Still not sure what he was talking about.

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Nothing in my remarks about the dancers were racist.

Jim675 said:

True. If the situation had been different then the situation would have been different.

No one was harmed by the dance. Spectators felt the police over-reacted. Coaches and players knew in advance and were OK with it.

Damn these people thinking freedom means doing something without a permit. If a monster hurricane off of California had picked up a blue whale and propelled it toward the stadium and everyone knew it except the dancers who might have been deaf and not heard the crowd then many may have died.

ETA: Enough with the not-too-subtle racism.

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You obviously don't have a clue about what type of dance they were doing. His description was accurate and not racist. I don't know if he is racist and normally makes racist remarks, but in this case it was a description well used. Perhaps trying to jump on someone too easily for being racist is racist in itself at times.

mohawk001 said:

You obviously don't have a clue about what type of dance they were doing. His description was accurate and not racist. I don't know if he is racist and normally makes racist remarks, but in this case it was a description well used. Perhaps trying to jump on someone too easily for being racist is racist in itself at times.

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It certainly can be! I detest the term racist and racism. I think too much attention is drawn to race where it shouldn't be. Especially by groups like the NAACP. A group I have a very low opinion of.

However in this instance, MilProGuy has shown numerous times to be quite racist. I think the one calling him a racist was overreacting in this case. I certainly saw nothing racist about his post. The accuser probably just associated his description of the dance with his previous posts about those mid eastern descent.

Again, it is an overreaction for sure, but I can hardly hold that against him.

That said, I do not favor attacking someone where unnecessary. So I do defend him here, his statements in this thread, in my opinion, did not appear to have any racial undertone, meaning or influence.


Posted using my HTC Evo

Youtube to the rescue: there is video!

From "Make a hole!" to spraying OC was less than 20 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iv3yL1yNSUQ

KBCraig said:

Youtube to the rescue: there is video!

From "Make a hole!" to spraying OC was less than 20 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iv3yL1yNSUQ

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It also looks like they did move from being against the wall to being in the center of the area. As I did not see anybody trying to get past them I can't say for sure, still, if they were blocking the exit or not.

"Make a hole" may be a phrase that folks who served in certain branches of the military might understand, but it seems most likely to be a confusing instruction in this case where "Clear the exit" or "Move back against the wall" might have been better choices. Nor does either cop I could see appear to be attempting to use any action to move the performers from the center of the area. (And yes, I would expect them to attempt to wade into the front rank and spread people apart. Only if they were met by resistance/opposition would I consider the use of chemicals or pain compliance to be warranted. This is based on 30+ years of crowd-control experience and instruction in same.)

This is why audio (or better yet, video) recordings can be so helpful to either/both sides. Barring a better view of the scene I'm inclined to suggest that anybody wanting to get past could have moved between the individuals performing the haka, and thus that the exit was congested as opposed to being blocked. The performers in the front did not appear to have difficulty moving away from the pepper spray, which supports a conclusion that the exit was congested but not blocked.

Now I'll sit back and let those directly involved sort it out.

stay safe.

KBCraig said:

Youtube to the rescue: there is video!

From "Make a hole!" to spraying OC was less than 20 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iv3yL1yNSUQ

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I saw two people walk through the crowd unimpeded. I didn't see anyone else trying to leave or being blocked from leaving. The video is poorly shot so it is hard to tell.

I still want to know why the officers didn't listen to the students, parents, faculty, or coaches who apparently tried to explain what was going on.

mohawk001 said:

You obviously don't have a clue about what type of dance they were doing. His description was accurate and not racist. I don't know if he is racist and normally makes racist remarks, but in this case it was a description well used. Perhaps trying to jump on someone too easily for being racist is racist in itself at times.

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Nothing in my remarks about the "dancers" was racist in nature.

Thank you for your Voice of Reason.

Let's talk a little about "racism" and cultural appropriation...

The Haka is a Maori ritual dance which originated in New Zealand.

The people performing the dance at this game were Tongan.

The Tongan people have never performed the Haka, and don't really even have a dance the remotely resembles it.

If we want to talk about racism, and racial insensitivity, then these young men performing a dance from another culture because they might remotely pass for Maori is the height of racist, and would be considered by some to be the height of culturally insensitive appropriation.

That is perhaps not enough to warrant being pepper sprayed and beaten, but it is a little sketchy from a cultural and ethnic point of view.

Also, the Haka is usually performed BEFORE important events--battles, funerals, weddings, choosing/installing tribal leaders, etc. It is meant to serve multiple purposes--to frighten away evil spirits, to bring favor of the gods on those performing, to honor ancestors, and to intimidate opponents.

Doing a Haka AFTER a sporting event--especially when the performing team lost--isn't really in the spirit of what the Haka is all about.

I'm not saying that these people deserved to be pepper sprayed and beaten, but they certainly were not honoring the tradition and spirit of the Haka in any way with this performance.