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Thread: Milwaukee WTMJ wrong on GFSZ laws

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    Milwaukee WTMJ wrong on GFSZ laws

    At noon today, Milwaukee TV station WTMJ-4 had an attorney on talking about the Nov. 1, 2011 effective Concealed Carry law. http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/132405918.html Mostly correct, but the statement:

    (reporter Tom Murray) No guns will be allowed in areas like school zones.

    "In court houses," Gumina explained. "In police stations and on school zones (Gumina actually said grounds). We still have the gun free school zone act."
    is not correct about Gun Free School Zones GFSZ in Wisconsin starting Nov. 1, 2011.

    The federal 18 USC 922 is still in effect, but apparently he was unaware, that WIS 948.605(2)(b)1m refers to exceptions for "A person who posseses the firearm in accordance with"

    18 USC 922(q)(2)(B)(i) on private property not part of school grounds

    Furthermore the Wisconsin statute makes another exception, that is slightly more restrictive than 18 USC 922 (q)(2)(B)(ii) , (allowing carrying only in the "doughnut" of the 1000 foot School zone outside the school grounds) for a valid Wisconsin CCW Licensee or valid out-of-state licensees:

    Prohibited from carrying or possessing in a school zone, does not apply ...

    948.605(2)(b)1r. Except if the person is in or on the grounds of a
    school, a licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (d), or an
    out−of−state licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (g).
    I have given them the correct information from the DOJ web page, and the DOJ FAQ, maybe they will correct it.

    ---------------

    The recommendations to concerned citizens, that see someone carrying, to tell the manager, contact police or ask the person carrying, seem out of line, and beyond the law for sure.

    I wonder if that is recommended when you see someone driving a car, that may not have a valid drivers license? (in Milwaukee the odds are good)
    Last edited by E6chevron; 10-24-2011 at 04:49 PM.
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    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    The attorney was misquoted, as he clearly said 'school grounds'.

    I sent an email and left a voice message for WTMJ4.
    Last edited by BROKENSPROKET; 10-24-2011 at 04:11 PM.

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    The reporter, Tom Murray, clearly says "No guns will be allowed in areas like School Zones." The video is on the upper left corner of the page, and can be played now.
    The attorney, Frank Gumina, was misquoted. I have adjusted my original post to reflect that misquoting.

    I did not realize that the Federal GFSZ act is actually more liberal than the new Wisconsin statute 948.605(2)(b)1r. The Federal law permits licensees to carry in the entire School Zone, the Wisconsin statute is more restrictive in that it does not allow licensees to carry in or on the school grounds.

    18 USC 922 (2)(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.

    (2)(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—

    (i) on private property not part of school grounds;

    (ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is
    licensed to do so by the State in which the
    school zone is located or a political subdivision
    of the State, and the law of the State or
    political subdivision requires that, before an
    individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement
    authorities of the State or political
    subdivision verify that the individual is qualified
    under law to receive the license;
    ...
    Last edited by E6chevron; 10-24-2011 at 07:54 PM.
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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E6chevron View Post
    The reporter, Tom Murray, clearly says "No guns will be allowed in areas like School Zones." The video is on the upper left corner of the page, and can be played now.
    The attorney was misquoted. I have adjusted my original post to reflect that misquoting.

    I did not realize that the Federal GFSZ act is actually more liberal than the new Wisconsin statute 948.605(2)(b)1r. The Federal law permits licensees to carry in the entire School Zone, the Wisconsin statute is more restrictive in that it does not allow licensees to carry in or on the school grounds.
    Yep, Utah, for example, allows carrying inside the classroom, with a permit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by E6chevron View Post

    Furthermore the Wisconsin statute makes another exception, that is slightly more restrictive than 18 USC 922 (q)(2)(B)(ii) , (allowing carrying only in the "doughnut" of the 1000 foot School zone outside the school grounds) for a valid Wisconsin CCW Licensee or valid out-of-state licensees:
    Has it been confirmed that per WI statute an out of state license would suffice to get around the GFSZ?
    States donít have rights. People do.

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrjam2jab View Post
    Has it been confirmed that per WI statute an out of state license would suffice to get around the GFSZ?
    WI thinks so. They put wording in the law saying as much. You'd have to check with the Federal prosecutor.

    175.60(2)(d) For purposes of 18 USC 922 (q) (2) (B) (ii), an
    out−of−state licensee is licensed by this state.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    Yep, Utah, for example, allows carrying inside the classroom, with a permit.
    Something e6 should/would know considering Utah ccw in his sig...
    "I don't really care for "cream cheese"..."

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    Yellow Cat's Response

    Not every holder of a UT Concealed Firearm Permit paid attention in the class - or is "on top" of current Utah firearms laws, particularly if the permit holder took the class many years ago and renewed without retaking the class or getting caught up on UT law. Having said that, I can confirm that a UT resident, or any person not a resident of UT, who holds a UT CFP, can carry a firearm, open carry or concealed carry, condition one or unloaded under UT law, within the confines of a Federal Gun Free School Zone including into the classroom within the State of Utah. (The part about non-residents doing so under Federal Law has not yet been tested in the Courts, but, absent an altercation involving Federal Officials, that is not likely to come up.)

    Wisconsin has now indicated that she will be recognizing the UT permit. Thus, to all my students, if you got your UT permit applications in before 9-15-11, you will be in the UT system long before the Nov 1 when the WI CWP Law takes effect. You will likely have your UT permits within a couple of days of the November 1 effective date. If you mailed your application in later, but it was processed before November 1, you do not need to have already obtained a WI permit. Only those UT applications that are logged in on or after November 1, 2011 will be required to have a WI permit for the UT permit to be approved.

    If you took either my UT CFP Course or any NRA Course from me, and you procrastinated with respect to sending in the UT CFP application, PM me for an updated CERT to meet the WI DOJ requirements.

    The Yellow Cat will be returning to WI in early November to visit family and friends. I will post a notice tomorrow and ask students what courses, if any, they want me to offer while I am (briefly) in WI.
    My cats support the Second Amendment. NRA Life Member, NRA Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, & Personal Protection - NRA Certified Range Safety Officer, Utah BCI Certified Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor.
    "Permission Slips" from Utah, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Arizona, and Florida. _ Verily, thou shalt not fiddle with thine firearm whilst in the bathroom stall, lest thine spouse seek condolences from thine friends.

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    Tonight's Six oclock and Ten oclock WTMJ-4 news ran a different story.

    It focused on Shopping Malls posting signs prohibiting weapons.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mlutz View Post
    Something e6 should/would know considering Utah ccw in his sig...
    One thing I've learned on this forum, is that the Federal GFSZ hasn't been enforced even once. I just assumed the Utah state laws were ignoring it.
    Last edited by E6chevron; 10-25-2011 at 02:06 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by E6chevron View Post
    Tonight's Six oclock and Ten oclock WTMJ-4 news ran a different story.

    It focused on Shopping Malls posting signs prohibiting weapons.




    One thing I've learned on this forum, is that the Federal GFSZ hasn't been enforced even once. I just assumed the Utah state laws were ignoring it.
    That's not true. Sometime ago, after discusions with gun rights groups around the country, Nick Clark put out an informative release documenting cases in which they have prosecuted. I regret that I don't have the time to dig that up, but I am sure others remember it.

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    Here's one of the sources, where I saw it:

    Quote Originally Posted by Mlutz View Post
    I agree federal gfsz would still be in effect, but the state level would more than likely "catch" you. The feds would have to come after you for it. And that hasn't happened one time.
    Wis. CCL #5x Springfield XDM 3.8 Compact .40 S&W, Utah CFP

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    Quote Originally Posted by BROKENSPROKET View Post
    That's not true. Sometime ago, after discusions with gun rights groups around the country, Nick Clark put out an informative release documenting cases in which they have prosecuted. I regret that I don't have the time to dig that up, but I am sure others remember it.
    This?

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ee+school+zone
    "I don't really care for "cream cheese"..."

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    Yup! Thank you for hunting it down.

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul
    Yep, Utah, for example, allows carrying inside the classroom, with a permit.
    I want that picture (hint, hint Jim).
    Me, a teacher, both OC & surrounded by kids.
    Wouldn't that just make Jeri's head explode? LOL

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