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Thread: Open Carry Freedom Card For All OC'ers To Carry

  1. #1
    Regular Member Shooter McGee's Avatar
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    Open Carry Freedom Card For All OC'ers To Carry

    so this is something i was writing up for all of us OC'ers with regard to LEO encounters and is totally open to add-on's and improvements and corrections as i am sure there are many of each. if fact, i encourage more for this. please state statutes and cases if possible. this is just a start. i thought this would be good to print out and have on your person at all times, especially when OC'ing. let me know what you all think. some of this was cut and pasted from previous posts on this here forum.


    •- Do you have RAS or PC to make this contact with me? If no then this contact can and will be considered inappropriate, if not illegal under Colo. Rev. Stat. 16-3-103(1):
    In order to lawfully detain an individual for questioning: (1) A police officer must have a reasonable suspicion that the individual has committed, or is about to commit, a crime; (2) the purpose of the detention must be reasonable; and (3) the character of the detention must be reasonable when considered in light of the purpose.

    -! LAWFUL POSSESSION OF A FIREARM DOES NOT CONSTITUTE RAS or PC !-

    -In 2003, the State Legislature and then Governor Owens deemed that the power to address gun violence in Colorado through laws SHALL NOT be in the domain of the affected communities, rather it should rest only in the hands of the state. By this legislation (SB03-25), all local firearm ordinances have been declared unenforceable.

    –C.R.S 29-11.7-101. Legislative Declaration: (1) The general assembly hereby finds that: (a) Section 3 of article II of the State Constitution, the article referred to as the state bill of rights, declares that all persons have certain inalienable rights, which include the right to defend their lives and liberties; (b) Section 13 of article II of the State Constitution protects the fundamental right of a person to keep and bear arms and implements section 3 of article II of the state constitution; (c) The general assembly recognizes a duty to protect and defend the fundamental civil rights set forth in paragraphs (a) and (b) of this subsection (1); (d) There exists a widespread inconsistency among jurisdictions within the state with regard to firearms regulations; (e) This inconsistency among local government laws regulating lawful firearm possession and ownership has extraterritorial impact on state citizens and the general public by subjecting them to criminal and civil penalties in some jurisdictions for conduct wholly lawful in other jurisdictions; (f) Inconsistency among local governments of laws regulating the possession and ownership of firearms results in persons being treated differently under the law solely on the basis of where they reside, and a person's residence in a particular county or city or city and county is not a rational classification when it is the basis for denial of equal treatment under the law; (g) This inconsistency places citizens in the position of not knowing when they may be violating the local laws and therefore being unable to avoid violating the law and becoming subject to criminal and other penalties. (2) Based on the findings specified in subsection (1) of this section, the general assembly concludes that: (a) The regulation of firearms is a matter of statewide concern;(b) It is necessary to provide statewide laws concerning the possession and ownership of a firearm to ensure that law-abiding persons are not unfairly placed in the position of unknowingly committing crimes involving firearms.
    –C.R.S 29-11.7-101(2): refers to the regulation of firearms as a matter of statewide concern and declares a need for statewide uniformity of regulation in the area of firearms. That statute also declares that inconsistency among local jurisdictions has an extraterritorial impact on state citizens and the general public.Id.

    –C.R.S 29-11.7-102. Firearms Database - Prohibited (1) A local government, including a law enforcement agency, shall not maintain a list or other form of record or database of: (a) persons who purchase or exchange firearms or who leave firearms for repair or sale on consignment; (b) persons who transfer firearms, unless the persons are federally licensed firearms dealers; (c) the descriptions, including serial numbers, of firearms purchased, transferred, exchanged, or left for repair or sale on consignment.

    –C.R.S 29-11.7-103: A local government may not enact an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the sale, purchase, or possession of a firearm that a person may lawfully sell, purchase, or possess under state or federal law. Any such ordinance, regulation, or other law enacted by a local government prior to March 18, 2003, is void and unenforceable.
    –C.R.S 29-11.7-104: Complete state preemption of firearms laws except that localities may prohibit the open carrying of firearms in a building or specific area within their jurisdiction and the local government must post signage to that effect at all public entrances to the building or specific area. The Colorado Appeals Court has ruled that ONLY Denver is not subject to state preemption regarding open carry.

    -18-12-105.6. Limitation On Local Ordinances Regarding Firearms In Private Vehicles (1) The general assembly hereby finds that: (a) A person carrying a weapon in a private automobile or other private means of conveyance for hunting or for lawful protection of such person's or another person’s property, as permitted in sections 18-12-105 (2) (b) and 18-12-105.5 (3) (c), may tend to travel within a county, city and county, or municipal jurisdiction or in or through different county, city and county, and municipal jurisdictions, en route to the person's destination; (b) Inconsistent laws exist in local jurisdictions with regard to the circumstances under which weapons may be carried in automobiles and other private means of conveyance; (c) This inconsistency creates a confusing patchwork of laws that unfairly subjects a person who lawfully travels with a weapon in or through one jurisdiction to criminal penalties because he or she travels within a jurisdiction or into or through another jurisdiction; (d) This inconsistency places citizens in the position of not knowing when they may be violating local laws while traveling within a jurisdiction or in, through, or between different jurisdictions, and therefore being unable to avoid committing a crime. (2) (a)Based on the findings specified in subsection (1) of this section, the general assembly concludes that the carrying of weapons in private automobiles or other private means of conveyance for hunting or for lawful protection of a person's or another person’s property while traveling into, or through, or within, a municipal, county, or city and county jurisdiction, regardless of the number of times the person stops in a jurisdiction, is a matter of statewide concern and is not an offense. (b) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, no municipality, county, or city and county shall have the authority to enact or enforce any ordinance or resolution that would restrict a person's ability to travel with a weapon in a private automobile or other private means of conveyance for hunting or for lawful protection of a person’s or another person’s property while traveling into, or through, or within, a municipal, county, or city and county jurisdiction, regardless of the number of times the person stops in a jurisdiction.
    Moreover, section 18-12-105.6(2) provides that: no municipality, county, or city and county shall have the authority to enact or enforce any ordinance or resolution that would restrict a person's ability to travel with a weapon…while traveling into, through, or within a municipal, county, or city and county jurisdiction.

    - 18-12-204. Permit Contents - Validity - Carrying Requirements (3) (a) a person who may lawfully possess a handgun may carry a handgun under the following circumstances without obtaining a permit and the handgun shall not be considered concealed: (I) the handgun is in the possession of a person who is in a private automobile or in some other private means of conveyance and who carries the handgun for a legal use, including self-defense.

    If I am being detained then I hereby invoke and refuse to waive all of the following rights and privileges afforded to me by the U.S. Constitution:
    •- I invoke and refuse to waive my 5th Amendment right to remain silent. Do not ask me any questions.
    •- I invoke and refuse to waive my 6th Amendment right to an attorney of my choice. Do not ask me any questions without my attorney present.
    •- I invoke and refuse to waive all privileges and rights pursuant to the case Miranda v. Arizona. Do not ask me any questions or make any comment to me about this decision.
    •- I invoke and refuse to waive my 4th Amendment right to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures. I do not consent to any search or seizure of myself, my home, or of any property in my possession. Do not ask me about my ownership interest in any property. I do not consent to this contact with you. If I am not presently under arrest or under investigatory detention, please allow me to leave.
    •- Any statement I make, or alleged consent I give, in response to your questions is hereby made under protest and under duress and in submission to your claim of lawful authority to force me to provide you with information.
    Last edited by Shooter McGee; 10-30-2011 at 01:40 PM.

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Well, while most of these are within our rights, confronting an LEO with this up front is antagonistic at best, and can create a far worse situation than if you simply cooperate.

    Unless you like amping up someone who is equally or better armed and who will rarely be penalized for abusing their authority while putting you in serious jeapardy of being penalized should you mix it up with him... You might consider giving this a rest. It's one thing to know your rights through and through. It's a completely different thing to waive the red flag in front of the bull.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Regular Member Shooter McGee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Well, while most of these are within our rights, confronting an LEO with this up front is antagonistic at best, and can create a far worse situation than if you simply cooperate.

    Unless you like amping up someone who is equally or better armed and who will rarely be penalized for abusing their authority while putting you in serious jeapardy of being penalized should you mix it up with him... You might consider giving this a rest. It's one thing to know your rights through and through. It's a completely different thing to waive the red flag in front of the bull.
    after reading some of the stories about LEO encounters on here i thought it would more of a last resort thing once it has been realized that the LEO is going to take this encounter all the wrong way and take it all way too far either out of stupidity or ignorance or blatant lies or whatever other reason the LEO may have the misinformation they tend spew. you know, when all other means of reason have been exhausted. it would be more for when the time has arrived to just be quiet and say no more and once time has come i thought something like this would be perfect to let said LEO know where you are at the point and where you stand. you know what i mean? definitely not a preemptive strike kind of thing.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Escobedo v IL and Gideon v Wainwright are also 5th and 6th Amendment case law, as well as Miranda, if you want to be all inclusive. If this makes you feel more secure, then go for it. Personally, I think it's overkill. Simply stated: "Am I being detained? If so under what RAS of a crime committed or about to be committed by me?" "If not, then I am free to go, if so, then I demand a lawyer and will answer no questions until represented by counsel."
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    Regular Member Shooter McGee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    Escobedo v IL and Gideon v Wainwright are also 5th and 6th Amendment case law, as well as Miranda, if you want to be all inclusive. If this makes you feel more secure, then go for it. Personally, I think it's overkill. Simply stated: "Am I being detained? If so under what RAS of a crime committed or about to be committed by me?" "If not, then I am free to go, if so, then I demand a lawyer and will answer no questions until represented by counsel."
    yeah, i tend to overkill on things like this. mind you i will be OC'ing in BOULDER more than a few times a month and i have heard that encounters with BOULDER LEO is just fantastic. i am a big fan of having all bases covered and if i can do as easily as this i tend to do so.
    Last edited by Shooter McGee; 10-30-2011 at 01:44 PM.

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    Well, while most of these are within our rights, confronting an LEO with this up front is antagonistic at best, and can create a far worse situation than if you simply cooperate.
    And that's EXACTLY what they're hoping for. They want you to be afraid so you'll answer their questions.

    Please explain why insisting on your rights is antagonistic?

    Arrest me or let me go, it's that simple. Anything else is fishing for information that can and WILL be used against you.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Shooter McGee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Well, while most of these are within our rights, confronting an LEO with this up front is antagonistic at best, and can create a far worse situation than if you simply cooperate.
    and the LEO is confronting me, presumably, not me confronting him. comon now, i am not going to run around throwing this their faces, just that if and when stopped and confronted by them it lets them know that i know my rights and i am not afraid to exercise them. and that i do have rights in case they forgot, which they seem to do rather often. you know, forget that i have rights.
    Last edited by Shooter McGee; 10-25-2011 at 02:29 PM.

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    I like the idea of the card, but more as a flash card to carry and practice regularly knowing what your rights are. Being articulate and understanding of your rights will take you further, IMHO, than handing over a card. If the LEO says, "Yeah, so?" or refuses to read the card, you'll still need to be able to speak to your position.

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    Regular Member Shooter McGee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mahkagari View Post
    I like the idea of the card, but more as a flash card to carry and practice regularly knowing what your rights are. Being articulate and understanding of your rights will take you further, IMHO, than handing over a card. If the LEO says, "Yeah, so?" or refuses to read the card, you'll still need to be able to speak to your position.
    absolutely. it can be used as a cheat sheet of rights and facts to study. there's more to add to this, but it could be condensed into 1 page, printed front and back, and could contain a hodgepodge of facts and such an OC'er would need to know if and when confronted. now, like i said in an earlier post, the fact that i will be OC'ing 2 to 4 times a month in BOULDER was my main force for this as i am sure to be confronted and i plan on asserting my rights. armed with the facts and knowledge on this 'cheat sheet' and a quality voice recorder i'll feel good about my chances.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    If this makes you feel better armed, no pun intended, in protecting your rights, then go for it. But I do agree as a cheat sheet--memorized to the best you can, it will be more effective than handing it to some cop who is already violating your rights because of ignorance.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    Regular Member Shooter McGee's Avatar
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    "But I do agree as a cheat sheet--memorized to the best you can, it will be more effective than handing it to some cop who is already violating your rights because of ignorance. "

    yes. agreed.
    Last edited by Shooter McGee; 10-30-2011 at 01:46 PM.

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    Regardless, we need a Boulder area OC gathering. Anyone able to organize one?

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shooter McGee View Post
    "But I do agree as a cheat sheet--memorized to the best you can, it will be more effective than handing it to some cop who is already violating your rights because of ignorance. "

    yes. agreed.
    Same. I only had one encounter where it seemed as if things might go so, so I said, as casually and non-confrontationally as I could, "Interesting. If I recall correctly, however, I..." and proceeded for a sentence or two, near verbatim from the C.R.S., before asking, "Does that sound about right to you?"

    He blinked, realizing he was wasn't dealing with an idiot, but knew that I wasn't being confrontational, either, and we were on equal footing from that point on. I think the latter meant more to him than what I knew. Had I said, "You can't do that! I know my rights!" things would have turned out significantly different.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    He blinked, realizing he was wasn't dealing with an idiot, but knew that I wasn't being confrontational, either, and we were on equal footing from that point on. I think the latter meant more to him than what I knew. Had I said, "You can't do that! I know my rights!" things would have turned out significantly different.

    Insert plus one and thumbs up and "yeah that" smiley icons here since I don't know how to do them.

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    Regular Member Shooter McGee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Same. I only had one encounter where it seemed as if things might go so, so I said, as casually and non-confrontationally as I could, "Interesting. If I recall correctly, however, I..." and proceeded for a sentence or two, near verbatim from the C.R.S., before asking, "Does that sound about right to you?"

    He blinked, realizing he was wasn't dealing with an idiot, but knew that I wasn't being confrontational, either, and we were on equal footing from that point on. I think the latter meant more to him than what I knew. Had I said, "You can't do that! I know my rights!" things would have turned out significantly different.
    well handled. this is the point i am trying to get to as far as memorizing as much as possible. i mainly just want LEO to know that i ain't no sucka that they're going to push around with misinformation which, again, i hear happens rather often. i am new to OC, about 4 months now and these laws are new, so to say, to me. i will memorize as best i can but i will also have 2 of these 'cheat sheets' on my person at all times for reference. and if for nothing else to give to a fellow OC'er for educational purposes should i meet one who isn't fully aware of the law and his/her rights as an OC'er. pretty much everything you'll need to know in 1 page. OC rally/meet up in boulder? anyone?

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shooter McGee View Post
    well handled. this is the point i am trying to get to as far as memorizing as much as possible. i mainly just want LEO to know that i ain't no sucka that they're going to push around with misinformation which, again, i hear happens rather often. i am new to OC, about 4 months now and these laws are new, so to say, to me. i will memorize as best i can but i will also have 2 of these 'cheat sheets' on my person at all times for reference. and if for nothing else to give to a fellow OC'er for educational purposes should i meet one who isn't fully aware of the law and his/her rights as an OC'er. pretty much everything you'll need to know in 1 page.
    In that respect, Shooter McGee, I think your efforts towards consolidating the laws are rather stellar!

    OC rally/meet up in boulder? anyone?
    I will if I can car-pool with someone from the Springs.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    The Cheat Sheet is a good idea but you should NOT hand it to the LEO. Use it yourself and read or peek at it if you need guidance on what to say (or not to say) during detention.

    You might say, 'Officer, in order to be better prepared if stopped, as a law abiding citizen, I have a guide sheet if you'll permit me to reference it or show you that I've taken the time to study up and know the law'. That way you're not coming across as a smart arse, but as a person who is trying to follow the letter of the law.

    I think it should be very brief, though, bullet points, so you can read it under stress. A 'Wall of Text' is not going to be very helpful.

    $.02
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    Regular Member Shooter McGee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    In that respect, Shooter McGee, I think your efforts towards consolidating the laws are rather stellar!


    I will if I can car-pool with someone from the Springs.


    thanks. that first post is appreciated.

    i am in rollinsville at 9,000ft. and if anyone else is up this way or on the way to boulder i have a stretched suburban that can pack many people.
    Last edited by Shooter McGee; 10-27-2011 at 10:09 AM.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Shooter McGee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    The Cheat Sheet is a good idea but you should NOT hand it to the LEO. Use it yourself and read or peek at it if you need guidance on what to say (or not to say) during detention.

    You might say, 'Officer, in order to be better prepared if stopped, as a law abiding citizen, I have a guide sheet if you'll permit me to reference it or show you that I've taken the time to study up and know the law'. That way you're not coming across as a smart arse, but as a person who is trying to follow the letter of the law.

    I think it should be very brief, though, bullet points, so you can read it under stress. A 'Wall of Text' is not going to be very helpful.

    $.02
    so i never really travel without my pack/travel office. i will have 2 versions of this 'cheat sheet'. the shorter, more easily memorized version of the individual statutes with as few words as possible but still thorough. the second version will be the drawn out, more verbatim of the exact wording of the law version just in case things need to get specific or really for any number of reasons. this is not to rip out and shove down the law dawgs throat, more like you said. to show him/her that i am law abiding and i knows my shizzy and i will not be lied to or pushed around(to be said in a polite manner).

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