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Thread: got a quick little question here

  1. #1
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    got a quick little question here

    so, i just turned 18 had my brother who is 31 buy me a taurus pt840 ( love the gun) also he has his concealed carry permit . is there a problem with me open carrying that gun? also my girlfriend is 17 turns 18 in 6 months.i talked to the police officer at my school and said it was fine to have the gun in the car with her but of course i know to have it in the glove box. he also said it could get me in trouble with a "bad" cop her being 17 and me being 18 with a gun in her car not mine. he said something along the lines of it being something intro to a miner. correct me if im wrong with anything.

    so my questions are
    1) can i carry the gun my brother buys for me?
    2) what , (if any) kind of trouble can i get into while having my gun in my girlfriends car who is 17?

    please and thank you for your help

    ps. i live in florence ky if that means anything.

  2. #2
    Regular Member CharleyCherokee's Avatar
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    Your brother can gift you a firearm. You can open carry the firearm regardless of you owning it or not. The officer's assertion is ridiculous. Do you think you'd get in trouble for carrying the gun if you had your daughter in the car? There is no legal backing for it, but unfortunately he does have a point. If an officer wants to he can cite you for anything he wants regardless of whether or not it will stick in court. Some officers are of the mind that you may beat the charge but you won't beat the ride. You just have to know the laws and follow them. I suggest you read KRS chapter 237 and KRS 527. The laws are written fairly straight forward.
    Regards.
    Last edited by CharleyCherokee; 10-25-2011 at 04:49 PM.
    A bullet may have your name on it, but shrapnel is addressed to whom it may concern.
    Why open carrying is a good idea: http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-14...encounter.html

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    Regular Member Johnburns15's Avatar
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    I believe he was saying that the officer told him the gun being in his girlfriends glove box could be an issue because it would be in her "possession"

    And yes, it's completely legal for you to open carry your firearm

  4. #4
    Regular Member CharleyCherokee's Avatar
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    Ah. You were correct. I misread that sorry. The analogy still applies, however. If it were his daughter driving him and he put it in the glove box you'd still be alright. The same as if you were 21 and had a case of beer in the car with her driving. They may give you crap about it, but then again they might give you crap for being out walking around late at night. That doesn't make it illegal.
    A bullet may have your name on it, but shrapnel is addressed to whom it may concern.
    Why open carrying is a good idea: http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-14...encounter.html

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    Regular Member Johnburns15's Avatar
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    I misread it myself the first time lol.

    And all I was trying to say, in a shorter version, that just because it is her car and he isn't technically related to her it (could) cause an issue with an ignorant Leo. Not saying that it will, but just the fact that it is her car, any property in it is, in a way, considered her property. And a Leo COULD say that it is hers, whether it is or isn't.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Johnburns15's Avatar
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    I'm not trying to cause any confusion, but if it was me, and I was in that situation, I would either keep it on my hip, or ask a lawyer his opinion.

  7. #7
    Regular Member CharleyCherokee's Avatar
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    So you can't purchase a firearm as a gift for someone else? I was under the assumption that you could as long as it was an immediate relative.
    A bullet may have your name on it, but shrapnel is addressed to whom it may concern.
    Why open carrying is a good idea: http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-14...encounter.html

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    It doesn't matter if they're a relative or not.

    A person may purchase and gift a gun to anyone who can legally own a gun.

    I believe that gutshot was referring to the way he originally worded the statement, "had my brother who is 31 buy me a taurus pt840".

    That would indicate that it was a straw purchase.

    "My brother bought me a Taurus PT840 for my 18th birthday" would indicate that it was a gift.

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    I always thought that a straw purchase was someone who intentionally buys a firearm for someone that may not otherwise buy one for themselves, ie for a felon, for an outta stater, minor, etc.

  10. #10
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    thank you for all your feed back
    and yes the gun was for my 18th birthday.
    i understand completely what your saying and thank you for your time and responses.

    the gun is a gift for my birthday.
    but another question i came across is that if i have the gun on my hip while in the car if the cop will say its concealed because he can not see it?
    im just going by what the cop at my school told me.
    just to clear things up i can have my gun open carrying it anywhere ( expect the known places where you cannot)
    and i understand i can only draw my weapon if i feel like my life is in danger.
    say perhaps someone is running at me full speed and the person is twice my size could i than pull my weapon?i just need a feel likes cleared up
    i am not stupid with my firearm
    my brother would not buy this gun for me until i went to the range( marks gun range i dont know if you heard of it) and proved to him i knew how to handle a weapon i shot his kimber 45 at the 7yds witch you take your test at and did great no bullets out side the black.perfect grouping.
    just want you to know i am not one of those kids who wants a gun to look cool and feel like a bad ass.i have this gun for my soon to come son and for my girlfriend who will be attending UC.

    also i heard some chat about needed a permit to OC? is this true?
    again thank you for all your help.

  11. #11
    Regular Member CharleyCherokee's Avatar
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    You don't need a permit to OC. A permit in Kentucky doesn't allow you to carry in additional places as is the case in other states. It does make it "legal" to carry within 1000 ft of a school. This is a federal law that hasn't been a sole charge on anyone. It is a controversial law that probably wouldn't hold up on it's own. That being said it's starting to get cold out and I've noticed it's kind of hard to oc a pistol with a jacket on.
    A bullet may have your name on it, but shrapnel is addressed to whom it may concern.
    Why open carrying is a good idea: http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-14...encounter.html

  12. #12
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    You do not need a permit/license to openly carry a firearm, or any other deadly weapon, although we must remember that Ky preemption only covers firearms, so without a cdwl, cities can regulate weapons other than firearms carried openly on the person outside of your vehicle. As far as places off limits, the majority of places listed under 237.110 are only off limits when carrying concealed, not openly, such as police/sheriff dept., meetings of governing bodies of city, county, state, etc. A license in Ky only gives you the optiOn to conceal, however like I said there are more restrictions. "No firearm" signs hold no force of law in Ky, and the other places mentioned in 237.110, such as hospitals, private prop., etc. can prohibit carry, However if you read that section it is not a crime to carry in such places. As for driving in your vehicle, unholster and place in your console or glove box. I wouldnt risk getting a ccdw charge for something so easily solved. Not to mention it would be easier to get to from your console when your buckled in your car seat. Read and memorize every law that pertains to firearms in Ky, you never know when you will need such information.
    Last edited by KYGlockster; 10-27-2011 at 01:25 PM.

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    @Navy At the risk of sounding argumentative, I am still unconvinced. After googling "straw purchase" it seems like you can buy a firearm for "Person A" as long as Person A can legally buy or possess a firearm.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_purchase

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    Then it would be a straw purchase because the person in question is only 18. Said person cannot legally buy the gun from an FFL.

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    Thank you! It was the clarity that I had been searching for. Next question: Do straw purchase prohibitions apply with private sales? It seems like at the most basic level, a straw purchase occurs when someone lies on a 4473. If there is no such form between private buyers, is is possible that a straw purchase could still be made?

  16. #16
    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    KRS 527.100 is pretty vague. If someone wants to push it a minor can be guilty of transporting a handgun even if they aren't in control of the firearm. Unless they have "transporting" defined anywhere else that applies to this section. (On a side note, does it have "he" defined anywhere to include females too? LOOPHOLE!!! [Not legal advice, the law usually states "he" but applies to both male and female])

    And OP, your fears of having an officer argue that a gun is concealed because its on your hip in a vehicle isn't too far out. I had a state trooper tell me I was carrying concealed because my girlfriend was sitting in the middle and he couldn't see my gun. But he didn't pursue it. So it is probably best to put it in the glove box or lay it in the seat next to you.

  17. #17
    Regular Member brekay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnburns15 View Post
    I believe he was saying that the officer told him the gun being in his girlfriends glove box could be an issue because it would be in her "possession"

    And yes, it's completely legal for you to open carry your firearm

    So would the girlfriend get in trouble for it being in her glove box? even if he says that it is his?

  18. #18
    Regular Member Johnburns15's Avatar
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    It's possible depending on the Leo. In court would be another story. How could he prove the gun was his? How could the Leo prove the gun was in the possession of the minor?
    Just comes down to "he said she said"

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnburns15 View Post
    It's possible depending on the Leo. In court would be another story. How could he prove the gun was his? How could the Leo prove the gun was in the possession of the minor?
    Just comes down to "he said she said"
    In court the burden would be on the State to prove that the gun was hers. His testimony in court would go a long way towards "REASONABLE DOUBT " and a failure of the state to prove their case.

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  20. #20
    Regular Member Johnburns15's Avatar
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    I'm not saying it wouldn't be proven wrong in court, just the hastle he'd have to go through with the Leo am then time spent in court

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