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Thread: Feds embrace lying about FOIA

  1. #1
    Regular Member kyleplusitunes's Avatar
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    Feds embrace lying about FOIA

    http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/201...le+Feedfetcher

    The Justice Department is proposing new Freedom of Information Act rules allowing the government to inform the public that records do not exist even if they do.

  2. #2
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    Wow...

  3. #3
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    From the article:

    The Justice Department is proposing new Freedom of Information Act rules allowing the government to inform the public that records do not exist even if they do
    .
    The proposal, published in the Federal Registrar for comment, may codify existing practice, as the government has already lied to requesters of public records that relevant documents did not exist. Under normal practice, which seems Orwellian enough, the government may assert that it can neither confirm nor deny that relevant records exist if the matter involves national security.
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    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Sorry, what's the outrage about?
    The key is the phrase "...if the matter involves national security..."
    If a supporter of Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad requests troop strength and deployment of all troops in xxx country, do you really want that information released?
    If someone petitions all the information regarding the Air Forces new Triple secret XX project, should that information be released?
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 10-25-2011 at 06:15 PM.

  5. #5
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    Slippery slope.

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    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    Sorry, what's the outrage about?
    The key is the phrase "...if the matter involves national security..."
    That's what everything Nazi Germany did was based on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger
    If a supporter of Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad requests troop strength and deployment of all troops in xxx country, do you really want that information released?

    If someone petitions all the information regarding the Air Forces new Triple secret XX project, should that information be released?
    Those are more specific than "the matter involves national security". Those matters involve tactical and strategic defense information, and even then, the elements of such matters aren't 100% protected from public disclosure.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    Regular Member fozzy71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    Sorry, what's the outrage about?
    The key is the phrase "...if the matter involves national security..."
    ......
    I would think the key is the phrase you purposely left out of your quote:

    ...if they threaten to expose national security and for other privacy reasons,...
    That seems to be (intentionally) vague.....
    Last edited by fozzy71; 10-25-2011 at 08:45 PM.
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    I think it's more that we already knew the government did this sort of thing, but now the sheeple are suddenly aware of it, thus the

  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    FOIA has been made obsolete by the bush administration and the obama administration after him (who came in claiming he was going to have a transparent administration). the bush administration started rubber stamping EVERYTHING with either "classified" or "sensitive" thus subverting the FOIA. from what i've heard, the number of classified documents has spiked drastically over the past few years. i'm pretty sure they are classifying their mcdonalds receipts now.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
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    Quote Originally Posted by smellslikemichigan View Post
    i'm pretty sure they are classifying their mcdonalds receipts now.
    Lol, I would too. What with Moochelle Obama trying to tell us what we can and can't eat and all...

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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Slippery slope.
    Well, of course it is! Muhahhahahahahahaa!!

    National security is whatever we government-types say it is.

    Why, the general welfare and national security are so closely related as to be nearly indistinguishable. They're practically equivalent. In fact, they are equivalent. Not only equivalent, but identical. They are the same thing!

    How do you think we got away with regulating Filburn's wheat that he grew for his own use under the commerce clause, or passed the 1000' GFSZ act under the commerce clause?

    Lies, twisting things, whatever we say. The end always justifies the means!!

    Muhahahahahahahahaaa!!

    /sarcasm

  12. #12
    Founder's Club Member Jim675's Avatar
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    General Welfare
    Watches us everyday
    Guarding our country

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    Regular Member StingMP9's Avatar
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    I have always wondered how to process a FOIA request and where this paperwork to do it is located. Anyone want to share?
    "Reason can never be popular. Passions and feelings can become popular, but reason will always remain the sole property of a few eminent individuals."
    Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

  14. #14
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StingMP9 View Post
    I have always wondered how to process a FOIA request and where this paperwork to do it is located. Anyone want to share?
    A simple email will work. You can ask for the information you want, be as specific as you can as they can charge for copies, time, etc..
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  15. #15
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StingMP9 View Post
    I have always wondered how to process a FOIA request and where this paperwork to do it is located. Anyone want to share?
    A simple email will work. You can ask for the information you want, be as specific as you can as they can charge for copies, time, etc.. Below is a letter reviewed by an attorney, modify as you deem fit.

    FOIA COORDINATOR Date:
    POLICE DEPARTMENT
    POLICE HEADQUARTERS
    ANYWHERE, MI 48484

    RE: FOIA Request

    Dear FOIA Coordinator:

    On February X, 20XX at approximately 00:00 PM, Anywhere Police Department Officers XXXXXXXXX and XXXXXXXXXXX engaged in the detention and investigation of a man with a pistol on the sidewalk at Some Street between That St and Another St in the City of Anywhere. As a result of Officers XXXXXX and XXXXX’s investigation, Officer XXXXXX issued citations for firearm violations to You Yourself.

    Pursuant to the Michigan Freedom of Information Act, MCL §15.231, I am requesting copies of documents relating to the aforementioned incident including:

    Any and all recordings of radio communications related in any way to the dispatch, response, or request for assistance by the officers involved with the incident;

    Any and all video recordings of the incident, including patrol car video;

    Any and all documents that identify the officers dispatched to the scene as a result of the incident, including the police report; roll call rosters; vehicle logs; and, audio recordings;

    Any and all emails, memos, letters and/or other correspondence between employees of the Anywhere Police Department and any other person regarding the incident; and,

    Any and all property booking notes, cards, papers recording the property seized by Officer XXXXXX and XXXXXXXXXXXX associated with the incident.

    Should the cost for researching, compiling and copying the requested information exceed $30.00, please inform me of the anticipated cost, and provide me with a time and place for a physical inspection of the requested information before researching, compiling or copying the requested information.

    Please respond to this request by replying to the following address:

    YOUR ADDRESS

    I appreciate your anticipated cooperation with this request. If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to call me at the number above.

    Sincerely,
    Last edited by Venator; 10-26-2011 at 11:00 AM.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  16. #16
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Not that I want to drag dirty laundry through the streets, but the Va VDOT would not even tell if the smoked domes at the Scotland Neck ferry landing had cameras in them or not because it was related to "national security". Of course, that same "national security" allowed them to overwrite presumed - because we will never be sure there was a camera to capture any images - video evidence of an alleged crime.

    The "naional security" blanket of fog can be and is pulled over just about anything THEY don't want us to know about - usually because THEY don't want to be held accountable for something.

    I agree that there are certain things that ought to be exempt from public disclosure, but most of what we would be interested in should not be hidden behind some cloak of secrecy.

    And I agree that allowing the Feds to get away with this is a slippery slope because it will be copied by the state/local .gov entities who will cite "security" at the drop of a hat just to avoid scrutiny.

    stay safe.
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  17. #17
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Not that I want to drag dirty laundry through the streets, but the Va VDOT would not even tell if the smoked domes at the Scotland Neck ferry landing had cameras in them or not because it was related to "national security". Of course, that same "national security" allowed them to overwrite presumed - because we will never be sure there was a camera to capture any images - video evidence of an alleged crime.

    The "naional security" blanket of fog can be and is pulled over just about anything THEY don't want us to know about - usually because THEY don't want to be held accountable for something.

    I agree that there are certain things that ought to be exempt from public disclosure, but most of what we would be interested in should not be hidden behind some cloak of secrecy.

    And I agree that allowing the Feds to get away with this is a slippery slope because it will be copied by the state/local .gov entities who will cite "security" at the drop of a hat just to avoid scrutiny.

    stay safe.
    Did you ever get your "Finger Brandishing" T-Shirts for Sale? Maybe with the sibtitle of "Don't Point-Shoot Me Bro!"...

  18. #18
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDinDetroit View Post
    Did you ever get your "Finger Brandishing" T-Shirts for Sale? Maybe with the sibtitle of "Don't Point-Shoot Me Bro!"...
    I'm not trying to capitalize on the incident so no t-shirts were made up by me. Someone did give me a t-shirt with a pointing finger. Presented it to me right after we walked out of the courtroom with the bright, shiney "Not Guilty" verdict. There might be a picture of it.

    Pretty sure that picture is not restricted by "national security".

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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