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Thread: Open carry in Michigan?

  1. #1
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    Open carry in Michigan?

    Hi,

    I'm a new member - I didn't see an intro page.

    I've been an owner of firearms for years and have had my CPL for 3 years, but I've never carried. I am now thinking of carrying now.

    But from what i've been reading, Michigan is an open carry state - I didn't know this - is this a fact?

    Can someone point me in the right direction of the law in MI regarding open carry.

    Excuse my ignorange, but if open cary is allowed, then why the need for a CPL?

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    welcome. the stickies at the top are a good place to start for open carry info
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  3. #3
    Regular Member kyleplusitunes's Avatar
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    Why the need for a CPL? Open Carry without a CPL is very limited in Michigan, a CPL opens your right to open carry to nearly all public places with the exception of a few.

    Most people who open carry here have CPL's to make their lives easier.

    For example, you can not "open carry" inside your vehicle without a CPL

  4. #4
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    There is no open carry law. If it isnt made illegal by a law, then it is by default, perfectly legal.

    In the case of firearms, open carry is a huge advantage, both tactically, and politically.

    The other biggie no-no with open carry without a CPL, is that you cant carry on the premises of any place that has a license to sell alcohol, (Krogers, Meijers, or the local pub).

    One more advantage of open carry, (OC) with a CPL, is that you can OC in the areas that you cannot conceal carry (CC) in.

    You still cannot carry in federal buildings, most casinos courthouses, places where court business is conducted, or past the secure areas of jails and airports.

    Cities townships etc... are not allowed to prohibit your carrying of a firearm, with or without a CPL, but private property owners can.

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    That's suprising - in all my years in michigan, I never knew OC was permitted.

    So if i'm on my way to the range or to meijers or to the library, I am allowed to OC without question (with my CPL)?

    Then why is it not usual to people OC?

    And why is it of concern to prevent 'printing' whilst CC'ing yet OC is allowed - that doesn't make sense to me?
    Last edited by mssurrey; 10-25-2011 at 10:13 PM.

  6. #6
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    With your CPL you can carry as you please. A CPL gives the option, not the obligation to conceal.

    You will see more OCers as time goes by, it's catching on. For one, you probably werent looking for it, not knowing about it. Ive run into several OCers, although it doesnt happen often.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mssurrey View Post

    And why is it of concern to prevent 'printing' whilst CC'ing yet OC is allowed - that doesn't make sense to me?
    You dont have to worry about printing in Michigan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    With your CPL you can carry as you please. A CPL gives the option, not the obligation to conceal.

    You will see more OCers as time goes by, it's catching on. For one, you probably werent looking for it, not knowing about it. Ive run into several OCers, although it doesnt happen often.
    I honestly didn't know that. So let me get this right: I can do the following legally:
    1. With my CPL I can put on a paddle holster (instead of an IWB) on my belt and carry my gun openly?
    2. Using 1 above, I can get into my car and drive anywhere with my gun openly visible?
    3. Using 1 above, I can go to the range, to the grocery stores (if they allow guns), go to the library, etc but not to the places that are prohibited to CPL holders (eg schools, federal buildings, places of worship etc)?

    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    You dont have to worry about printing in Michigan.
    Again, we were led to beieve on our CPL class that we had to 'hide' our guns and that they shouldn't 'show' even when uner a shirt/t-shirt - so legally this is not the case and I can carry it exposed ???
    Last edited by mssurrey; 10-26-2011 at 12:10 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mssurrey View Post
    I honestly didn't know that. So let me get this right: I can do the following legally:
    1. With my CPL I can put on a paddle holster (instead of an IWB) on my belt and carry my gun openly?
    2. Using 1 above, I can get into my car and drive anywhere with my gun openly visible?
    3. Using 1 above, I can go to the range, to the grocery stores (if they allow guns), go to the library, etc but not to the places that are prohibited to CPL holders (eg schools, federal buildings, places of worship etc)?

    Again, we were led to beieve on our CPL class that we had to 'hide' our guns and that they shouldn't 'show' even when uner a shirt/t-shirt - so legally this is not the case and I can carry it exposed ???
    1 Yes
    2 Yes
    3 Yes and No. You can NOT carry in federal buildings. You can carry OC in schools churches etc.

    Many no, most CPL instructors dont know, or will mislead about OC, as they feel it is a threat to business. In reality, we OCers strongly recommend getting a CPL even if you do not plan on CC. I OC 99% of the time and I have a CPL.

    You can OC with a CPL except for federal buildings, most casinos, sterile areas of airports and jails, and in buildings where court business is conducted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    You can OC with a CPL except for federal buildings, most casinos, sterile areas of airports and jails, and in buildings where court business is conducted.
    I can OC in schools ???? I would have thought that was a big No-No (and not that I would want to anyway).

    What would come under federal buildings - courts? sec of state offices? what about our local police station (now that would be funny to see the look on their eyes when i next go to hand in paperwork for my next purchase!!!)?

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    Generally, you can open carry in Michigan ON FOOT with out a CPL anywhere that isn't a pistol free zone or that sells any alcohol. However, there are three main benefits to having a CPL in Michigan, even if you're going to open carry anyway:
    (1) The CPL allows you to carry in a motor vehicle (carry in a vehicle, concealed or not, without a CPL is a FELONY, unless it's in the trunk or locked box if no trunk)
    (2) The CPL allows you to carry where alcohol is sold (without a CPL, you legally can't even leave your gun in the truck of a car in the parking lot of Wal-Mart)
    (3) The CPL allows you to carry OPENLY in certain pistol-free zones (CHECK A LAWYER ON THIS ONE!!!). You still can't carry in federal buildings, and probably can't carry at all on K-12 school property. Technically, a CPL allows you carry OPENLY (but not concealed) on college campuses, stadiums with 3000+ people, hospitals, etc. Beware, though, that this is generally VERY FROWNED on, and will probably get you kicked out of whatever pistol free zone in which you're carrying.
    "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty."
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    Quote Originally Posted by mssurrey View Post
    I can OC in schools ???? I would have thought that was a big No-No (and not that I would want to anyway).

    What would come under federal buildings - courts? sec of state offices? what about our local police station (now that would be funny to see the look on their eyes when i next go to hand in paperwork for my next purchase!!!)?
    Yes, you can OC in schools, as well, you should. They arent teaching the kids, so its up to us. They might give you a hard time, possibly ask you to leave, but several people from here OC in schools regularly. We are thier ONLY line of defense, there is simply nobody else that stands between the kids and a gunman.

    Courts are off limits anyhow, but the buildings are usually state. Ive OCed at sec of state offices no problem. PDs ok, state police can be hit or miss. Oakland County has a no guns sign, but it isnt enforceable. I'll cite the law that explains:

    123.1102 Regulation of pistols or other firearms.
    Sec. 2.
    A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.

    123.1101 Definitions.
    Sec. 1.
    As used in this act:
    (a) “Local unit of government” means a city, village, township, or county.
    (b) “Pistol” means that term as defined in section 222 of the Michigan penal code, Act No. 328 of the Public Acts of 1931, being section 750.222 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

  13. #13
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    Nascar is close, but he's also from Tennessee

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    What about the changes to the laws regarding state parks, national forests etc? can we OC there?

  15. #15
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    Yes, but you can't go into the buildings. You are allowed to use the outhouses. (thankfully)

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    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    I have OC'd (with CPL) in Schools, Banks, Hospitals, Police Departments, Churches, The State Capital Building, and Secratary of State. Make sure to stay out of Fedral Buildings (including the post office, this is a grey area to some, but don't be a test case), casinos, and Court houses.

    Welcome to OCDO!
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  17. #17
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    There is no open carry law. If it isnt made illegal by a law, then it is by default, perfectly legal.

    In the case of firearms, open carry is a huge advantage, both tactically, and politically.

    The other biggie no-no with open carry without a CPL, is that you cant carry on the premises of any place that has a license to sell alcohol, (Krogers, Meijers, or the local pub).

    One more advantage of open carry, (OC) with a CPL, is that you can OC in the areas that you cannot conceal carry (CC) in.

    You still cannot carry in federal buildings, most casinos courthouses, places where court business is conducted, or past the secure areas of jails and airports.

    Cities townships etc... are not allowed to prohibit your carrying of a firearm, with or without a CPL, but private property owners can.
    Please see MCL 28.422, that is actually the MI Open Carry Law.

    Good job on welcoming the newbie.

    Carry On!

  18. #18
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Yes, but you can't go into the buildings. You are allowed to use the outhouses. (thankfully)
    I believe that the above only applies to National Parks, as MCL 324.504 would prevent the MI DNR from regulating carry for Personal Protection.

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    Thumbs up

    Thanks PD.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nascar24Glock View Post
    Generally, you can open carry in Michigan ON FOOT with out a CPL anywhere that isn't a pistol free zone or that sells any alcohol. However, there are three main benefits to having a CPL in Michigan, even if you're going to open carry anyway:
    (1) The CPL allows you to carry in a motor vehicle (carry in a vehicle, concealed or not, without a CPL is a FELONY, unless it's in the trunk or locked box if no trunk)
    (2) The CPL allows you to carry where alcohol is sold (without a CPL, you legally can't even leave your gun in the truck of a car in the parking lot of Wal-Mart)
    (3) The CPL allows you to carry OPENLY in certain pistol-free zones (CHECK A LAWYER ON THIS ONE!!!). You still can't carry in federal buildings, and probably can't carry at all on K-12 school property. Technically, a CPL allows you carry OPENLY (but not concealed) on college campuses, stadiums with 3000+ people, hospitals, etc. Beware, though, that this is generally VERY FROWNED on, and will probably get you kicked out of whatever pistol free zone in which you're carrying.
    1. Almost true. There is no requirement in Michigan to have the gun locked up while transporting without a CPL. It must be in an enclosed case designed for a pistol in the trunk. If you do not have one it must not be "accessible".
    2. True. Of course unless you have permission.
    3. First part is true. True you can't carry in federal buildings, but you can carry in a school. Tech you can concealed carry on a college campus if you don't go into the dorms or classrooms but school can create ordinances against guns on their campus period. Even in parking lots, so it's best to stay away from them all together unless you do your research. You may also open carry in an entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500 or more. While we have had OCers thrown out of such places it would be ridiculous for you to not engage in a right in something which is already legal. When I went to the Portage Police to get a "license to purchase, carry, possess, or transport pistol", I open carried my already registered Glock 22. One woman who worked there (I don't even know if she was a cop) did her best to make me admit to committing a crime and tried to discourage me from carrying there. "Do you think it's wise to carry in a police station?" Well actually yes I do! Everyone else there has one, why shouldn't I have mine?
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    Wait.....

    So, if I come home, and open carry while Im there, and an officer approaches me and requests ID and permit to carry, I am required by law to do so?


    If I am reading this wrong, please enlighten me.

    (9) An individual who is a nonresident of this state shall present the license described in subsection (8)(a) upon the demand of a police officer. An individual who violates this subsection is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker6900 View Post
    So, if I come home, and open carry while Im there, and an officer approaches me and requests ID and permit to carry, I am required by law to do so?


    If I am reading this wrong, please enlighten me.
    Where did you find this? I'll look it up.

    EDIT: nvm found it
    Last edited by xmanhockey7; 10-26-2011 at 10:30 AM.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  23. #23
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Lets break this law down.
    (9) An individual who is a nonresident of this state shall present the license described in subsection (8)(a)
    upon the demand of a police officer. An individual who violates this subsection is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.
    This is interesting. When you look at subsection 8a
    (8) An individual who is not a resident of this state is not required to obtain a license under this section if all of the following conditions apply:
    (a) The individual is licensed in his or her state of residence to purchase, carry, or transport a pistol.
    it says you need a license from your state of residence. While this is still under 28.422, the Janet Kukuk changed this.
    28.432 Inapplicability of MCL 28.422; amendatory act as “Janet Kukuk act”.
    Sec. 12. (1) Section 2 does not apply to any of the following:
    (f) A United States citizen holding a license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by
    another state.
    The way I see it, and IANAL, is that the Janet Kukuk act exempts you from 28.422 completely as long as you have a license from any state to carry a concealed pistol and would make it so you do not need to present license. You have brought up an interesting part of that law though.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDinDetroit View Post
    I believe that the above only applies to National Parks, as MCL 324.504 would prevent the MI DNR from regulating carry for Personal Protection.
    I didn't understand that. MCL 324.504 allows (or at least prevents MI DNR from regulating) OC in State Parks but doesn't apply to NPs - is that correct?

  25. #25
    Regular Member HKcarrier's Avatar
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    You mention OCing in the library.. heh.. ummm... yeah, about that.. Make sure you don't try to OC in the Capital Area District LIbrary... ;
    When you put the gun in the holster, put the ego in the gun safe.

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