What exactly constitutes "your property" in MD?

skidmark said:

Since we have veered this far off topic without any real complaint, let's see if we can put the thread veer to rest.

Rather than hash over history and how the alleged reputation(s) were earned, I'm going to give you the opportunity to document how MSI (the only organization I am aware you have the authority to speak for) has a) reached out for or b) embraced an offer of support from an out-of-state organization. The only restriction I place on this is that you not use examples of asking some other organization to be the major funder of a lawsuit.

This way you can show how MSI operates and that any retutation it might have earned (prior to or since 2004) has been overcome, and I can avoid violating the OCDO rules. Sounds like a win-win offer. What do you say?

stay safe.

Click to expand...

•Philip Van Cleave from VCDL has been up to our meetings.

•I was on the phone last night with Dave Vann from Virginia about a brief that we are working on for Masciandaro.

•Been working with a Virginia firearms instructor who works the VA gun show circuit to distribute information for us.

•Made sure that a certain Virginia resident who was being railroaded on trumped firearms charges was financially supported in his legal defense
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=47469&highlight=skidmark

•Vigorously supported two reciprocity bills that would have done nothing for Maryland residents but would have benefitted the residents of our neighboring states.

•Attended the Students for Concealed Carry on Campus conference at the National Press Club in DC and spoke with Dr. Lott, Mr. Heller and some of the VCDL folks about things we could work on.

•Would have been represented at the Gun Rights Policy Conference if our representative had not had a major defense contract blow up in his face.

•Regularly participating in conversations with representatives of organizations in Texas, Oregon, Florida, Montana, Utah, Minnesota, Virginia, Ohio, South Carolina and probably some others that I've missed.

•Co-sponsored an amicus on McDonald with the following:
GUN OWNERS OF AMERICA, INC.,
GUN OWNERS FOUNDATION,
GUN OWNERS OF CALIFORNIA, INC.,
DOWNSIZEDC.ORG,
CONSERVATIVE LEGAL DEFENSE AND EDUCATION FUND,
THE LINCOLN INSTITUTE FOR RESEARCH AND EDUCATION,
U.S. BORDER CONTROL,
U.S. BORDER CONTROL FOUNDATION

•Co-sponsored a brief in support of Heller II along with:
Gun Owners of America, Inc.,
Gun Owners Foundation,
Virginia Citizens Defense League,
Gun Owners of California, Inc.,
Lincoln Institute for Research and Education, and
Conservative Legal Defense and Education Fund

•Co-sponsored a brief on OCDO's very own Grey Peterson's case along with:
SECOND AMENDMENT FOUNDATION, INC.,
BUCKEYE FIREARMS FOUNDATION,
CITIZENS' RIGHTS ACTION LEAGUE,
COMMONWEALTH SECOND AMENDMENT,
CONNECTICUT CITIZENS DEFENSE LEAGUE,
CALGUNS FOUNDATION, INC.,
GUN OWNERS CIVIL RIGHTS ALLIANCE,
HAWAII DEFENSE FOUNDATION,
ILLINOIS CARRY,
ILLINOIS STATE RIFLE ASSOCIATION,
MAINE OPEN CARRY ASSOCIATION,
OREGON FIREARMS EDUCATIONAL FOUNDATION,
WISCONSIN CARRY, INC.,
SCOPE, INC.,
STILLWATER FIREARMS ASSOCIATION,
VIRGINIA CITIZENS DEFENSE LEAGUE, INC.,
WEST VIRGINIA CITIZENS DEFENSE LEAGUE, INC

Nearly every incident you listed involved either a certain MD org writing checks to other orgs/people or courting out-of-staters to write checks to said MD org.

I understand that in the PRM, money is the grease that sets the corrupt gears of the Annapolis Oligarchy to turning, but I wonder if participating in the system of "tribute for perks" is really the way to go? I mean really, how's that working out for ya so far?...

What about public outreach? What about education? What about large-scale public protests?

Oh, but that would mean that gun rights people in MD might be "blackballed" by their lucrative military-industrial complex employers and threatened with loss of their prescious security clearances, or even their jobs in the industry of death, tyranny and corruption.

How about if every single member of some un-named MD 2A org would just wear an empty holster whenever they went about their daily business after they got off work--EVERY DAY? What about public outreach on an individual basis, discussing the fundamental human right to self-defense? What about just sending an email link to the text of the "Warren v. District of Columbia" to every anti-gun person they know in MD, or just shout out "Warren V. District of Columbia" at press conferences every time some MD politico spreads the lie that police are there to protect you?

What about publicly confronting Brian Frosh, Babs Mikulski and other virulently anti-2A MD State and Federal Senators and Reps about their own MD Carry Permits EVERY SINGLE TIME they appear in public, to expose their elitism, their duplicity, and their brazen disdain for the sanctity of the lives of their "constituents"?

Oh, no, those sort of suggestions got ME "banned for life" from an un-named MD 2A forum, and got me treated like I was some sort of Soviet Spy when I attended a meeting of an un-named MD 2A org last year. The reason I was given for my treatment was that "actions like that work against our cause, because the State will just retaliate against us with even more draconian measures..."

My response to that is "Grow a few vertebrae..."

Franklin was right--A people DO get the government they deserve, and it is my opinion that the People of Maryland DESERVE the gun laws they have because they have, for the most part, proven themselves to be so utterly cowed by their tyrannical overlords, and so inseparably enmeshed with the corrupt system of governance in their state that they are incapable of acting in any sort of libertine manner, and are too enslaved by the almighty Teat of their Government Paychecks to even consider any sort of peaceful civil disobedience.

I don't blame the 2A orgs or the 2A forums in MD for their attitudes. They are the victims of over 2 centuries of elitism, oligarchy, corruption and graft. They have come into existence in an environment and culture so bereft of honor and integrity and so pervasively inculcated with zenophobia and propaganda that the only way they know to function is through intimidation, bakshesh, and exclusionary dynamics.

I pity them more than I dislike them, really.

So don't worry, Skid, and anyone else in the contiguous states of the PRM. When you are ostracized, demonized, and STILL they come begging for money to "help the cause", they REALLY can't help themselves. Just keep fighting the good fight in whatever way YOU see fit--justice come may the heavens fall. Know in your hearts that despite the epidemic sickness that has been planted into the hearts, minds and souls of the good People of Maryland by their Overlords through over 2 centuries of programming and repression, someday--someday soon--the demonic oligarchs in Annapolis and Pikesville will see Justice, and someday, even the poor subjects of Maryland will know freedom--DESPITE the "efforts" of the people who claim to be "working for their rights"...

BTW, I have copied this post to my HD, so even if this thread gets locked or deleted (which I'm pretty much betting on), I'll still have this text, and will continue to post this and similar editorials--because "they" asked for me to do so...

skidmark said:

Actually, I know one guy who does not seem to be a rich fatcat politically connected synchophant who has an honest-to-goodness current Maryland concealed carry permit. It may be the only black swan, but there it is.

Click to expand...

And I know ONE as well--a female RN who works in Johns Hopkins Trauma Ward, and although she received numerous death threats from gang-bangers because she and her tem patched up several of their victims, her permit application was DENIED. Only after she was attacked and mugged in the parking lot of her own home was she able to secure a permit--because she now had some sort of paper trail of an actual crime against her being committed. She's not rich or well-connected, and has actually testified for several CC and reciprocity Bills in the MD GA, but she has one of those super-rare "unrestricted" carry permits. She also admits that it will most likely NOT be renewed the next time she applies for renewal, because her attacker is in jail, and therefore she is, as the MSP likes to say, "no longer under imminent threat"...

I actually know several people with "unlimited" MD carry permits, but every one with the above-mentioned exception is either a LEO, ex-LE, or works for the "intelligence community", and therefore falls into the "well connected" category (even if they are not the other 2 "W's"...)

Now that we all have gotten that out of our systems, let's get back to the topic at hand.

Being lazy, and being without my former access to Nexus-Lexis, where do I go to get educated on Maryland's understanding of private property, personal property, and how those concepts are applied to te common areas of a condomunium regiem? Where do I go to get educated on Maryland's interpretation of what is private and what is not private (whether it is also considered public or not) activity conducted on the curtilige of one's home/dwelling?

For bonus points, does anyone else understand the distinction raised in asking "what is private and what is not private (whether it is also considered public or not) activity"?

stay safe.

skidmark said:

Being lazy, and being without my former access to Nexus-Lexis, where do I go to get educated on Maryland's understanding of private property, personal property, and how those concepts are applied to te common areas of a condomunium regiem?

Click to expand...

Here's the catch with ANY sort of MD law--the State allows it's individual feifdoms to establish laws, codes, and policies of their own--often in direct conflict with State Statute, especially if they afford the opportunity for increased revenue generation in teh way of fees and fines.

Researching MD law is like unraveling a Gordian Knot.

The only real long-term solution to fair and equitable law in MD--for ANY pursuit, from gun rights to property rights to civil rights--is the "Alexandrian solution".

However, outside of a MASSIVE "reset button", it is nearly impossible to fathom most MD codes and statutes without the help of an "officially anointed priest" of the Bar, and even then, the advice you get will be subject to interpretation by the Courts--who's general influence on decision-making is the depths of the pockets of the plaintiff, and the amount of largess they contribute to State and Municipal coffers...

For instance, although the courts in both MD and VA have concluded on SEVERAL accounts that VA's Riparian Rights extend to the entire Potomac River and allow municipalities to build water intakes and piers that extend far past the designated "boundry" designated by both the 1785 Compact and the Black-Jenkins Award, MSP and MD DNR have BOTH successfully prosecuted VA residents and out-of-staters launching boats from VA docks for possessing firearms on their crafts in violation of MD law (but legal under VA law)

The Courts in MD do not follow Rule of Law. They follow Rule of Who We can Push Around, and Rule of Who's Pockets We Can Successfully Rifle, the actual Statutory Law, Common Law Precedent, or Established Federal Codes or Court Decisions be damned...

If I saw someone walking around on private property in Potomac MD at some multi-million dollar mansion with a S&W .44 on their hip and called in a MWAG to the MSP or Sheriff I would be told to go away, because it was private property. (meaning they have paid for their privacy by enriching the coffers of the State with property taxes, campaign contributions, etc).

But if my crack-head musician downstairs neighbor saw me standing on my balcony which is part of the PRIVATE PROPERTY of our Condo, wearing a Glock on my hip, and called in a MWAG, I guarantee you HoCo police, Columbia PD and probably MSP would be here in minutes with a SWAT team, putting the entire area on lock-down, and probably shooting our cats to death after they broke down the door in the performance of their "routine investigation"...

Quite honestly, it would actually be a favor to us if they would then seize this property and take it form us, because we're TOTALLY upside down on our mortgage... :banghead:


In other words, what does and does not constitute private property in MD often is decided based on the depth of the pockets of the "violator" and how well-connected they are.

Does that ring any bells with any other MD policies, folks?

And BTW, according to the Castle Coalition, a private property rights/eminent domain fighting group, Maryland gets a score of "D" with regards to private property ownership rights in the US...
http://www.condemnation-law.com/main/property-rights/maryland-property-rights

Dear MSI rep,

Thank you for posting such a detailed and erudite answer to my suggestions for activism, education, and community outreach action in Maryland. I think that the Fine People of MD are ready to learn about their fundamental human rights, and are finally waking up to the fact that the police are NOT there to protect them, and that they have been lied to by their politicians for 235+ years. I'm humbled and honored that my suggestions might be considered for implementation in MD.

As you know, similar tactics have been used to GREAT effect in your neighboring states such as VA, PA, WV, and further away in the region, such as NC and OH. I am sure that once mobilized, with the proper guidance and creative thinking, the pro-2A Citizens of MD can move toward effectively and creatively educating the population AND the legislature of MD as to how things OUGHT to be in the "Free State"...

Oh, wait a minute....

I must have been dreaming. Sorry about that folks...

The silence from the "Maryland Side" is proof enough of the "attitude" that Skid and I have been discussing.

'Nuff sed...