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Thread: Superior Court Judge holds NC Felony Firearms Act facially unconstitutional

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    Superior Court Judge holds NC Felony Firearms Act facially unconstitutional

    In Johnston v. State of North Carolina, Case No. 10 CVS 281, Caswell County, North Carolina, Superior Court Judge Abraham P. Jones entered an order, dated October 24, 2011, holding, "The Court is not aware of any set of circumstances under which it is proper for any citizen to be permanently civilly deprived of any fundamental constitutional right without the opportunity to be heard and to present evidence on that civil deprivation both pre- and post-deprivation. The Felony Firearms Act is, therefore, unconstitutional on its face." The Order is subject to a stay pending appeal by the State. 102411 Filed Order Johnston.pdf

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    Regular Member Ruger's Avatar
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    OMG. That's wonderful - definitely a step in the right direction!

    Unfortunately I expect the decision to be overturned under pressure from the emotionally charged non-thinking masses.

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    Interesting read. Initially, I thought "screw'm". Kept reading about his life in last 30 years, and now I'm on his side. There are any number of non-violent felony convictions every year that cause people to lose their 2A rights; that needs to be corrected.

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    an interesting and compelling argument. it will be interesting to see what happens from here.

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    A felony is a felony. Break the law and you should pay.

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    Regular Member Batousaii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by muccione View Post
    A felony is a felony. Break the law and you should pay.
    TRUST & OBEY!
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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    In MD, bringing more than 2 packs of cigarettes into the state that do not have MD tax stamps is a felony.

    Should bringing 3 packs of Camels into MD make one ineligible to own a firearm for the rest of his life?

    I fully support this ruling.
    Last edited by Dreamer; 10-26-2011 at 09:12 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by muccione View Post
    A felony is a felony. Break the law and you should pay.
    There are some that I would agree with this logic on. Mainly violent felonies. The likes of which used to result in the death penalty and we would not be having this discussion.

    But as Dreamer pointed out, the current best idea in law enforcement is to make everything a felony in an attempt to keep people in check. I would suggest a better option would be to actually punish people, but what do I know. If we continue on the "make everything a felon to show we are tough on crime" path this will become a bigger issue. And it will have to be sorted out at some point.

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by muccione View Post
    A felony is a felony. Break the law and you should pay.
    There is a problem with that. When you commit a crime, yes there is a punishment, but after you have paid you debt to society should your punishment continue on forever? I think not.

    Some "felony" charges are absolutely crazy, like the one mentioned about 2 packs of cigarettes without a MD tax stamp will get you a felony charge? Come on.

    Lets try another, that I happen to know is about the same in almost (all?) states. When I was in the military there was a warning "15 will get you 20" Yes, if you are over 18 and caught having sex with a perfectly willing 15- year old (one that may have told you she was 18), you will have a felony charge. It is called "statutory" rape. Is it a violent crime? NO. Did someone get "hurt" by this "crime", No. It is a crime against a statute law) nothing else. Will you go to jail if you are over 18 and forever after have a felony record? You better believe it.

    I never had this problem the years I was in, but some of the troops that were under me did. Is it fair that this "felon" can no longer vote, posess a firearm, is considered a "sex" offender...etc etc?...not in my book. I remember one poor guy that picked the underage gal up in a bar that sent him to jail...and he was on home leave after coming back from a tour in Vietnam...Welcome back to the US buddy.

    Or how about this one. Young Mexican girl (under 16) gets pregnant. Her parents know she has been living with this guy who is over 18. The couple decide to return to Mexico to get married (totally legal in Mexico, can't be done in WA). The girl stops in at the clinic to have something else checked before they leave, the observant Dr asks if she is pregnant, she says yes, guy goes to jail, girl and baby have all expences paid by the health care for poor kids...Guy is in jail for statutory rape, he cannot support her. Stupid! This happened only a couple years ago.
    Last edited by hermannr; 10-27-2011 at 02:22 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by muccione View Post
    A felony is a felony. Break the law and you should pay.
    http://www.harveysilverglate.com/Boo...oniesaDay.aspx

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by An Idiot View Post
    A felony is a felony. Break the law and you should pay.
    Quote Originally Posted by Batousaii View Post
    TRUST & OBEY!
    Your government is to be trusted on all issues. They know whats best for you.
    Failure to comply may result in new laws being created to ensure your absolute trust is guaranteed.
    It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.

    If ever a regime existed to which that statement applied, it is the one we currently have in the USA. Quietly getting away with things that ended others.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefjason View Post
    the current best idea in law enforcement is to make everything a felony in an attempt to keep people in check.
    Do the LEOs Legislate? Not directly... But if NC is like FL, the LEOs get what they want from the Legislators, or the Legislators have 'unpleasant' things happen in their families...

    The fact that a connection exists between LEOs and Legislators to such a degree that you need not mention the legislators, tells you how out of control it is...
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

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    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    Quote Originally Posted by muccione View Post
    A felony is a felony. Break the law and you should pay.
    one has no legal or moral obligation to follow an unconstitutional law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DKSuddeth View Post
    one has no legal or moral obligation to follow an unconstitutional law.
    Tell that to a guy who uses a firearm to defend himself but goes back to prison solely on the charge of possession of a firearm by a felon.

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruger View Post
    Tell that to a guy who uses a firearm to defend himself but goes back to prison solely on the charge of possession of a firearm by a felon.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using Tapatalk
    There will probably be consequences, but it is a DUTY to disobey unjust laws. Some people are aware of the consequences, some people aren't.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    Do the LEOs Legislate? Not directly... But if NC is like FL, the LEOs get what they want from the Legislators, or the Legislators have 'unpleasant' things happen in their families...

    The fact that a connection exists between LEOs and Legislators to such a degree that you need not mention the legislators, tells you how out of control it is...
    Well, the Sheriffs Association was key in not doing away with our Pistol Purchase Permit recently. Do they make the law? No. But neither do legislators enforce it. So my best guess is that LE asks and Legislators deliver. Seems to be how it works. I can't imagine that LE is taking their cues from politicians, I would think it would be the other way.

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefjason View Post
    Well, the Sheriffs Association was key in not doing away with our Pistol Purchase Permit recently. Do they make the law? No. But neither do legislators enforce it. So my best guess is that LE asks and Legislators deliver. Seems to be how it works. I can't imagine that LE is taking their cues from politicians, I would think it would be the other way.
    That's kinda my point... How far should that relationship go?

    LE wants a new law, Leg delivers it.... On what grounds? What' happened to the will of the people? Why is government serving one branch directly with another, instead of the voters? This isn't even a thinly veiled scam, it's right out there.
    Last edited by ixtow; 10-28-2011 at 03:07 AM.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruger View Post
    Tell that to a guy who uses a firearm to defend himself but goes back to prison solely on the charge of possession of a firearm by a felon.
    I'm not anywhere up to speed on NC case law, but the legal theory of "competing harms" has been used in several other states to determine that even felons retain their common law right to self defense and that using a firearm for that purpose is not a violation of the "felon in possession" laws. As I understand it, NC also recognizes English Common Law.

    Here's Virginia's prime example, offered only for an explanation of the concept. http://www.courts.state.va.us/opinio...wp/1982002.pdf .

    stay safe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    That's kinda my point... How far should that relationship go?
    Yeah, I don't mind LE initiating some of these laws. I do mind it when the legislators take it hook, line, and sinker; regardless of whether it makes any sense. I think we see it pretty similarly.

    For example, they tried to pass some terrorism legislation recently. One of the PC's for a search warrant would have been regular gunfire. A lot of us were not OK with that and made our point known. Our point being, don't make something that is legal PC for a warrant. If you are really a terrorist, you have to be doing something illegal to be used as PC. Use that. The gunfire part ended up getting struck out.

    It seems odd which laws LE gets ahead of and pushes for. There are certainly some that they should, but don't. It seems the leading cause of changes in drunk driving laws is dead children, and parents pushing for them. If LE gets involved it's after the ball is rolling. I see that as a pretty sorry comment on the state of things. Pushing for the ability to expand searches, and keeping pistol purchase permits, but not pushing much for making the roads safer. Follow the money I guess.

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    stealing pine straw in 1 county in NC is a felony.. LOL. so your mom needs pine straw for her flower beds, the woods behind her house is full of it, no one ever maintains the property or uses any of the pine straw.. sure its not her land but c'mon its friggin pinestraw.. she gets some and puts it around her flowers.... your moms is now a felon and can no longer protect herself with anything more than a bow and arrow...


    i support this ruling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by muccione View Post
    A felony is a felony. Break the law and you should pay.
    quite funny that this mindset presents its self on this forum. considering what people in NC can do legally (OC for instance) is a 'felony' in other states. it is a felony in NC if you have the wrong address on your drivers license. It is a felony to sell raw milk.
    my position is, if the law is unjust, it it unfit to exist. so one must judge both the law and whether one is guilty before making broad blanket statements like 'a felon is a felon.' in fact an acquaintance is barred from purchasing a firearm because he subdued his father in law who was chasing his mother in law with a knife.
    lets not forget people who ignored the fugitive slave law were 'felons.' lets not forget that the people standing on lexington green in 1775 were 'felons' who 'broke the law.' lets not forget this country was created by good people, who broke bad laws, and illegally threw off their own government. 86% of 'felons' in federal prison were non violent offenders, so lets not pretend that all felons are just murderers or rapists.

    lets also not forget that with firearms in NC, all you need is a couple different charges to go to jail as a 'felon' when you harmed not a single person.
    Last edited by brutus1776; 11-01-2011 at 01:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefjason View Post
    There are some that I would agree with this logic on. Mainly violent felonies. The likes of which used to result in the death penalty and we would not be having this discussion.
    that is my position entirely.
    if someone is really that dangerous and has committed violent crimes, they should either be dead or behind bars which makes this 'felon' convo irrelevant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefjason View Post
    Well, the Sheriffs Association was key in not doing away with our Pistol Purchase Permit recently. Do they make the law? No. But neither do legislators enforce it. So my best guess is that LE asks and Legislators deliver. Seems to be how it works. I can't imagine that LE is taking their cues from politicians, I would think it would be the other way.
    the govt is a self licking ice cream cone for sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brutus1776 View Post
    quite funny that this mindset presents its self on this forum. considering what people in NC can do legally (OC for instance) is a 'felony' in other states. it is a felony in NC if you have the wrong address on your drivers license. It is a felony to sell raw milk.
    my position is, if the law is unjust, it it unfit to exist. so one must judge both the law and whether one is guilty before making broad blanket statements like 'a felon is a felon.' in fact an acquaintance is barred from purchasing a firearm because he subdued his father in law who was chasing his mother in law with a knife.
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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    If a law is unfair or unjust, we work to change it - that is part of OCDO rules.
    Fortunately, OCDO doesn't run my life. If it did, we'd have no rights at all. This policy is a willful decision to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

    Outright, violent defiance has been the engine of change in all things. Even the Civil Rights movement has re-written history to hide the fact that Malcolm is the only reason anyone listened to Martin... If it were easy to read a book and find that retaliation is the only thing that works, people might start doing it.... But if you keep the lies alive, they stay docile... The only effective tools are discarded in advance.

    You deserve what you tolerate.
    Last edited by ixtow; 11-02-2011 at 02:07 AM.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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