Superior Court Judge holds NC Felony Firearms Act facially unconstitutional

muccione said:

A felony is a felony. Break the law and you should pay.

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quite funny that this mindset presents its self on this forum. considering what people in NC can do legally (OC for instance) is a 'felony' in other states. it is a felony in NC if you have the wrong address on your drivers license. It is a felony to sell raw milk.
my position is, if the law is unjust, it it unfit to exist. so one must judge both the law and whether one is guilty before making broad blanket statements like 'a felon is a felon.' in fact an acquaintance is barred from purchasing a firearm because he subdued his father in law who was chasing his mother in law with a knife.
lets not forget people who ignored the fugitive slave law were 'felons.' lets not forget that the people standing on lexington green in 1775 were 'felons' who 'broke the law.' lets not forget this country was created by good people, who broke bad laws, and illegally threw off their own government. 86% of 'felons' in federal prison were non violent offenders, so lets not pretend that all felons are just murderers or rapists.

lets also not forget that with firearms in NC, all you need is a couple different charges to go to jail as a 'felon' when you harmed not a single person.

chiefjason said:

There are some that I would agree with this logic on. Mainly violent felonies. The likes of which used to result in the death penalty and we would not be having this discussion.

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that is my position entirely.
if someone is really that dangerous and has committed violent crimes, they should either be dead or behind bars which makes this 'felon' convo irrelevant.

chiefjason said:

Well, the Sheriffs Association was key in not doing away with our Pistol Purchase Permit recently. Do they make the law? No. But neither do legislators enforce it. So my best guess is that LE asks and Legislators deliver. Seems to be how it works. I can't imagine that LE is taking their cues from politicians, I would think it would be the other way.

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the govt is a self licking ice cream cone for sure.

brutus1776 said:

quite funny that this mindset presents its self on this forum. considering what people in NC can do legally (OC for instance) is a 'felony' in other states. it is a felony in NC if you have the wrong address on your drivers license. It is a felony to sell raw milk.
my position is, if the law is unjust, it it unfit to exist. so one must judge both the law and whether one is guilty before making broad blanket statements like 'a felon is a felon.' in fact an acquaintance is barred from purchasing a firearm because he subdued his father in law who was chasing his mother in law with a knife.
----snip---

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If a law is unfair or unjust, we work to change it - that is part of OCDO rules.

(15) WE ADVOCATE FOR THE 'LAW-ABIDING' ONLY: Posts advocating illegal acts of any kind are NOT welcome here. Even if you feel that a law is unconstitutional we do not break it, we repeal it or defeat it in the courts.

Grapeshot said:

If a law is unfair or unjust, we work to change it - that is part of OCDO rules.

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Fortunately, OCDO doesn't run my life. If it did, we'd have no rights at all. This policy is a willful decision to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Outright, violent defiance has been the engine of change in all things. Even the Civil Rights movement has re-written history to hide the fact that Malcolm is the only reason anyone listened to Martin... If it were easy to read a book and find that retaliation is the only thing that works, people might start doing it.... But if you keep the lies alive, they stay docile... The only effective tools are discarded in advance.

You deserve what you tolerate.

ixtow said:

You deserve what you tolerate.

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We "tolerate" you, do we not? :lol:..Guess that means we deserve you..:lol:

Grapeshot said:

If a law is unfair or unjust, we work to change it - that is part of OCDO rules.

(15) WE ADVOCATE FOR THE 'LAW-ABIDING' ONLY: Posts advocating illegal acts of any kind are NOT welcome here. Even if you feel that a law is unconstitutional we do not break it, we repeal it or defeat it in the courts.

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Exactly. That is what these cases are about. The NC Felony Firearms Act is unfair, unjust and unconstitutional. In handling these cases, I have not advocated for the law-breakers but for the law abiding. Notice that Richard Johnston, in this case, had a hard time readjusting to society after serving with the Rangers in Viet Nam. But he got his life together and became a responsible, law-abiding citizen and a valued member of his community. But in 2004 the State took his fundamental right to protect himself and his family without even affording him a hearing. For the last year that we have statistics, there were close to 70,000 felony guilty pleas in North Carolina Superior Courts. And there were 409 violent crimes committed by an felon using a firearm. So, 70,000 people lose their Second Amendment rights annually to prevent 409 annual crimes? There were 7 common law felonies. In 1898 there were 35 felonies in North Carolina Statutes. Today, there are over 500 in Chapter 14 alone (without counting the drug felonies in Chapter 90 or the innumerable regulatory felonies spread throughout the rest of the General Statutes.) So, we are creating a permanent underclass of "felons" who are forever labeled and disabled in many areas with no chance of redemption. And our Legislature continues to listen to the law and order lobby and think that the answer to every problem is to make it a felony. Felonies are so common these days that I've heard one person say, "The issue isn't whether or not you are felon. The only issue is whether you've been caught yet." But after 4 to 7 years without re-committing a crime, a felon's statistical likelihood of committing a felony is the same as a person who has never committed a felony. And in years on out past that the ex-felon's likelihood of committing a crime is actually lower than that of a person who has never committed one. If you live in the suburbs, I would be willing to bet that there is an ex-felon living on your block that you would never suspect of being one. Regardless of where you live, I would be willing to bet that you work with, or are acquainted with several ex-felons whom you would never suspect of having once offended the State. So, how can we justify gun control for this group on the idea that they are a danger to public safety without recognizing the individual variation within the group? What's the next group that's going to get so designated? What is the next right that can be taken away if we accept that rationale? In this case the Judge, quite rationally and correctly, says simply that the State has to prove that there is a continuing danger in a hearing where the citizen has the right be heard on the issue before it can take the citizen's constitutional right. That does not mean that all felons should have guns. It does mean that every citizen should not lose his constitutional rights without the State being required to show that there is a very good reason for taking that citizen's right. Remember, we are endowed with these rights by our Creator, they are not gifts of the State. They may be able to regulate them within reasonable limits. But they didn't give them, and they cannot take them away.

Grapeshot said:

If a law is unfair or unjust, we work to change it - that is part of OCDO rules.

(15) WE ADVOCATE FOR THE 'LAW-ABIDING' ONLY: Posts advocating illegal acts of any kind are NOT welcome here. Even if you feel that a law is unconstitutional we do not break it, we repeal it or defeat it in the courts.

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no where have i 'advocated illegal acts' i just said its unfit to exist.

on a side note, if you feel that 'working to repeal or defeat an unconstitutional measure in the courts' or in another words, the legislative process will bring liberty back to this country, i think you are just wishfully thinking. i think the history of the US has proven its impossible. and in full disclosure, im not advocating 'illegal acts' im just merely saying, political action is largely ineffective.

It's an interesting topic, for certain. I'm still curious how working within a system we cannot afford, which does not work to out benefit, will ever result in restoration of Rights... It goes hand in hand with the 2nd amendment, as we all agree tha government must never have a monopoly on force. But since it has been the case since the dawn of time that using what little force we have is considered illegal...... It's just too obvious. What the guv allows and cedes to us a being 'legally allowed' will always be ineffective. They would never 'allow us to have' something that would actually work... How many times do human societies have to learn this lesson?

If we have a Right to Force, as preventing the Guv's Monopoly on it... A Right unexercised is a Right lost...

Does the Right disappear when the Law defies it? Or when we become to cowardly to use it?

It's illegal to shoot back, but it's the only thing that can help us. Common Sense becomes Illegal, and worse, against forum rules...

Every time you fail to use force, you grant guv a monopoly on it. Having guns is not the same as having freedom. The Right is not the same as the Ability...

As with any war, If you refuse to shoot back you've already lost. Denying that this war is already upon us won't make it go away...

We have the right to lobby, to vote, to file complaints, to sue - all of which are legal and effective means of "shooting back."

Grapeshot said:

We have the right to lobby, to vote, to file complaints, to sue - all of which are legal ... means of "shooting back."

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I fixed it for you.

I will agree to disagree, the facts repeatedly recorded by history are on my side.

i cant help but wonder if grapeshot thinks that people like sophie scholl were justifiably executed because they 'broke the law' and were treasonous, seditious, enemies of the state. thinking that americans can simply 'work within' a system stacked entirely against individual liberty is sort of like saying that 'slaves should just of worked within the slave system and done what they could, after all any outside actions would be illegal.'

but i do believe america is at that awkward stage, to late to work within the system and to early to shoot the bastards....and it is very evident that 'voting, lobbying and filing complaints' have failed dismally in increasing personal freedom in this country. every year it the same thing, just vote for this guy, vote for that guy, give money to this group, and govt still grows, still takes liberty and still enslaves the populace.

brutus1776 said:

i cant help but wonder if grapeshot thinks that people like sophie scholl were justifiably executed because they 'broke the law' and were treasonous, seditious, enemies of the state. thinking that americans can simply 'work within' a system stacked entirely against individual liberty is sort of like saying that 'slaves should just of worked within the slave system and done what they could, after all any outside actions would be illegal.'

but i do believe america is at that awkward stage, to late to work within the system and to early to shoot the bastards....and it is very evident that 'voting, lobbying and filing complaints' have failed dismally in increasing personal freedom in this country. every year it the same thing, just vote for this guy, vote for that guy, give money to this group, and govt still grows, still takes liberty and still enslaves the populace.

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Nah. Grape is just making a pre-moderation showing for the kings. He has an obligation as a moderator of a forum. I doubt his personal position is as statist/defeatist as the rule he is obligated to support.

I agree with your point, but I'm not fool enough to think even the owners of this board implemented these rules as anything more than what they believe to be a necessary PR evil.

Remember The Hangman? Until it's your neck in the noose, everyone else just brought it upon themselves...

Don't curse my obituary when you've no one left to blame...