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To register, Or not to register, that is the question??

CommonMan101

Regular Member
Joined
May 20, 2009
Messages
123
Location
Dallas, Texas, USA
Well, HHK. Your post actually backs me up. I told you the constitution is not a list of our rights - of course there is no constitutional right. It's natural and if the Govt wants to act like we don't have them after our use of the soap box and the ballot box then we still have the 3rd box to protect our natural rights. Which I believe a bunch of us here understand.
 
H

Herr Heckler Koch

Guest
List of schools, documents and authors on Natural Rights.

Here's a list of schools, documents and authors on Natural Rights in roughly chronological order. Cite chapter and verse from one arguing precisely for democracy or enfranchisement as a natural right.
  • Stoics
  • Seneca the Younger
  • Cicero
  • Confucian
  • Martin Luther
  • John Locke
  • Thomas Paine
  • George Mason
  • John Lilburne
  • Francis Hutcheson
  • Hegel
  • Thomas Hobbes
  • Richard Price
  • Staughton Lynd
  • Thomas Jefferson
  • Salmon P. Chase
  • Universal Declaration of Human Rights
  • California Constitution
  • Erich Fromm
  • Robert Nozick
  • Ludwig von Mises
  • Ayn Rand
  • Murray Rothbard
  • Hesselberg
  • Morris and Linda Tannehill
  • Stephan Kinsella
  • James Wilson
  • Samuel P. Huntington
The argument against any pact of subjugation seems common and essential to a natural rights argument denying voluntary government of any sort. To which argument will you enslave your common self?
 

CommonMan101

Regular Member
Joined
May 20, 2009
Messages
123
Location
Dallas, Texas, USA
Can't decide whether it's sad or funny you expect pre-written permission for your rights.

We do decide how we are going to do things - like electing our own representative Govt. - whether or not someone else at some other time has ever written it down before. If our own Govt does not represent us then it is illegitimate. That is a natural law - like gravity - don't care if someone wrote anything down about it at some past time. Current laws are our agreed upon rules of playing with each other - subject to change when we perceive an unfairness. Some laws are unjust from the start and need to be ignored. Happens all the time.

Like I said, the third box of last resort is an option when those pre-written permission slips you insist on become a collar of oppression.

Think of it this way: Carry your point of view back to the mid 1700's and look for where the colonists had any permission to start a country. I'm betting you find no pre-written permission. It was natural to want freedom.

A modern example of what I am trying to get across you can see daily in courtrooms across America - jury nullification. Just because a law was written down at an earlier time it doesn't mean it can never be nullfied by 6 or 12 people deciding it's rightness as it applies to a real life situation.

You know, The first 10 amendments were written because there were people that just had to have things spelled out before they got it. Sadly it comes across as a list of permissions and that is what I see you struggling with. Even they knew they couldn' list all the possible permutations of what would affect their liberty.

"Constitutionally protected rights" and "Constitutional rights" two phrases that are not interchangeable because the latter doesn't exist. Once you accept the difference you will see my point.

Lastly, What are you trying to accomplish? Are you trying to say every national election has been illegitimate? Or we must stop voting for national leaders and let them do what they want to us? Exactly what is the end result you are shooting for here?

If it's purely about who gets to vote then I have two questions for you. Should we allow Chinese citizens to vote in our election?

If not then how are you going to discern if they are legitimate American voters or Chinese vacationers wanting to put their two cents in?

If we allow anyone and everyone in the world to vote in our elections - then we have no nation.
 
Last edited:
H

Herr Heckler Koch

Guest
Ah, thank you for well demonstrating that you are a student of solipsism and not of natural rights.

It is silly to suggest that you alone stand as tall as the shoulders of the giants of civilization upon whom we stand.
 

KBCraig

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
4,886
Location
Granite State of Mind
No matter how one answers the question, fortunately it's moot for the vast majority of Americans, because they don't live where there is any kind of firearms registration available even if they wished to do so.
 

Big Gay Al

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Aug 27, 2006
Messages
1,944
Location
Mason, Michigan, USA
So I'm just wondering how my people here thinks registering any gun with local LEO, is a violation of the 2nd?

Sorry if this question was brought up before.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
To skip all the other stuff. Registration is gun control. In many places, like Michigan (where I live) it started as a racist form of gun control after the Dr. Ossian Sweet incident in Detroit.

How true it is, I don't know, but I'm told that NYC's gun control laws (The Sullivan Act) started as a political form of gun control. Supposedly, it was a way for a certain NYC politician to make life safer for his "not so law abiding" constituents. Others were based on NYC's law, for various reasons.

I believe it is a violation of our rights, but I do not recommend fighting it unless you have deep pockets, and a really good lawyer. We've been fighting ours from the legislative end. We've managed to get rid of the so called "inspection" part, where you had to take the pistol to the local LEO shop to have it "safety inspected." Now you and the seller fill out a form and take or mail it in. We're hoping to get rid of the rest of it soon. It's a matter of showing how registration hasn't helped to solve any crime since it's inception.

It's also a matter of convincing the state police their resources would be better spent in other areas.

Personally, right now, if I lived in Hawaii, I'd be fighting harder for shall issue rather than the registration issue. But that's just my opinion. :)
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
....snip....

Personally, right now, if I lived in Hawaii, I'd be fighting harder for shall issue rather than the registration issue. But that's just my opinion. :)

Better to have it (permit) and have it be registered than not have it at all.

Let the nay sayers and "all-or-nothing" group begin
 

DonRow

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2011
Messages
56
Location
Kalaheo, Hawaii, United States
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by Big Gay Al

Personally, right now, if I lived in Hawaii, I'd be fighting harder for shall issue rather than the registration issue. But that's just my opinion. :)

Well we're trying, how far it's going to go, now that's the million Dollar question. It took 30 years to get our first republican governor. But that didn't matter cause no mater what good she tried to do for Hawaii the commie dems here who has run this state into the ground railroaded her every step of the way.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

matt2636

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2011
Messages
201
Location
cedar rapids
The reason why I ask is here in Hawaii my friend ask them why we need to register and the only reason they could come up with was "just in case it get stolen" then he said to them "you know this is a violation of my 2nd and maybe 4th amendment right" and all he said he got was a blank stare. :/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

does operation fast and furious ring a bell?? they can keep track of guns that were sold to catch all these drug dealin weapon trading cartels. in case it gets stolen?? HA!! yes mr. smith we will notify you WHEN it shows up (IF THEY DONT SCRACH THE SERIAL# OFF OF IT) i just write mine down.
 

DonRow

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2011
Messages
56
Location
Kalaheo, Hawaii, United States
does operation fast and furious ring a bell?? they can keep track of guns that were sold to catch all these drug dealin weapon trading cartels. in case it gets stolen?? HA!! yes mr. smith we will notify you WHEN it shows up (IF THEY DONT SCRACH THE SERIAL# OFF OF IT) i just write mine down.

Lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

superpoof

New member
Joined
Mar 23, 2012
Messages
1
Location
Pell City Al
The new kid on the block. (me)

Well, HHK. Your post actually backs me up. I told you the constitution is not a list of our rights - of course there is no constitutional right. It's natural and if the Govt wants to act like we don't have them after our use of the soap box and the ballot box then we still have the 3rd box to protect our natural rights. Which I believe a bunch of us here understand.

My well rehearsed answer to any law officer,is: "My rights as mentioned in the Constitution say that I do not need a permit to open carry a firearm"...etc
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
My well rehearsed answer to any law officer,is: "My rights as mentioned in the Constitution say that I do not need a permit to open carry a firearm"...etc

Welcome to OCDO Mr Superproof.

That's a noble thought to which most here would subscribe, but is not likely to work in the average municipal court. Anyone wishing to make the ultimate sacrifice had better have more money to appeal than most have ever dreamed of seeing.

Meanwhile what can we do? Get active and change/improve your local and state laws.

Don't think I'll use the line when traveling out of state. :uhoh:
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
Amendment 14 - Citizenship Rights. Ratified 7/9/1868.

1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
It is interesting, this question of voting. The documents required to do anything are mandates of government, yet there is nary a challenge to the concept that voting is a right, that requires proof of citizenship to gain eligibility for protection under the constitution.

Yes, I know the pro-illegal alien crowd is in the forefront of the voter-ID schtick, but the concept of a ID to vote based on constitutional principals is likely rarely discussed outside the faculty lounge.

I believe the courts have stated that illegal aliens are considered 'the people' too, as in the 'right of the people to....'. Me thinks that in this day and age, having a ID to vote is good, yet, bad. Nope, nothing in the constitution that would prohibit the government from denying 'my right to vote' because I drive a F-350 that is single handily destroying the planet.....even though driving my F-350 is currently a legal behavior if conducted within the confines of the traffic laws.

Nope, just cuz 'da man' says ya gotta have piece of paper to do dis or dat, does not mean that da man is following the law where our fundamental rights are concerned. Now, if the SCOTUS would just come around to that same basic principal I could do my part to get Obama out of office, by voting as many times as i need to.

ID?....we don't need no stinking ID. We don't need no stinking...
 
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