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Thread: Unloaded/Encased Public buildings

  1. #1
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Unloaded/Encased Public buildings

    Would this be lawful or not?
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Regular Member Outdoorsman1's Avatar
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    I am not sure I tottally understand the question....

    If you mean in a posted building or even one prohibited for carry in Act 35 then i am thinking not legal as is the sign or law says No Firearms... nothing about loaded or unloaded or cased or uncased...

    A firearm is still a firearm even if it is unloaded and in a case....

    Could be wrong

    ETA:... But then again, how do you transport firearms at the airport during a flight... unloaded and in a case..

    So I guess....... Hhhmmmmm...???? Very Good Question...



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    Last edited by Outdoorsman1; 10-26-2011 at 04:34 PM.
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    Regular Member oliverclotheshoff's Avatar
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    i have wondered his myself
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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    If the building isn't posted,
    and you have a permit,
    yes it's legal.

    Otherwise, no.
    But how would anyone know?

    I think the airport (check-in) is a special case, where people have always been allowed to bring U/E firearms in, even if it was a gov't building (not all are). Now unless the airport is posted we could walk up to check-in, declare it, U&E right in front of the gov't snoops, & be on our way.
    I think they'd have conniption fits on top of kittens, but it'd be legal.
    "Wise" is another discussion entirely.

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    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    Would this be lawful or not?
    There is no exception before or after Act 35(November 1st) for unloaded and encased without explicit permission from the Chief LEO.

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    Regular Member GlockRDH's Avatar
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    Wow...Protias...I was gonna come home and post the IDENTICAL question! LOL
    I was thinking about that this morning and had texted Protias....since it IS legal to posess a U/E firearm w/in the GFSZ...i was wondering about buildings that are marked...

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlockRDH View Post
    Wow...Protias...I was gonna come home and post the IDENTICAL question! LOL I was thinking about that this morning and had texted Protias....since it IS legal to posess a U/E firearm w/in the GFSZ...i was wondering about buildings that are marked...
    I've been wondering this a few months myself, so I had to ask.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    The original post, is pretty vague in that there is no hint as to which public buildings are being referred to.

    To me, the principal question to be resolved is the exact definition of "carry".

    Most of the statutes involved in this question use this definition:

    175.60(1)(ag) “Carry” means to go armed with.
    Notice the following paragraph, does NOT prohibit firearms. It prohibits you from carry... You are not allowed "to go armed with."

    175.60(16) PROHIBITED ACTIVITY. (a) Except as provided in par. (b), neither a licensee nor an out−of−state licensee may knowingly carry a concealed weapon, a weapon that is not concealed, or a firearm that is not a weapon in any of the following places:
    Here is the DOJ FAQ summarized 175.60(16) list that is prohibited without a need for signage:

     Any portion of a building that is a police station, sheriff‘s office, state patrol station, or the office of a Division of Criminal Investigation special agent of DOJ.
     Any portion of a building that is a prison, jail, house of correction, or secured correctional facility.
     The Sand Ridge Secure Treatment Center, the Wisconsin Resource Center, or any secured unit or secured portion of a mental health institution, including a facility designated as the Maximum Security Facility at the Mendota Mental Health Institute.
     Any portion of a building that is a county, state, or federal courthouse.
     Any portion of a building that is a municipal courtroom if court is in session.
     A place beyond a security checkpoint in an airport.

    -------

    Another 11Act35 modified Wisconsin statute:

    941.235  Carrying firearm in public building.
    941.235(1) Any person who goes armed with a firearm in any building owned or leased by the state or any political subdivision of the state is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.
    (2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
    ...
    (e) A licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (d), or an out-of-state licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (g).
    -------

    Here is the statute that involves sign posting or notification to deny the privilege to carry:

    943.13 Trespass to land.
    (1e)(aL) "Carry" has the meaning given in s. 175.60 (1) (ag).
    ...
    (bm) "Licensee" means a licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (d), or an out-of-state licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (g).

    (1m) Whoever does any of the following is subject to a Class B forfeiture:
    This is followed by quite a few paragraphs, describing different property types, (single family residences, multi-family residences, non-residential buildings & grounds, Land, special events, state or local government buildings not in 175.60(16)(a), buildings on the grounds of universities or colleges, and the access rules that apply to these property types. All of these paragraphs that mention firearms, use the phrase While carrying a firearm

    go to the DOJ FAQ and look at the section on:

    RESTRICTIONS BY BUSINESSES AND PROPERTY OWNERS page - 32 -
    Again "Carry" is defined "to go armed with"

    ===========================

    I do not think someone who has a handgun encased and unloaded would be considered "to go armed with" a handgun.
    Last edited by E6chevron; 10-27-2011 at 03:14 AM.
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    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E6chevron View Post
    ......I do not think someone who has a handgun encased and unloaded would be considered "to go armed with" a handgun.
    That would be incorrect.
    To "go armed with" = on the person or within reach. That is why you can be cited for concealed carry if the firearm is locked in the glove box or a console between the seats..
    To "go armed" does not require going anywhere. The elements for a violation of s. 941.23 are: 1) a dangerous weapon is on the defendant's person or within reach....
    Last edited by Interceptor_Knight; 10-27-2011 at 02:46 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Interceptor_Knight View Post
    That would be incorrect.
    To "go armed with" = on the person or within reach. That is why you can be cited for concealed carry if the firearm is locked in the glove box or a console between the seats..
    How do you close a handgun case without violating the 941.23 concealed carry law?
    Last edited by E6chevron; 10-27-2011 at 04:45 AM.
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  11. #11
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E6chevron View Post
    How do you close a handgun case without violating the 941.23 concealed carry law?
    Doug used to get a kick out of that, mentioned it often and even made a video rant about it. WI law is goofy. DNR Wardens have been quoted as saying that so long as the case looks like a gun case that the gun is not "hidden"..
    We all know that enforcement policy is a patchwork across the State and different municipalities enforce the gun laws differently but I am not aware of anyone being cited in the recent past for carrying an unloaded and encased firearm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Interceptor_Knight View Post
    Doug used to get a kick out of that, mentioned it often and even made a video rant about it. WI law is goofy. DNR Wardens have been quoted as saying that so long as the case looks like a gun case that the gun is not "hidden"..
    We all know that enforcement policy is a patchwork across the State and different municipalities enforce the gun laws differently but I am not aware of anyone being cited in the recent past for carrying an unloaded and encased firearm.
    But placing it in a case IS hiding it. Dougs video was dead on. Im going to find it and post a link for our... "new" members...

    Here it is,
    http://vimeo.com/6115265
    Last edited by Mlutz; 10-27-2011 at 06:05 AM. Reason: added link
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  13. #13
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mlutz View Post
    But placing it in a case IS hiding it.
    That video was to point out how silly the letter of the law is. Since nobody has ever been cited for doing so unless the case was further hidden by placing it in a backpack, etc, it is purely an academic discussion and not worthy of much consideration.

  14. #14
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E6chevron View Post
    The original post, is pretty vague in that there is no hint as to which public buildings are being referred to.
    Under 941.235, it is illegal to carry a firearm in any public building. What is unclear to me is, can that firearm be unloaded and encased and still brought in the building?
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  15. #15
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    Under 941.235, it is illegal to carry a firearm in any public building. What is unclear to me is, can that firearm be unloaded and encased and still brought in the building?
    There is no exception in the Statute for unloaded and encased so it may not be brought in the building.

  16. #16
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interceptor_Knight View Post
    There is no exception in the Statute for unloaded and encased so it may not be brought in the building.
    Thanks. That's what I needed clarified.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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