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Thread: Carry for those 18-20 with permits

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Carry for those 18-20 with permits

    This got started in the list your oc experience thread so I'm going to move it here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    You change my wording - I did NOT make reference to age to get a permit in that state. What I said was you must obey the laws of the state you are visiting - simple enough, yes?

    Here is another example.

    "It is important for license holders to understand that when they are traveling in or through another state they are subject to the firearm laws of that state. We have provided links to the state laws or to the licensing authorities' Web page of each of our reciprocity states so that licensees can do the necessary planning and research when preparing to travel.

    (3) Individuals qualify for concealed weapon licenses in these states upon reaching 18 years of age.
    HOWEVER, any licensee of these reciprocity states who is not 21 years of age or older IS PROHIBITED from carrying a concealed weapon or firearm in Florida
    "
    http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/new...led_carry.html

    You would seem to think that if one has a permit to conceal at 18yo from their home state that he/she may legally CC in another state with whom they have reciprocity - that is most assuredly not correct. If the state being visited were to allow 18 or less to CC, then and only then would it be legal.

    From HR 822:

    (b) A person carrying a concealed handgun under this section shall be permitted to carry a handgun subject to the same conditions or limitations that apply to residents of the State who have permits issued by the State or are otherwise lawfully allowed to do so by the State.

    Therefore if 21 to CC by residents, then 21 to CC by visitors.
    That only deals with the state of Florida. I used FL and AZ as examples of states that have those types of laws. There are states that require someone to be 21 to get their permit but recognize another states permit that issue to those 18 and older and assuming that state has no statutory age to carry someone 18-20 with a permit from a recognized in state is allowed to carry there.

    `(b) A person carrying a concealed handgun under this section shall be permitted to carry a handgun subject to the same conditions or limitations that apply to residents of the State who have permits issued by the State or are otherwise lawfully allowed to do so by the State.
    This is saying that you have to go by the same conditions or limitation that apply to residents of the State WHO ALREADY HAVE PERMITS. If this were to be passed I would have a valid permit in that state and would then have to follow the carry laws of that state as far as where you can't carry, number of guns one is allowed to carry, etc.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    I have two carry permits that allow me to carry in many different states. Many of those states have a LICENSING age of 21. This does not mean that you must be 21 if you have an out-of-state permit and are carrying just that to get that states permit you must be 21.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    I have two carry permits that allow me to carry in many different states. Many of those states have a LICENSING age of 21. This does not mean that you must be 21 if you have an out-of-state permit and are carrying just that to get that states permit you must be 21.
    If I remember correctly, Indiana issues permits/licenses (needed for both OC & CC there) if you are at least 18 years of age. And, as far as I know, they can CC here - there's no law in Michigan which would prohibit them from doing so.

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpringerXDacp View Post
    If I remember correctly, Indiana issues permits/licenses (needed for both OC & CC there) if you are at least 18 years of age. And, as far as I know, they can CC here - there's no law in Michigan which would prohibit them from doing so.
    You are 100% correct!
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    im betting for concealed some states may still recognize, some states may not.

    but my point i was getting at in the other thread is, under 21 having a nonresident CPL opens him/her to open carry reciprocity in other states(ones that have it for under 21) as well as vehicle carry and possibly even pfz exemptions in said states.
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


  6. #6
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lil_freak_66 View Post
    im betting for concealed some states may still recognize, some states may not.

    but my point i was getting at in the other thread is, under 21 having a nonresident CPL opens him/her to open carry reciprocity in other states(ones that have it for under 21) as well as vehicle carry and possibly even pfz exemptions in said states.
    Well if the state has no law against OC for someone 18 or older you don't need to permit except fro like you said possibly vehicle carry or possibly pfz exemptions. I know in Pennsylvania even if you don't have a recognized permit you can still carry in your car provided you have a permit from any state.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  7. #7
    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    Well if the state has no law against OC for someone 18 or older you don't need to permit except fro like you said possibly vehicle carry or possibly pfz exemptions. I know in Pennsylvania even if you don't have a recognized permit you can still carry in your car provided you have a permit from any state.
    the way i understood everything is that to carry in most other states you need a permit, even for open carry(with some additional exceptions for hunting),something to do with reciprocity. like our state,no permit needed for open carry but you have to have a license from your home state to open carry here, if you are not a resident.
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


  8. #8
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lil_freak_66 View Post
    the way i understood everything is that to carry in most other states you need a permit, even for open carry(with some additional exceptions for hunting),something to do with reciprocity. like our state,no permit needed for open carry but you have to have a license from your home state to open carry here, if you are not a resident.
    Actually in MI non-resident may open carry only on a non-resident permit and are exempt from 750.234d. If you were to go to a state like Alabama because there is no law regarding open carry you could travel there and open carry without a permit. Now if you were to go to Indiana you do need a permit as one is required to carry openly or concealed.

    28.432 Inapplicability of MCL 28.422; amendatory act as “Janet Kukuk act”.
    Sec. 12. (1) Section 2 does not apply to any of the following:
    (f) A United States citizen holding a license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by
    another state.
    No resident permit required there. Some would argue this would include a MI resident as would 750.234d but that's a whole different argument.
    750.234d.
    (2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
    (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.
    Again nothing about a resident permit is stated. They still would have to transport the gun the same way as someone without a permit.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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