I think the purpose of the pamphlet was to guide new carriers or outtastaters.
I wouldn't start mixing laws and AG Opinions. They aren't the same thing.
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VA Gun Rights Pamphlet Updated Again
- Thread starter carsontech
- Start date
I think the purpose of the pamphlet was to guide new carriers or outtastaters.
I wouldn't start mixing laws and AG Opinions. They aren't the same thing.
twpetry
Regular Member
I respect your opinion, however I personally think that if we are creating a pamphlet to inform people of their gun RIGHTS in Virginia, we should not put a place on an "Off-limits" list if they do in fact have a RIGHT to carry there.
If a new carrier or out of state carrier were to look at the law as written they may assume they are not allowed to carry in a place of worship. I say it is our responsibility, in creating such a pamphlet, to help clarify the law and educate them that they ARE allowed to carry there. Is that not the point of the pamphlet? otherwise why not just list the laws...
If a new carrier or out of state carrier were to look at the law as written they may assume they are not allowed to carry in a place of worship. I say it is our responsibility, in creating such a pamphlet, to help clarify the law and educate them that they ARE allowed to carry there. Is that not the point of the pamphlet? otherwise why not just list the laws...
Doesn't bother me either way but responsibility should go hand in hand with accuracy.
As AG, Bob McDonnell wrote an opinion that the state could not prevent carrying in State Forests but it was years after that that it was actually allowed.
twpetry
Regular Member
Fair enough, I guess we have to get to work on Lobby Day and push a bill through!
carsontech
Activist Member
I updated the pamphlet, again, with the following changes:
1. Added info how one can posses a handgun, while in a vehicle, on K-12 school grounds, with or without a CHP.
2. Moved the colleges and universities from the "Places Off-Limits While Carrying" section to the "Other Things to Know" section.
Link to updated pamphlet:
http://carsontech.webs.com/Gun%20Laws/VA%20Gun%20Rights%20Pamphlet%209-8-2012%20V2.pdf
I also updated the link and attachment in the original post.
As TFred mentioned, this pamphlet is getting CROWDED. In order to put more content in the pamphlet, and to make it look better, the whole thing will need to be totally re-organized or re-created from scratch, with a fresh approach.
I'm merely updating a pamphlet that already existed, created by another user. The pamphlet was fine "back when", but the amount of exceptions in gun laws that are created each legislative session could take up more than a few pamphlets by themselves, even when summarized. What ever happened to repealing laws instead of modifying them?
1. Added info how one can posses a handgun, while in a vehicle, on K-12 school grounds, with or without a CHP.
2. Moved the colleges and universities from the "Places Off-Limits While Carrying" section to the "Other Things to Know" section.
Link to updated pamphlet:
http://carsontech.webs.com/Gun%20Laws/VA%20Gun%20Rights%20Pamphlet%209-8-2012%20V2.pdf
I also updated the link and attachment in the original post.
As TFred mentioned, this pamphlet is getting CROWDED. In order to put more content in the pamphlet, and to make it look better, the whole thing will need to be totally re-organized or re-created from scratch, with a fresh approach.
I'm merely updating a pamphlet that already existed, created by another user. The pamphlet was fine "back when", but the amount of exceptions in gun laws that are created each legislative session could take up more than a few pamphlets by themselves, even when summarized. What ever happened to repealing laws instead of modifying them?
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What ever happened to repealing laws instead of modifying them?
A very good question!
Numenor
Regular Member
I suppose one could consider eliminating the quoting of entire law sections and replacing them with a short summary with links to the actual law. Sorta like is already done in the first two sections. That would free up a good amount of space.
Steeler-gal
Regular Member
I like the pamphlet. Thanks for keeping it updated.
TFred
Regular Member
Apparently you missed the whole stink regarding the AG's opinion (essentially confirmed the point you were "under the impression of"), and the swift reaction by some of those schools to change their prohibition from "policy" to "regulation".
In Virginia, the regulations published in the Administrative Code of Virginia do have the force of law. So your impression is no longer accurate for those schools which have gone through the process.
As Peter Nap mentioned for the church carry. The law has not changed. The AG's opinion might help you if you are arrested, charged and tried, but an opinion won't stop that from happening. It is not particularly uncommon to modify laws to reflect AG opinions, I agree wholeheartedly, this one would be a very good candidate for that. First choice, just eliminate that particular section altogether. Second choice clarify that self defense is a good and sufficient reason.
TFred
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2a4all
Regular Member
The trouble with summaries is they can be misleading, and they (generally) only reflect the opinion of the author. Probably not a good thing if the reader isn't familiar with the subject matter.
The Virginia State Police website (http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms_StateLaws.shtm) has links to (what they consider to be) pertinent gun laws. There are no links here to the Virginia Administrative Code "regulations", which are a whole 'nuther universe of rules.
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2a4all
Regular Member
I updated the pamphlet, again, with the following changes:
1. Added info how one can posses a handgun, while in a vehicle, on K-12 school grounds, with or without a CHP.
2. Moved the colleges and universities from the "Places Off-Limits While Carrying" section to the "Other Things to Know" section.
Link to updated pamphlet:
http://carsontech.webs.com/Gun Laws/VA Gun Rights Pamphlet 9-8-2012 V2.pdf
I also updated the link and attachment in the original post.
As TFred mentioned, this pamphlet is getting CROWDED. In order to put more content in the pamphlet, and to make it look better, the whole thing will need to be totally re-organized or re-created from scratch, with a fresh approach.
I'm merely updating a pamphlet that already existed, created by another user. The pamphlet was fine "back when", but the amount of exceptions in gun laws that are created each legislative session could take up more than a few pamphlets by themselves, even when summarized. What ever happened to repealing laws instead of modifying them?
Regarding note on Wisconsin on lower left: "Wisconsin (WI) only honors VA non-resident permits."
If you are a non-resident of Michigan with a valid concealed pistol permit from your home state, Michigan will recognize your permit.
http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,4643,7-123-1591_3503_4654-10957--,00.html
ed
Founder's Club Member - Moderator
I am not a fan of "absolutes"..
So while I would not do so, where is the cite that says I can't open carry just inside my waste band with no holster?
Brooke is 14, and she has at many times legally open carried a handgun in VA.
Ed
carsontech
Activist Member
Good catch. I've been meaning to take care of the holster tidbit when I took over updating the pamphlet, as that tidbit has been in there since before I started updated the pamphlet. When I added the "legal minimum age" bit I didn't add that there are exceptions that allow juveniles to posses and carry firearms.
I know that other states are like this as well, such as where I reside now, South Carolina. I'll add the footnote for states like this in the "States that honor Virginia's CHP" section.
Updating/fixing all the above now...
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carsontech
Activist Member
Updated/fixed pamphlet based on Ed's and Grapeshot's concerns:
http://carsontech.webs.com/Gun%20Laws/VA%20Gun%20Rights%20Pamphlet%209-9-2012.pdf
Updated link in OP as well.
http://carsontech.webs.com/Gun%20Laws/VA%20Gun%20Rights%20Pamphlet%209-9-2012.pdf
Updated link in OP as well.
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Don't know if anyone's thanked you for the work yet but...Thanks!:dude:
Thundar
Regular Member
I thought the drinking prohibition was only if you entered an establishment while concealing. Or put another way: Is any law broken if you enter OCing, but switch to concealed cary after entering?
TFred
Regular Member
Letter vs. spirit of the law, and without benefit of legislative intent, spirit doesn't mean much, I agree.
However, the practical question to answer is: How do you convince either the LEO who is about to arrest you, or the judge who is about to convict you, that you entered while OCing and then concealed?
TFred
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I think that if you conceal the fact that you are concealing and imbibe your case will find disfavor amongst jurists. That technicality may save your bacon, but not before it is subjected to the heat of the [strike]frying pan[/strike] courtroom.
Plus, let's not forget:
J1. Any person permitted to carry a concealed handgun, who is under the influence of alcohol or illegal drugs while carrying such handgun in a public place, shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.
Note that there is no minimum standard for "under the influence."
http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/18.2-308.HTM
Thundar
Regular Member
An element of the crime is that you concealed upon entry then consumed the good stuff. No proof that you were concealing when you entered means no crime.