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Thread: University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee official policy

  1. #1
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    Angry University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee official policy

    I'm a student @ UWM and just received an email that I've been expecting for a while, thought I'd share it with everybody:

    --------------------------------------------------

    October 27, 2011


    To: UWM Faculty, Staff and Students

    The University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee is committed to maintaining a safe
    campus environment and to ensuring that it acts to the extent possible
    to shield its students and employees from harm. As the result of recent
    state legislation (2011 Wisconsin Act 35), UWM has developed the
    Firearms and Dangerous Weapons Policy, which explains how Act 35 will be
    implemented at UWM. According to the UWM policy:

    1. Firearms and dangerous weapons are prohibited from all UWM buildings,
    including residence halls. This restriction applies to all individuals
    except law enforcement. Signs declaring this prohibition are being
    installed at entrances to all buildings.

    2. Firearms are banned in outdoor spaces within 1,000 feet of Hartford
    Elementary School (this area covers most of the outdoor spaces on the
    UWM East Side campus) except for handguns carried in a concealed manner
    by concealed weapon license holders.

    3. Firearms and dangerous weapons are banned at UWM special events where
    admission is restricted.

    4. Firearms and dangerous weapons are banned in UWM-owned or -controlled
    vehicles, such as UWM shuttles and fleet vehicles.

    5. Employees of UWM, with the exception of university law enforcement
    officials, are prohibited from carrying firearms or other dangerous
    weapons while engaged in any employment activity on behalf of UWM,
    whether on or off campus.

    Additional details about these issues - including answers to frequently
    asked questions and limited exceptions to the policy - are available in
    the Firearms and Dangerous Weapons Policy, which is online at

    https://www4.uwm.edu/secu/docs/other/S24.5.pdf

    Any questions not answered by the policy or the posted FAQs should be
    directed to the UWM Police Department:

    uwm-police@uwm.edu

  2. #2
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    I'm sure that policy will stay long when someone gets robbed, assaulted, raped, or murdered.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Woah, just a quick question. #2 says guns are banned within a 1000 feet of a school except when licensed and carried in a concealed manner. Does that mean you can only carry concealed within the magic 1000 ft bubble? You can't open carry with a license?
    You can speak softy and carry a big stick, but I'll stick to my guns.

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TaurusToter View Post
    Woah, just a quick question. #2 says guns are banned within a 1000 feet of a school except when licensed and carried in a concealed manner. Does that mean you can only carry concealed within the magic 1000 ft bubble? You can't open carry with a license?
    Typical lies/misinformation. You can [legally] open or conceal within 1000' of a school as long as you have a permit.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    That's what I thought, but started to wonder when I read that. Wonder how many tickets/fines/lawsuits that email will generate
    You can speak softy and carry a big stick, but I'll stick to my guns.

    Member - Wisconsin Carry, Inc. http://ww.wisconsincarry.org
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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Let's just remember this rule. In WI, if you can carry concealed, you can carry open as well.

    The permit is NOT only a concealed carry permit but also expands the places one can oc as well.

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    All the statutes involved in CCW issues, allow exceptions, or special opportunities to people who are "licensees" or "out-of-state licensees". They do not provide special treatment for having the weapon itself concealed.
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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Here is the email I got back.

    Paul-

    Thank you for your email.

    UWS 18 of Wisconsin Administrative Code (Conduct on University Lands) bans all open carry of firearms and dangerous weapons on university lands. There is nothing in the new law that overturns UWS 18 as to open carry, including as to CCW permit holders on university lands. Thus, UWM will continue to enforce UWS 18 as to open carry of firearms and dangerous weapons.










    Michael J. Marzion
    Chief of Police

    University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee Police Department
    P.O. Box 413
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53201

    The mission of the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee Police Department
    is to provide a safe and secure environment in which to learn, live and work.

  9. #9
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    Actually, the new law doesn't state that the firearm must be concealed.

    943.13(1m) Whoever does any of the following is subject to a Class B forfeiture:
    .....
    2. While carrying a firearm, enters or remains in any part of a nonresidential building, grounds of a nonresidential building, or land that the actor does not own or occupy after the owner of the building, grounds, or land, if that part of the building, grounds, or land has not been leased to another person, or the occupant of that part of the building, grounds, or land has notified the actor not to enter or remain in that part of the building, grounds, or land while carrying a firearm or with that type of firearm. This subdivision does not apply to a part of a building, grounds, or land occupied by the state or by a local governmental unit, to a privately or publicly owned building on the grounds of a university or college, or to the grounds of or land owned or occupied by a university or college, or, if the firearm is in a vehicle driven or parked in the parking facility, to any part of a building, grounds, or land used as a parking facility.


    The DOJ "FAQ" says a permit holder can carry a concealed weapon on university grounds. However, the law itself does NOT say the weapon has to be concealed. The DOJ FAQ is not the law. So in actuality, pre-emption voids UWS 18 since that rule would be more restrictive than the law of ACT 35.

  10. #10
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmwguy11 View Post
    Actually, the new law doesn't state that the firearm must be concealed.

    943.13(1m) Whoever does any of the following is subject to a Class B forfeiture:
    .....
    2. While carrying a firearm, enters or remains in any part of a nonresidential building, grounds of a nonresidential building, or land that the actor does not own or occupy after the owner of the building, grounds, or land, if that part of the building, grounds, or land has not been leased to another person, or the occupant of that part of the building, grounds, or land has notified the actor not to enter or remain in that part of the building, grounds, or land while carrying a firearm or with that type of firearm. This subdivision does not apply to a part of a building, grounds, or land occupied by the state or by a local governmental unit, to a privately or publicly owned building on the grounds of a university or college, or to the grounds of or land owned or occupied by a university or college, or, if the firearm is in a vehicle driven or parked in the parking facility, to any part of a building, grounds, or land used as a parking facility.


    The DOJ "FAQ" says a permit holder can carry a concealed weapon on university grounds. However, the law itself does NOT say the weapon has to be concealed. The DOJ FAQ is not the law. So in actuality, pre-emption voids UWS 18 since that rule would be more restrictive than the law of ACT 35.
    Someone else pointed this out. Preemption doesn't apply to universities, 66.0409(1)(b) says: ""Political subdivision" means a city, village, town or county."

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    Also I can't find anywhere in UWS 18 where it talks about openly carrying a firearm.

    http://legis.wisconsin.gov/rsb/code/uws/uws018.pdf

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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    Someone else pointed this out. Preemption doesn't apply to universities, 66.0409(1)(b) says: ""Political subdivision" means a city, village, town or county."
    So I'm confused then. If state law says that they can't ban weapons on university grounds, but yet they can ban open carry because preemption doesn't apply to them, then why can't they just ban weapons altogether? If their administrative code allows them to write their own rules, then why can't they just ban all firearms anyways?

    Logic would indicate that if they can't ban concealed carry, they also cannot ban open carry. It would be all or nothing, since the new ACT 35 doesn't specify that the weapon has to be concealed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    I'm sure that policy will stay long when someone gets robbed, assaulted, raped, or murdered.
    that already happens on uw milwakee my best freind from high school went there and he said people were getting robbed and or assaulted weekly
    SCOTT

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oliverclotheshoff View Post
    that already happens on uw milwakee my best freind from high school went there and he said people were getting robbed and or assaulted weekly
    Yes, but now they can be held liable because they are posting signs.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Quote Originally Posted by bmwguy11 View Post
    Also I can't find anywhere in UWS 18 where it talks about openly carrying a firearm.

    http://legis.wisconsin.gov/rsb/code/uws/uws018.pdf
    I did some searching

    UWS18.10 Offenses against Public Safety

    (3) DANGEROUS WEAPONS. (a) No person may carry, possess
    or use any dangerous weapon on university lands or in university
    buildings or facilities,
    except with the written approval of the chief
    administrative officer or for law enforcement purposes.
    (b) No person may display or portray as real any object that
    resembles a dangerous weapon on university lands or in university
    buildings or facilities, except with the written approval of the
    chief administrative officer.
    (c) Dangerous weapons in violation of this subsection may be
    confiscated
    and removed from university lands by police.
    (d) In this subsection, the term “dangerous weapon” has the
    meaning specified in s. 939.22 (10), Stats.
    UWS18.11 Offenses against public peace and order.

    (7)(b) No person who is convicted of any crime involving danger to property or persons as a result of conduct by him or her on university lands may enter any university lands within 2 years of the effective date of his or her conviction without the written consent of the chief administrative officer
    ...
    (7)(f) For the purposes of s. 36.35 (3), Stats., and par. (b), “crime involving danger to property or persons” shall mean any crime defined in ...
    941.23 Carrying a Concealed Weapon
    941.235 Carrying firearm in state or political subdivision building
    941.29 Illegal possession of a firearm (criminal or mental history)...
    Here is the pertinent area of the Wisconsin statutes, effective Nov. 1, 2011, which overlap the above subsections of Administrative Rules UWS18.10.

    The below statute subsections and paragraphs, are clear in what areas can be prohibited to firearms carry, thru notification and signage, but I am not sure that they spell out what areas we must be allowed to enter while carrying firearms. That may be assumed as a function of Article 1 Section 25. I don't know.

    943.13 Trespass to land.

    943.13 (1m) Whoever does any of the following is subject to a Class B forfeiture:
    ...
    943.13(1m)(c)5. Enters or remains in any privately or publicly owned building on the grounds of a university or college, if the university or college has notified the actor not to enter or remain in the building while carrying a firearm or with that type of firearm. This subdivision does not apply to a person who leases residential or business premises in the building or, if the firearm is in a vehicle driven or parked in the parking facility, to any part of the building used as a parking facility.
    Last edited by E6chevron; 10-28-2011 at 06:58 PM.
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    I took some pictures of the signs they're posting everywhere. Including the black border on the signs, they're just slightly over 5x7.


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    Quote Originally Posted by E6chevron View Post
    I did some searching





    Here is the pertinent area of the Wisconsin statutes, effective Nov. 1, 2011, which overlap the above subsections of Administrative Rules UWS18.10.

    The below statute subsections and paragraphs, are clear in what areas can be prohibited to firearms carry, thru notification and signage, but I am not sure that they spell out what areas we must be allowed to enter while carrying firearms. That may be assumed as a function of Article 1 Section 25. I don't know.
    It's in the new law, same place you were in, just a different sub section:

    943.13(1m) Whoever does any of the following is subject to a Class B forfeiture:
    .....
    2. While carrying a firearm, enters or remains in any part of a nonresidential building, grounds of a nonresidential building, or land that the actor does not own or occupy after the owner of the building, grounds, or land, if that part of the building, grounds, or land has not been leased to another person, or the occupant of that part of the building, grounds, or land has notified the actor not to enter or remain in that part of the building, grounds, or land while carrying a firearm or with that type of firearm. This subdivision does not apply to a part of a building, grounds, or land occupied by the state or by a local governmental unit, to a privately or publicly owned building on the grounds of a university or college, or to the grounds of or land owned or occupied by a university or college, or, if the firearm is in a vehicle driven or parked in the parking facility, to any part of a building, grounds, or land used as a parking facility.

  18. #18
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    So we need to add that University rule to the list of things that need changing.

    Quote Originally Posted by UWM admin idiots
    The University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee is committed to maintaining a safe campus environment and to ensuring that it acts to the extent possible to shield its students and employees from harm.
    Obviously not, or they'd pay attention to the massacres that have happened at colleges & universities across the country, ALL in "(legal) gun-free zones".

    2. Firearms are banned in outdoor spaces within 1,000 feet of Hartford Elementary School (this area covers most of the outdoor spaces on the UWM East Side campus) except for handguns carried in a concealed manner by concealed weapon license holders.
    Almost right. Strike "in a concealed manner".
    I'm almost tempted to organize a protest to make a point.
    Maybe a nice lunch picnic in the plaza, or by the fountain.
    Almost.

    Quote Originally Posted by protias
    Typical lies/misinformation. You can [legally] open or conceal within 1000' of a school as long as you have a permit.
    What he said.

    4. Firearms and dangerous weapons are banned in UWM-owned or -controlled vehicles, such as UWM shuttles and fleet vehicles.
    They can't do that, at least for the shuttles. Have to re-read the law about company-owned vehicles.

    5. Employees of UWM, with the exception of university law enforcement officials, are prohibited from carrying firearms or other dangerous weapons while engaged in any employment activity on behalf of UWM, whether on or off campus.
    Unless they're in their own vehicle. Forgot that part.
    Looks like an opportunity for another chapter of SCCC.
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    I think you guys are forgetting that Universities can make up all of their own rules. Such as: requiring a permit to draw on the sidewalks with chalk, requiring all students to carry their student ID at all times (and surrender it when asked for), etc etc.

    The concealed only within 1000ft of the school is no different than the rest of these rules: ridiculous, but they're free to make them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by skky View Post
    If you people do not like their policy, stay away. MY OPINION
    Jeri Bonivia has spoken!
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    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignAxe View Post
    I think you guys are forgetting that Universities can make up all of their own rules. Such as: requiring a permit to draw on the sidewalks with chalk, requiring all students to carry their student ID at all times (and surrender it when asked for), etc etc.

    The concealed only within 1000ft of the school is no different than the rest of these rules: ridiculous, but they're free to make them.
    Regardless if we like it or not, they open themselves to liability.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignAxe View Post
    I think you guys are forgetting that Universities can make up all of their own rules. Such as: requiring a permit to draw on the sidewalks with chalk, requiring all students to carry their student ID at all times (and surrender it when asked for), etc etc.

    The concealed only within 1000ft of the school is no different than the rest of these rules: ridiculous, but they're free to make them.
    But again that's what doesn't make sense to me.

    If they are allowed to draw their own rules, then why don't they just ban weapons on campus grounds completely? Hence my thought that since the law doesn't specify the weapon has to be concealed, open carry (with a CCW permit) would be completely legal.

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    This is confusing, I have spent a lot of time, unwinding this, and I believe I have got the explanation right, now.

    First some terminology:

    943 is a CHAPTER of the state statutes, titled "Crimes against property"
    https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/943

    943.13 is a SECTION titled "Trespass to land"
    https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/sta...utes/943/II/13

    943.13(1m) is a SUB-SECTION "Whoever does any of the following is subject to a Class B forfeiture:"
    https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/sta...s/943/II/13/1m

    943.13(1m)(c) is a PARAGRAPH [this one has No title or text]
    https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/sta...943/II/13/1m/c

    943.13(1m)(c)2. is a SUBDIVISION
    https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/sta...3/II/13/1m/c/2.

    I'm going to breakup the text in this subdivision, to make it easier to read, and add some notes inside [brackets]:

    2. While carrying a firearm, enters or remains in any part of a nonresidential building, grounds of a nonresidential building, or land that the actor does not own or occupy after the owner of the building, grounds, or land, if that part of the building, grounds, or land has not been leased to another person, or the occupant of that part of the building, grounds, or land has notified the actor not to enter or remain in that part of the building, grounds, or land while carrying a firearm or with that type of firearm.

    This subdivision does not apply

    [1] to a part of a building, grounds, or land occupied by the state or by a local governmental unit,

    [2] to a privately or publicly owned building on the grounds of a university or college, or

    [3] to the grounds of or land owned or occupied by a university or college, or,

    [4] if the firearm is in a vehicle driven or parked in the parking facility, to any part of a building, grounds, or land used as a parking facility.
    You can see that subdivision 943.13(1m)(c)2.

    * Does not apply to buildings on the grounds of a university or college.

    * It does not apply to the grounds of or land owned or occuped by a university or college.


    It was intended to apply to firearms carrying by people who don't own or occupy,

    other nonresidential buildings, or grounds of nonresidential building, or land.

    Notification of prohibition come from the occupant of that part of the property or the owner of non-leased property.

    such as office / business buildings, nursing homes, adult family homes, hospices. It allows the individual occupants to post or not post their part of the building.

    943.13 (1e) (cm) “Nonresidential building” includes
    a nursing home as defined in s. 50.01 (3), a community−
    based residential facility as defined in s. 50.01 (1g), a residential
    care apartment complex as defined in s. 50.01
    (1d), an adult family home as defined in s. 50.01 (1), and
    a hospice as defined in s. 50.90 (1).
    Subdivision 943.13(1m)(c)5. is the one applicable to prohibition notification of property on university or college grounds, as I posted earlier.

    https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/sta...3/II/13/1m/c/5.
    Last edited by E6chevron; 10-30-2011 at 06:48 PM.
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  24. #24
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E6chevron View Post
    This is confusing, I have spent a lot of time, unwinding this, and I beleive I have got the explanation right, now.

    First some terminology:

    943 is a CHAPTER of the state statutes "Crimes against property"
    943.13 is a SECTION "Trespass to land"
    https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/sta...utes/943/II/13

    943.13(1m) is a SUB-SECTION "Whoever does any of the following is subject to a Class B forfeiture:"
    https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/sta...s/943/II/13/1m

    943.13(1m)(c) is a DIVISION [this one has No title or text]
    https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/sta...943/II/13/1m/c

    943.13(1m)(c)2. is a SUBDIVISION
    https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/sta...3/II/13/1m/c/2.

    I'm going to breakup the lines in this subdivision, to make it easier to read, and add some notes inside [brackets]:



    You can see that subdivision 943.13(1m)(c)2.

    * Does not apply to buildings on the grounds of a university or college.

    * It does not apply to the grounds of or land owned or occuped by a university or college.


    It was intended to apply to firearms carrying by people who don't own or occupy,

    other nonresidential buildings, or gounds of nonresidential building, or land.

    Notification of prohibition come from the occupant of that part of the property or the owner of non-leased property.

    such as office / business buildings, nursing homes, adult family homes, hospices. It allows the individual occupants to post or not post their part of the building.



    Subdivision 943.13(1m)(c)5. is the one applicable to prohibition notification of property on university or college grounds, as I posted earlier.

    https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/doc...943.13(1m)(c)5.

    So.... to recap, the UW system cannot stop me from being ANYWHERE on the grounds (not inside a building) open or concealed carrying?

  25. #25
    mattwestm
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    I understand that a student can be suspended or expelled by OC or CC on campus or in buildings, but what can happen to a regular citizen? I'm guessing the worst they can do is ask you to leave and if you refuse, charge you with trespassing.

    I'm actually considering UWM for graduate school and am disappointed with this decision. However, I might conceal carry on campus anyways as long as I'm not breaking any state law.

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