• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Pierce county district court...again. Lawyerly advice welcome.

kparker

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2006
Messages
1,326
Location
Tacoma, Washington, USA
TechnoWeenie,

Surely you aren't claiming that the public entrance to the County-City building, or the public sidewalk in front of it, are not "in public"?
 

DCR

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2008
Messages
162
Location
, ,
Other angle on getting the police report re: your ticket

Most states don't allow FOI requests to be used as a means of discovery in a case. You'll have to enter your not guilty plea and then request all information about your case in a discovery request. Discovery is better for you anyway, because they can't hide behind the "ongoing case" excuse they use to deny FOI requests. Make sure you request everything - all written reports, recordings, the officer's training certificates, maintenance requests for the radar/laser unit (if applicable), etc.

The rest of the public building encounter...well, you'll be stuck with FOI on that, as it didn't result in a case.

Best,

DCR
 

JoeSparky

Centurion
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,621
Location
Pleasant Grove, Utah, USA
Did I hear this correctly, No Holster, No Ammunition, No Accessories for the Handgun when returning to check your firearm with Identification?
Interesting!

Yep, I heard that as well. So, you can't have a holster, magazines, ammunition, accesseories WHEN YOU BRING IN YOU HANDGUN TO CHECK IT IN? What are you expected to do-- stick in into your waistband with no magazine and ammo?
 

Just Us

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Messages
248
Location
West Fargo, ND
He can't check the firearm without ID. Sounded like he needs to store it safely and when he comes back in he can't have accessories for it. That looked like the back entrance. They will check the holster, ammo, extra mag and so on. I did it back in july and I'll do it again Monday when I have to go back. They held my cpl with everything and took a inventory of the stuff. They give you a card with the locker # it'll be held in. They'll also let you have a chance to make sure everything is there.

This is my insight.
 

sempercarry

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
378
Location
America
This is my insight.

There are many like it but this one is mine!! Sorry, I couldn't help it. The thing is that he said he needed a photo ID OR a CPL to make sure that it is getting back to the correct person. A CPL does not have a picture on it so how can he be sure that I will be the right guy. They also have you fill out a form with your name, DOB, adress and phone number to go with the gun. If the card, and being able to recite all that info verbadim, is not enough to prove you are the owner I don't know what is. The thing is that he only wants an ID/CPL so that he can run you through their system. Out of curiosity I wonder what would happen if I did give him an ID and told him not to run it. "here is my ID but I don't consent to a backround check". Be interesting to listen to the scanner while I was in there to see if he ran it...or if would let me in at all.
 

TechnoWeenie

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2007
Messages
2,084
Location
, ,
TechnoWeenie,

Surely you aren't claiming that the public entrance to the County-City building, or the public sidewalk in front of it, are not "in public"?


No, merely stating that officers, even on duty, in certain circumstances, have a privacy interest.

Just because an officer is on duty does not mean you can record him anywhere/everywhere and under any circumstance.
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
No, merely stating that officers, even on duty, in certain circumstances, have a privacy interest.

Just because an officer is on duty does not mean you can record him anywhere/everywhere and under any circumstance.

In very narrow circumstances....we have been it through and through again. In the course of "public" duty they have no expectation of privacy. Period. Read Clark vs. Seattle. Plus you keep leaving out the "morever" part of Flora. Read the dissent on Johnson the opposing judge viewed it as you do he was overruled.
 
Last edited:

TechnoWeenie

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2007
Messages
2,084
Location
, ,
In very narrow circumstances....we have been it through and through again. In the course of "public" duty they have no expectation of privacy. Period. Read Clark vs. Seattle. Plus you keep leaving out the "morever" part of Flora. Read the dissent on Johnson the opposing judge viewed it as you do he was overruled.

Key word bing 'public', opposite of private.
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
Key word bing 'public', opposite of private.

Yes public servant, public employee, public official, they all have no expectation of privacy in their "public" dealings. It doesn't have to be with others present or in public.

I have asked several lawyers about this and they agree with me. So it is misleading when folks insist it has to be "in" public. It is a law restricting government from infringing on individual rights of private citizens and was drafted to protect them from intrusion by law enforcement not the other way around. Hence the words double edged sword.
 

Difdi

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
987
Location
Seattle, Washington, USA
No, merely stating that officers, even on duty, in certain circumstances, have a privacy interest.

Just because an officer is on duty does not mean you can record him anywhere/everywhere and under any circumstance.

Quite true. Photographing a uniformed officer sitting on a toilet in a closed restroom stall is indeed a violation of his reasonable expectation of privacy. So is pantsing him and posting his underwear choice to YouTube. Likewise, trying to barge into the secure area of a jail to take pictures of corrections officers is a non-starter. Crossing the yellow taped perimeter is a silly idea as well.

But aside from things like that, there is almost no situation where a uniformed officer has any expectation of privacy in a place open to the public.
 
Last edited:

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
Quite true. Photographing a uniformed officer sitting on a toilet in a closed restroom stall is indeed a violation of his reasonable expectation of privacy. So is pantsing him and posting his underwear choice to YouTube. Likewise, trying to barge into the secure area of a jail to take pictures of corrections officers is a non-starter. Crossing the yellow taped perimeter is a silly idea as well.

But aside from things like that, there is almost no situation where a uniformed officer has any expectation of privacy in a place open to the public.

Agreed. But most those things are done in "private". And interfering with an investigation or obstructing would be illegal. Otherwise record away.

People have rights not government, and when you decide to work for the people in government you sacrifice rights to a limited degree. The quicker our servants realize we are the authority and the privileged and not them the better.

Also these laws being discussed were specifically written to protect people from the police not the other way around.
 

Just Us

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Messages
248
Location
West Fargo, ND
I went to the courthouse this morning and checked in the firearm, no problem. The thing I didn't like they unloaded both magazines. Clearing the chamber is no problem with me; but the magazines, my opinion, is overdone!
 

amzbrady

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2009
Messages
3,521
Location
Marysville, Washington, USA
I went to the courthouse this morning and checked in the firearm, no problem. The thing I didn't like they unloaded both magazines. Clearing the chamber is no problem with me; but the magazines, my opinion, is overdone!

Did you load the mags back up standing there or wait till after you left?

I have not seen any law about handleing ammo or messing with a magizine in public?
 

TechnoWeenie

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2007
Messages
2,084
Location
, ,
Serpa FTW.

I can unload/clear my weapon while it's still holstered.

Ditto on loading it and chambering a round...

:banana:
 

BigDave

Opt-Out Members
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
3,456
Location
Yakima, Washington, USA
Interesting, most of those who are strong supporters of LEO again stay out of another thread where their comrades have banded together to trample a citizens rights. Where is your public statements of outrage of this? Or is this just "another isolated" incident?

There is no doubt SVG I am a strong supporter of law enforcement along with the aspect all laws apply to all equally.
As discussed between us and others before there are some bad officers but by far there are very good officers. In this reported incident there is as I acknowledged earlier that sempercarry was involved in and suggested a path to address those issues, with the added information as to unloaded, no holster or other equipment.

Now we see a few days later another forum member was there and had mostly no issue except for his unloaded magazines which again outside the scope of the RCW's. The two should compare notes to see the difference of just a couple days with drastically different results.

I do not doubt that one officer can make a good or a poor encounter which has happened to me when I was dealing with the city of Yakima Ordinances. I was awaiting a meeting with the chief and an officer seemly want to be nosy or impress someone asked what I was talking to the chief about, so I told him politely that the city had out dated ordinance that were prohibiting lawfully carried firearms in the city parks and that State Preemption repeals that ordinance and his position was that he did not want to argue semantics and he knew the Chief well and know what he is going to tell me and so I said okay what is he going to tell me.
His reply was that if he saw me carrying a gun in a park he would cite me and see me in court, so I said okay well lets see what the Chief says.
After the meeting where the Chief agreed completely agreed with me and that he supported law abiding citizens to lawfully carry and that if I was ever cited, he said just bring it up to the Judge and the charge would be thrown out. The Chief later also assisted me with the City Council to have this and a couple of other ordinances removed.
As to the Officer that was nosy when I left told him nope you were wrong and the Chief agreed with me.

SVG your reply mostly directed at supporters of law enforcement and trying to entice them into opposing your position well here it is. In my eyes you are on the extreme side of issues with reduced laws and let the citizens take care of matters and I am more toward the conservative side acknowledging there are those who need that protection as there will be those who will want to take advantage of others be it with current laws or reduced laws as you advocate. There will be those still even armed with be at a greater disadvantage.
Another issue with extremist is that they are wanting to live in a time that benefit them mostly and I live as many do in the now, today this usually cause for contention.

sempercarry I still do recommend following through in a clam well informed professional manner.
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
There is no doubt SVG I am a strong supporter of law enforcement along with the aspect all laws apply to all equally.

As discussed between us and others before there are some bad officers but by far there are very good officers. In this reported incident there is as I acknowledged earlier that sempercarry was involved in and suggested a path to address those issues, with the added information as to unloaded, no holster or other equipment.

Now we see a few days later another forum member was there and had mostly no issue except for his unloaded magazines which again outside the scope of the RCW's. The two should compare notes to see the difference of just a couple days with drastically different results.

I do not doubt that one officer can make a good or a poor encounter which has happened to me when I was dealing with the city of Yakima Ordinances. I was awaiting a meeting with the chief and an officer seemly want to be nosy or impress someone asked what I was talking to the chief about, so I told him politely that the city had out dated ordinance that were prohibiting lawfully carried firearms in the city parks and that State Preemption repeals that ordinance and his position was that he did not want to argue semantics and he knew the Chief well and know what he is going to tell me and so I said okay what is he going to tell me.
His reply was that if he saw me carrying a gun in a park he would cite me and see me in court, so I said okay well lets see what the Chief says.
After the meeting where the Chief agreed completely agreed with me and that he supported law abiding citizens to lawfully carry and that if I was ever cited, he said just bring it up to the Judge and the charge would be thrown out. The Chief later also assisted me with the City Council to have this and a couple of other ordinances removed.
As to the Officer that was nosy when I left told him nope you were wrong and the Chief agreed with me.

SVG your reply mostly directed at supporters of law enforcement and trying to entice them into opposing your position well here it is. In my eyes you are on the extreme side of issues with reduced laws and let the citizens take care of matters and I am more toward the conservative side acknowledging there are those who need that protection as there will be those who will want to take advantage of others be it with current laws or reduced laws as you advocate. There will be those still even armed with be at a greater disadvantage.
Another issue with extremist is that they are wanting to live in a time that benefit them mostly and I live as many do in the now, today this usually cause for contention.

sempercarry I still do recommend following through in a clam well informed professional manner.

Funny it wasn't just one officer, and you think this thread had nothing to do with the change? You do realize LEO read these threads? My point was that it was several officers abusing their authority and trampling rights, but the claim it is just a "few bad apples" don't hold water. (See my "No Bad Apple" rant) And I see no condemnation of these officers by those who are strong supporters. Step up and condemn them.

Extremist? LOl that is funny. I suppose Jefferson was an "extremist", how about Madison? How about Martin Luther King?

I don't want to live in a time that benefits me mostly, I wanna live in a time of Freedom and Liberty and I want to work to bring that back? Why do some find freedom and liberty so frightening? Because it doesn't benefit them? Liberty and Freedom benefits all. The courts and laws should exist when others infringe on that and for no other reason. It seems to me though many "conservatives" have a hard time wanting to let go of their brand of fascism. And when people point out the fallacies of their brand of fascism, they go on attack using demagoguery and unfounded rationalizations instead of proving their points with facts and logic.

Many of the current "laws" only restrict freedom and give people the false sense of protection. People need to have some personal responsibility and do for themselves when wronged. I don't care who you are you are guilty of breaking some law, and no amount of arrogance can contradict that, that is wrong. It is wrong when prosecutors and Law Enforcement, look for new ways to "interpret" law to entrap people going about there business. Like Josh's case.

Oh and wasn't trying to "entice" anyone, just making an observation that has proven true so far. So are you condemning those officers or giving them a pass?
 

Jeff Hayes

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
2,569
Location
Long gone
As discussed between us and others before there are some bad officers but by far there are very good officers.

Dave in my opinion there are bad officers out there and then there are the officers that know about the bad officers and do nothing about it. The ones that do nothing about the bad officers are even worse than the regular bad officers because they enable the bad ones. Just look at the Otto Zehm case here in Spokane where officers lied for the bad officer. Any way my point is there are a lot more bad Cops out there than just a few. If a Cop will not arrest his partner when he sees him commit a crime then he is a bad Cop and part of the problem IMHO. Go to officer.com and read the comments by the cops about arresting or tickiting a fellow officer and you will see what I mean. Its a slippery slope from letting a fellow officer off for speeding to ignoring that extra kick to turning his head when someone is killed. Like it or not this is where we are at the good Cops are fewer and fewer and I trust none of them that I do not know very well.
 

Just Us

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Messages
248
Location
West Fargo, ND
Did you load the mags back up standing there or wait till after you left?

I have not seen any law about handleing ammo or messing with a magizine in public?

He did ask me not to load it in the building, so stepped right outside and used the recycling can as a table. Chambered and all just outside the doors. As to 98th street, I've never been able to check one in.
 
Top