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Thread: OC Questions...

  1. #1
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    OC Questions...

    Hey all,

    I just have some questions about OC. I have been looking into OC for a little while, and while I understand that OC is legal for the time being, I am concerned about being arrested by a police officer. I understand that I could be arrested for anything at any time, but I am part of the reserves, and this might not blow over so well. Is there anyone who OCs on a daily bases that has been arrested recently for OCing? Also, can someone cite me the statute, for example CGS xx-xxx, so that I can know how the law is written so I can make my case to the officer, should the need arise. Another reason why I ask this is because if I were to be arrested, I may not have the funds to pay for an attorny or court fees. I am just trying to weigh things in, to try and make the best decision. I am all for the OC movement and I believe that it should be a right.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    I was arrested 5-16-2010 for Disorderly Conduct in Wallingford. I currently have a case in Federal Court against the officers for arresting me. (Burgess v Wallingford).

    It is fairly widely known to officers these days that breach of peace is not a valid statute to arrest with, but there are likely still some pockets of ignorance. If you are arrested, it almost certainly will not go anywhere in court.

    The new tactic I am seeing is officers trying to use Disorderly Conduct. Some officers have the idea that if they can get you to incriminate yourself by saying you were trying to cause alarm then they can get you for DC.

    http://ctgunrights.com/05.Legal.Stat...enzio_Memo.pdf

    Recommendations:

    - Do not risk anything you cannot afford to lose.
    - Watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
    - Watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fZQWjDVKE
    - Listen to the BFPE rule on an open carry case: http://ctgunrights.com/06.Audio/Fair...arry.Legal.MP3
    - You are not required by a state statute to produce ID if you are not stopped for RAS of a crime. If you don't understand RAS, you need to research Reasonable Articulable Suspicion, Terry v Ohio and Hiibel v Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada
    - While you are not required to show ID, if you want to lessen your chances of being arrested by a bad officer, offer up your permit, be polite and professional, and say nothing you don't need to say.


    As far as statutes? 29-35 is the carry statute. It says nothing of concealed or open carry. There simply is no concealment statute. Laws don't make things legal, so you don't need a statute to allow open carry.

    In my experience, it is not worth carrying statutes or paperwork on you. The police won't read it. Even when they do, they just argue with it or say it isn't authoritative. Others may disagree. YMMV

    If I am threatened with arrest for open carrying, I simply inform them I will not resist arrest. This usually brings the conversation to a more civil tone. But that also comes from understanding that if they arrest you, it will be a false arrest.




    The fact is that you are unlikely to be contacted by police. If you are, you are likely to be detained, IDed and let go. And if you are arrested, the charges are likely to be dismissed. If they are not, you call an attorney and fight them. You will win if you were simply carrying unconcealed in a holster and doing nothing else wrong.


    Hope this helps. Ask whatever you want. We can also put on a get together if you would like to OC (or CC and spectate) where at least one other person will be OCing.
    Last edited by Rich B; 10-28-2011 at 04:16 PM.

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    To the best of my knowlage there are no statutes that say OC is legal just as there are none that say drinking soda is legal. They refer to what is illegal and nowhere does it state that you must concealed carry.
    Now on to your root question. I think you should do what feels right for you. I understand your concerns as they are some of my own as well but case after case has been proven in CT courts that OC is legal and barring other circumstances reason alone to arrest a citizen. At the end of the day you are the one who must make the decision as to CC to comply or OC to excersize a right.

    :::EDIT::: He beat me to it and has far more experience with the subject than I do.
    Last edited by smokeyburnout; 10-28-2011 at 04:13 PM.

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    Rich_B: I am aware of your lawsuit, though I have not looked into it or the other that you mentioned, but I will. I appreciate the advice and links to the two youtube videos and that is a nice gesture on organizing an event for OC and I will have to take you up on it. However, at the moment, I am deployed, so it'll have to wait until I get back. I'm also on the CT gun talk forums, so I will give you a pm when I return back home, either on this forum or CTGT. I will make it a point OC with you guys, I might feel a little more comfortable if I am with like minded people. It's something that is likely going to take time for me to get used to it, and who better to do it with for the first time than people who want to exercise the same rights as me.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by downeyj80 View Post
    I will make it a point OC with you guys, I might feel a little more comfortable if I am with like minded people.
    It would be an honor to help military personnel reclaim their rights.

    Check your PMs.

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    Rich_B: I watched those videos that you posted and I got a lot out of them. Made a lot of sense. I researched those two cases that you mentioned and it made sense to me, but I still have some questions.

    I understand that a LEO has the right to make sure that his safety is preserved by frisking me, for the sole purpose of looking for weapons. However, if I am OCing, he already knows that I am armed so I would assume that he has right to contintue searching for weapons. I would also imagine that he has the right to check the weapon, ie if it's loaded, but that's where I get hazy. Also, I don't have to produce ID, other than my pistol permit, if he just asks for ID, correct. Unless he has RAS, then I have to furnish "documents".

    I read up on the two cases last night, but it was getting a little late, so maybe some of it didn't sink in.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by downeyj80 View Post
    I understand that a LEO has the right to make sure that his safety is preserved by frisking me, for the sole purpose of looking for weapons.
    If he is detaining you for having RAS of a crime, yes. For just walking down the street? No.

    However, if I am OCing, he already knows that I am armed so I would assume that he has right to contintue searching for weapons.
    If he is detaining you for having RAS of a crime, yes.

    I would also imagine that he has the right to check the weapon, ie if it's loaded
    No. Absolutely not. No officer has the right to stop someone in the state of Connecticut simply for open carrying, and they certainly do not have the right to check your firearm or the condition it is in. And it should be loaded, of course. Guns make ineffective clubs.


    Also, I don't have to produce ID, other than my pistol permit, if he just asks for ID, correct. Unless he has RAS, then I have to furnish "documents".
    You are not required by law to produce any ID, including your pistol permit unless the officer is stopping you for RAS of a crime. Officers are not required or empowered by law to walk around checking anyone they see with a gun for a pistol permit.

    Just understand that this has not been settled in court, and I am not sure there has ever even been someone who has done it before. Therefore if you have an officer who doesn't operate inside the laws, you are likely to be arrested for interference and have to prove it in court.

    Just possessing a holstered firearm is not RAS of any crime in CT.

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    Just to make sure I have this right, let's say I am walking down the street, minding my own business, with my pistol is plain sight. A cop approaches me and asks me a few questions, which i would answer if they are reasonable, IE "why do you carry a pistol/ carry in plain sight". And let's say the next thing he wants to do is check my pistol permit and make sure that I can carry a firearm, which I would furnish tp be cooperative. Now let's say he wants to see my weapon and check the serial number and call DPS or whomever he would call. I can refuse this, unless he has me for RAS, right? Doing so without my consent would be a violation of my 4th amendment rights, correct?

    I hate to ask so many questions, but I just want to be informed and get everything straight is all. I deffinately want OC, but I think that it would behoove me to know my rights.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by downeyj80 View Post
    Now let's say he wants to see my weapon and check the serial number and call DPS or whomever he would call. I can refuse this, unless he has me for RAS, right? Doing so without my consent would be a violation of my 4th amendment rights, correct?
    Correct, and that applies to giving him your permit as well. If you consent, fine, but if he does this against your will with no RAS, that is a violation of your 4th amendment rights.

    What you consent to or don't consent to is completely your personal choice.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    ...
    - Watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
    ...
    That was a very good video thanks for sharing.

    I found this one a long time ago a good video for when you get pulled over.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDJrQ...eature=related

  11. #11
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by downeyj80 View Post
    Rich_B: I watched those videos that you posted and I got a lot out of them. Made a lot of sense. I researched those two cases that you mentioned and it made sense to me, but I still have some questions.

    I understand that a LEO has the right to make sure that his safety is preserved by frisking me, for the sole purpose of looking for weapons. However, if I am OCing, he already knows that I am armed so I would assume that he has right to contintue searching for weapons. I would also imagine that he has the right to check the weapon, ie if it's loaded, but that's where I get hazy. Also, I don't have to produce ID, other than my pistol permit, if he just asks for ID, correct. Unless he has RAS, then I have to furnish "documents".

    I read up on the two cases last night, but it was getting a little late, so maybe some of it didn't sink in.
    downey,,,no officer has the "right" to frisk you for "his" (or anyone elses) safety, unless you are enguaged in some criminal activity. That is Assault! If you are doing Nothing criminal, they have no "right" to even contact you. That goes for "disarming" you, or any other thing. Carry of a legal weapon openly is NOT an illegal activity.

    Does that mean it cannot happen? No. But you do have recourse in the courts if necessary.

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