Is This A Concealed Weapon Violation On Private Property W/O A CCW License?

McNutty said:

Real property is going to be land and/or structures on that land. Everyone kept referring to being able to cc on or in their property.

The statute specifically refers to your land, dwelling of place of business. I think that is pretty clear - using general terms like "my property" and trying to find gray areas is only going to mislead people.

Generally your RV or trailer is going to be considered motor vehicle and I would think the statutes pertaining to transport of a firearm in a vehicle would apply to that situation. You certainly have less legal protections in a vehicle than you do in your own home. I think for a trailer to truly be considered your dwelling - for example, requiring the police to obtain a warrant based on probable cause prior to searching - it would need to be a travel trailer that is basically up on blocks in a trailer park and not readily moveable. In that case it is pretty much a fairly permanent structure on the land.

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If I can live in it, its a dwelling is it not? can you cite for me anyplace that states 'up on blocks' or 'not readily moveable' is requisite for something to be called a dwelling...

I could full-time live in my Airstream at anytime...its not a motor vehicle, but is is registered with the DMV as a 'motor home'

Interceptor_Knight said:

You can not equate a FAQ to the "law" which is the text of WI Statutes. You quoted the FAQ and should cite the Statute instead. It it is not hidden, it is not concealed. If it is on the dash, it is not hidden.

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Wis. Stat. § 941.23(2)(e); Wis. Stat. § 941.295(2)(d)2.-are these not stautes.......i get what you guys are all saying but how can you get away with within reach???? like i said not trying to argue but how can u go against within reach?????

Shorin21 said:

Wis. Stat. § 941.23(2)(e); Wis. Stat. § 941.295(2)(d)2.-are these not stautes.......i get what you guys are all saying but how can you get away with within reach???? like i said not trying to argue but how can u go against within reach?????

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I suggest that you read the whole statute. The 2 you cited above are exceptions which allow you to carry concealed on your land and have nothing to vehicle carry.
There is no "within reach" law. It does not exist.
Where within reach comes into play is the 3 components needed in order to cite you for concealed carry of a dangerous weapon.
You must know it is there, it must be hidden and it must be within your reach in order for you to be cited. This comes from case law and is part of the annotations in the Statutes.
Take the little paper DNR guidelines book and look up the actual Statutes and Administrative code for each of these "rules". That paper book has zero authority of enforcement and is meant as a list of general guidelines for people to follow in order to stay out of trouble. If you get a DNR ticket it would list the actual Code or Statute and not the guideline book page.
Here are links to the Statutes and DNR Code..
https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/prefaces/toc
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http://www.legis.state.wi.us/rsb/code/nr/nr010.pdf

Interceptor_Knight said:

I suggest that you read the whole statute. The 2 you cited above are exceptions which allow you to carry concealed on your land and have nothing to vehicle carry.
There is no "within reach" law. It does not exist.
Where within reach comes into play is the 3 components needed in order to cite you for concealed carry of a dangerous weapon.
You must know it is there, it must be hidden and it must be within your reach in order for you to be cited. This comes from case law and is part of the annotations in the Statutes.
Take the little paper DNR guidelines book and look up the actual Statutes and Administrative code for each of these "rules". That paper book has zero authority of enforcement and is meant as a list of general guidelines for people to follow in order to stay out of trouble. If you get a DNR ticket it would list the actual Code or Statute and not the guideline book page.
Here are links to the Statutes and DNR Code..
https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/prefaces/toc
.
.
http://www.legis.state.wi.us/rsb/code/nr/nr010.pdf

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thanks for the links......i just wanna be sure about everything before i go do it thats all

BROKENSPROKET said:

Act 35-2011 takes that case law and puts that into statute.

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I understand now, thank you.

GlockRDH said:

If I can live in it, its a dwelling is it not? can you cite for me anyplace that states 'up on blocks' or 'not readily moveable' is requisite for something to be called a dwelling...

I could full-time live in my Airstream at anytime...its not a motor vehicle, but is is registered with the DMV as a 'motor home'

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At the moment, I don't really know the answer to this question as to whether an RV would be considered your dwelling for purposes of the statute in question.

My only immediate recollection with respect to questions about whether an RV would be considered your home pertains to fourth amendment cases. With respect to fourth amendment questions, warrant requirement exceptions are carved our for vehicles and you are deemed to have a lesser expectation of privacy in your vehicle than in your home. There is a line of fourth amendment cases that examine whether an RV would be treated under the "vehicle exception" rule or considered a home for the purposes of whether a warrant is required for a search. In those cases, whether the vehicle was readily moveable (was it up on blocks, was it connected to utilities and was it a mobile home being used as a home) were factual issues the court looked at to determine whether the trailer was considered a home or a vehicle for fourth amendment purposes. I'll see if I can locate one of the cites.

I don't know if the same line of reasoning would apply or not.

GlockRDH said:

If I can live in it, its a dwelling is it not? can you cite for me anyplace that states 'up on blocks' or 'not readily moveable' is requisite for something to be called a dwelling...

I could full-time live in my Airstream at anytime...its not a motor vehicle, but is is registered with the DMV as a 'motor home'

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A camper parked at a camp site may be considered a temporary dwelling and meet the exception listed in 941.23(2)(e). This would make an interesting court case.

It's not necessary to own, lease, or rent property to legally occupy it, and I believe that's why the legislature put in the "legally occupies". There's lots of possibilities. I'm not talking about guests or visitors who'd have my permission. I'm talking about residents who don't fit the own/lease/rent description. The deed to my home and property is in my wife's name and in my name. My daughter, aged 32, is living here too, temporarily. It's her legal residence, but she doesn't own, lease or rent. She legally occupies my property as a resident on it, therefore she can CC on it. My other daughter, lives in MN. When she visits for Christmas, she legally occupies my home as a guest, but doesn't reside here nor have any ownership rights (until my wife & I die). I don't believe she could legally CC here without a permit unless she lived here too (I don't worry about it because she has a MN permit, and I'm not "posting").

If I were single and brought a girlfriend to live here with me, she also would be legally occupying my home without ownership, lease, or rent. But she could legally CC without permit just as well as I the owner can. If I owned another property that I don't live on, and I let my niece & nephew live there in their mobile home, rent free, they are legally occupying that property and could CC on it, even thoiugh they don't own/lease/rent. As I own it, even though I don't live on it myself, I can still CC on it also.

The dwelling definition for trespass purposes was not hard to find:

943.13  Trespass to land.
(1e) In this section:
...
(1e)(ar) "Dwelling unit" means a structure or that part of a structure which is used or intended to be used as a home, residence or sleeping place by one person or by 2 or more persons maintaining a common household, to the exclusion of all others.

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I can't cite anything specific but I think RV's etc have been upheld as temporary residences. That's what it is. That may be subject to the action of it at the time of incident. Rolling down the highway, it's generally considered a vehicle. Setup in a park...it's a residence.

While not exactly the same facts this case kinda explains the concept:

"The use to which an item is put, rather than its physical characteristics, determine whether it should be classified as ``consumer goods'' under UCC 9-109(1) or ``equipment'' under UCC 9-109(2)." Grimes v Massey Ferguson, Inc., 23 UCC Rep Serv 655; 355 So.2d 338 (Ala., 1978).

Brass Magnet said:

There was a case in another state.....Louisiana?......anyway, the guy won in court over a park gun ban because his tent was ruled as his temporary home. I wish I could remember the case and I'd search it up if I wasn't on my phone.

Anyway, try searching for posts by cowboyridn.....he wanted to start a similar suit against state park bans in WI. He posted about the case. Maybe it's of interest concerning the RV question.

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Found it. The case in question was in Nevada: Baker v. Biaggi et al
Right now, as I understand it; an injunction was granted because Nevada will be rewriting their rules and that may give the plaintiff relief.