Say What?

Metalhead47 · Nov 3, 2011

sudden valley gunner said:
It won't be enforced with military it would be enforced locally with State, County and City cops, lets not forget since the unconstitutional patriot act they all are considered "first responders".

Also, they will shoot first and ask questions later if you decide not to follow "the law", many here will just capitulate period. Some here will be given a pass and allowed to carry and those will probably help the "law enforcers" because after all, it is "the law". They are ex cops, Jail guards, military who have proven themselves loyal to the state and not fundamental rights, the countless growing number of "civil" and "public" employees, etc.

We are spread out, they will use their unconstitutional standing army with their helicopters, Bradly's and tanks, SWAT teams etc, to take us out before we can organize. Yep and people wonder why I am for limiting and reducing the powers of our already police state.

All hypothetical of course on the unlikely assumption this Bill Passes.

Southern Boy might be the poster you are looking for who has pointed out very succinctly the unconstitutional, illegal, treasonous aspects of a bill like this.

Y'know, for someone who's basic political philosophy is based on the idea that people, if left alone, will generally do right, you sure don't have much faith in your fellow man.

I think LE compliance and civilian collaboration would be highly regional. NY, Chicago, PRK, yeah they're all toast... but not much to collect there any way. Personally, I don't see Sheriff Joe down in Maricopa ordering his deputies to confiscate weapons. Or that feller in Oregon who's almost handing out their CHL's. Or the guy down in Georgia who's encouraging women to pack heat to protect themselves. You're right that the military wouldn't have anything to do with it. On the other hand, we do have a few governors in this union who at least try to uphold the Constitution. I can see one or two of them maybe calling up the national guard to protect the citizens. Either way, there'd be enough action from the real good guys to buy us that time to organize.

Yes, helicopters & tanks are bad... but certain recent events have demonstrated the effectiveness of "non-conventional" tactics against just such things.

Jim675 · Nov 3, 2011

People are people are people. Tanks and choppers weren't needed for other countries who also had our same common law rights to arms (UK, Australia), nor armies.

Your neighbors are plenty. Just add ignorance, intolerance, and a dash of servile boot-licking. It abounds on this very forum.

Governments accrue power. Revolutions almost always replace the bad with other bad.

Don't let the laws become established. We're winning (mostly) on the 2A front but all liberties need to be protected. Government's appetite for power in insatiable. All effort to protect individual liberty is similar to building a sand castle in the middle of a wide beach. Danger will come from all directions with each lifting of the tide.

sudden valley gunner · Nov 4, 2011

Metalhead47 said:
Y'know, for someone who's basic political philosophy is based on the idea that people, if left alone, will generally do right, you sure don't have much faith in your fellow man.

I think LE compliance and civilian collaboration would be highly regional. NY, Chicago, PRK, yeah they're all toast... but not much to collect there any way. Personally, I don't see Sheriff Joe down in Maricopa ordering his deputies to confiscate weapons. Or that feller in Oregon who's almost handing out their CHL's. Or the guy down in Georgia who's encouraging women to pack heat to protect themselves. You're right that the military wouldn't have anything to do with it. On the other hand, we do have a few governors in this union who at least try to uphold the Constitution. I can see one or two of them maybe calling up the national guard to protect the citizens. Either way, there'd be enough action from the real good guys to buy us that time to organize.

Yes, helicopters & tanks are bad... but certain recent events have demonstrated the effectiveness of "non-conventional" tactics against just such things.

Agreed, that's why I said it will come down locally. It was more a hypothesis of what could happen. Let's not forget that many cops are no longer "locals". Even in places like Bellingham.

I have faith in my fellow man to do what is right by themselves, many will not when threatened by force from the government. Unless you live in an area where all your neighbors are armed and willing to fight, it would be tough.

But you bring up so good points. Sheriff Mack would probably organize his deputies and the people against the feds and others. And the sacrifice of the first few may give others time to organize. It would be a Red Dawn against our Occupiers....lol. (before anybody gets but hurt, this is just hypothetical, conjecture on our part).

Thanks for the compliment on what my basic political philosophy is. That does pretty much describe me.

Dave_pro2a · Nov 4, 2011

MilProGuy · Nov 4, 2011

"Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is pushing for the United States to become a party to a global gun control law proposed by the United Nations. And President Barack Obama appears to be sympathetic to such an international power-grab and he's already displayed a propensity for bypassing the legislative process."

Wake up, America!

Metalhead47 · Nov 4, 2011

sudden valley gunner said:
Thanks for the compliment on what my basic political philosophy is. That does pretty much describe me.

I figured it was more polite than calling you a borderline anarchist

sudden valley gunner · Nov 5, 2011

Metalhead47 said:
I figured it was more polite than calling you a borderline anarchist View attachment 7308

We should meet at Bob's (Burlington) again with Navy and the other folks. we meet regularly up here in B'ham. Have a good core of liberty loving, constitutional supporters in Whatcom.

On the anarchist note, notice how they leave out the number one definition of anarchy from Websters...

1.a : absence of government b : a state of lawlessness or political disorder due to the absence of governmental authority c : a utopian society of individuals who enjoy complete freedom without government

So would a "borderline anarchist" be one for limited government ideals that the founders established this country on? Minarchist could be a good term

amlevin · Nov 5, 2011

sudden valley gunner said:
a utopian society of individuals who enjoy complete freedom without government

You mean like Somalia?

"Utopian" is often used in describing ideas put forth by people with their heads in the clouds (sometimes elsewhere too).

sudden valley gunner · Nov 5, 2011

amlevin said:
You mean like Somalia?

"Utopian" is often used in describing ideas put forth by people with their heads in the clouds (sometimes elsewhere too).

An impoverished place where the general population are unarmed? I pasted directly from Miriam Websters site. Are you going to bring up the myth of the "Wild West" too? Lets also not forget that much of Africans problems were created by European occupiers.

Here's an interesting take on it. http://c4ss.org/content/5903

sudden valley gunner · Nov 5, 2011

Hey Metal back on topic, somewhat, I just stumbled across this and it supports much of your assertions thought you might appreciate it.

http://mises.org/daily/5560/Are-You-Authorized-to-Defend-Yourself

In the wake of the savage police beating of a black man named Rodney King, the city experienced the worst civil unrest in its history. Although I had relocated a few years before, I kept in close touch with a friend who lived in a "threatened" neighborhood. At one point she reported that her Korean neighbors were standing on rooftops with automatic rifles. The Koreatown area of Los Angeles was heavily targeted by looters and arsonists. By the second day, police and firemen did not even bother to show up. In a flash, the Koreans organized and armed themselves to protect their community both from physical attack and from the flames. After seeing news footage of a gunfight in Koreatown, I called my friend and urged her to leave the area. She convinced me it was safe by recounting how the Koreans had expanded their protective perimeter to include the public library.

Interesting citizens without the states help protecting themselves.....wow....who would have thunk...

Metalhead47 · Nov 6, 2011

sudden valley gunner said:
We should meet at Bob's (Burlington) again with Navy and the other folks. we meet regularly up here in B'ham. Have a good core of liberty loving, constitutional supporters in Whatcom.

Y'know we keep trying to get up to Bellingham to check out the Ural dealer up there but it never seems to work out. It is a bit of a schlep from here. Maybe *I* should just take some initiative & set up a Mt Vernon/Burlington meet some Saturday afternoon, so I can't bitch about it being too early

Dave_pro2a · Nov 6, 2011

sudden valley gunner said:
On the anarchist note, notice how they leave out the number one definition of anarchy from Websters...

1.a : absence of government b : a state of lawlessness or political disorder due to the absence of governmental authority c : a utopian society of individuals who enjoy complete freedom without government

Just my learned opinion:

One simply cannot rely on a regular dictionary to look up philosophical terms. The proper tool is an Encyclopedia of Philosophy.

You won't find a good 'free' one online, because they cost between $1000 and $5000 for a set (they are a lucrative IP item that takes real financial resources to develop -- and those resources must be recouped). For used (older editions) they can cost hundreds of dollars instead of thousands.

While I encourage Big 'Ol Dave to fill the glaring holes in his education he cannot borrow my set. Stuck with free online resources only, it's better to look at places like http://www.iep.utm.edu/polphil/#SH3d rather than a regular dictionary.

BigDave · Nov 6, 2011

sudden valley gunner said:
On the anarchist note, notice how they leave out the number one definition of anarchy from Websters...

1.a : absence of government b : a state of lawlessness or political disorder due to the absence of governmental authority c : a utopian society of individuals who enjoy complete freedom without government

So would a "borderline anarchist" be one for limited government ideals that the founders established this country on? Minarchist could be a good term

Dave_pro2a said:
Just my learned opinion:

One simply cannot rely on a regular dictionary to look up philosophical terms. The proper tool is an Encyclopedia of Philosophy.

And here I would have thought you two goobers would realize the difference between an Anarchist and Anarchy so common sense (lacking) would tell one that the definitions would be different!:lol::lol:

sudden valley gunner · Nov 6, 2011

BigDave said:
And here I would have thought you two goobers would realize the difference between an Anarchist and Anarchy so common sense (lacking) would tell one that the definitions would be different!:lol::lol:

You really crack me up you just can't help yourself can you?. Provide some substantive backing to your arguments. Instead you have to use childish post resorting to name calling personal attacks shows a lack of ability to articulate a reasonable argument. Anarchist (common sense) is someone who believes in anarchy.

....here is another online definition for you.....from wikipedia. And yep the state can be considered immoral, especially when its tyrannical and uses a tyrannical police force to enforce malum prohibitum laws. Or when it breaks laws to enforce laws, when it acts unconstitutional and tramples natural rights.

Anarchism is generally defined as the political philosophy which holds the state to be immoral,[SUP][1][/SUP][SUP][2][/SUP] or alternatively as opposing authority in the conduct of human relations.[SUP][3][/SUP][SUP][4][/SUP][SUP][5][/SUP][SUP][6][/SUP][SUP][7][/SUP][SUP][8][/SUP] Proponents of anarchism (known as "anarchists") advocate stateless societies based on non-hierarchical[SUP][3][/SUP][SUP][9][/SUP][SUP][10][/SUP]voluntary associations.[SUP][11][/SUP][SUP][12]
[/SUP]

"Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one."

Thomas Pain.

Yep the founders where "borderline Anarchist". They would be abhorred at the positivist thinking and control many folks like yourself express.

Bring on the fight Dave, I don't mind. It shows your true colors and exposes those who support the current unconstitutional system for who they are. Because I use logic and reason, history, and compare things to the constitution (the highest law of the land, whether you like it or not) and will always support liberty over safety.

sudden valley gunner · Nov 6, 2011

Dave_pro2a said:
Just my learned opinion:

One simply cannot rely on a regular dictionary to look up philosophical terms. The proper tool is an Encyclopedia of Philosophy.

You won't find a good 'free' one online, because they cost between $1000 and $5000 for a set (they are a lucrative IP item that takes real financial resources to develop -- and those resources must be recouped). For used (older editions) they can cost hundreds of dollars instead of thousands.

While I encourage Big 'Ol Dave to fill the glaring holes in his education he cannot borrow my set. Stuck with free online resources only, it's better to look at places like http://www.iep.utm.edu/polphil/#SH3d rather than a regular dictionary.

Thanks for the link. I have read that before but now I'll book mark it.

Some of the worst presidents in history have been on their precious right. Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, George Bush jr.

aktion · Nov 22, 2011

In regards to the stories of armed Korean shopkeepers guarding their businesses during the LA riots; a search on youtube a while back yielded quite a few videos from tv news crews that would burst the bloodvessels of gungrabbers and sneering 'I'm a sportsman, not a militiaman' gunowning turncoats-in-waiting alike.

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Metalhead47

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Jim675

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sudden valley gunner

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