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Thread: Emergency Rule 1114, Scheduled for public hearing 02 Nov 2011, creates JUS-17, 18

  1. #1
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Emergency Rule 1114, Scheduled for public hearing 02 Nov 2011, creates JUS-17, 18

    You requested to be notified of the following legislative activities:

    Subject: conceal, concealed, firearm, firearms, weapon, weapons
    Topic "Emergency Rule 1114" has been scheduled for a public hearing by Joint Committee for Review of Administrative Rules. Date/time: November 2, 2011 at 9:00 AM. Location: 417 North (GAR Hall).
    Topic description: Relating to licenses authorizing persons to carry concealed weapons; concealed carry certification cards for qualified former federal law enforcement officers; and the certification of firearms safety and training instructors.

    http://legis.wisconsin.gov/erules/jus017_EmR1114.pdf

  2. #2
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Here is the letter I sent to the only people who are allowed to speak at the 'public' hearing:

    Representative Suder and Severson,


    I see you are one of only two people allowed to testify at the so-called 'public' hearing on the rules. That being said, here are some points I would like you to consider.


    JUS 17.03(8) - 4 hours was NEVER the legislative intent


    Memo from the Senators that voted for it: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19481227/Act...r 10.14.11.pdf
    In addition, there is a memo from most of the Assembly Republicans stating the same.


    JUS 17.03(9) - "Instructor led" will exclude the DNR's online hunter safety program. Wording was never in Act 35.


    JUS 17.03(c) and (h) - I took the "NRA Basic Pistol Shooting Course" and it does not state the number of hours I attended (8) and I do not have a signed statement from the instructor stating the training meets JUS 17.03(8) and that I satisfactorily completed the course. He signed my certificate, it has the date, has the city and state, has the course name, has the NRA logo.


    Constitutional Carry would of been so much simpler.


    --


    Paul L Fisher
    Here is the meeting notice outlining how 'public' this hearing is.

    http://committeeschedule.legis.wisconsin.gov/files/HearingNotices/11-11-02-0900-2011JADM-17360.html

    Last edited by paul@paul-fisher.com; 10-29-2011 at 11:00 AM.

  3. #3
    Regular Member comp45acp's Avatar
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    Would the "Executive Session" be open to the public?
    Jim Burgess
    NRA Lifetime

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    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by comp45acp View Post
    Would the "Executive Session" be open to the public?
    To watch.

  5. #5
    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    Here is the letter I sent to the only people who are allowed to speak at the 'public' hearing:



    Here is the meeting notice outlining how 'public' this hearing is.

    http://committeeschedule.legis.wisconsin.gov/files/HearingNotices/11-11-02-0900-2011JADM-17360.html



    Testimony will be limited to invited speakers only: Rep Suder, Rep. Severson and Attorney General J.B. Van Hollen. The Committee may hold an Executive Session on EmR 1114 after the Public Hearing.
    I wonder why Senators Galloway, Kedzie and Zipperer we not invited. This stinks unless they had requested Rep. Suder and Rep. Severson to speak on thier behalf. Another thought, I believe that those invited to testify can bring other colleagues with them.

    There may be public hearing open to the General Public sometime down the road after the Exucutive Session. There is still a few months left in this process.
    Last edited by BROKENSPROKET; 10-29-2011 at 11:52 AM.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Jack8768's Avatar
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    Sorry if I am posting this in the wrong place. Why would "instructor led" exclude the online hunter safety course? It still has a 8 hour field day as part of the course??

  7. #7
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack8768 View Post
    Sorry if I am posting this in the wrong place. Why would "instructor led" exclude the online hunter safety course? It still has a 8 hour field day as part of the course??
    I was under the impression when I wrote that it was online only.

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    So I'm not sure I understand what the "point" of this hearing is about?

  10. #10
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmwguy11 View Post
    So I'm not sure I understand what the "point" of this hearing is about?
    They have to have a public hearing. It's part of the process. They are then immediately going to executive session, where they can vote.

    From there, I am a little fuzzy. Does it go to the assembly/senate or is the committee it?

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    I am not certain of this but I think this hearing is only about the content of the federal law enforcement certification card and the certification and qualification of firearms trainers the DoJ is tasked to certify. The DoJ has ruled it will only certify law enforcement personnel as trainers. In act 35 the legislature gave the DoJ full authority in those two areas. I don't think the rest of Act 35 is affected by this hearing. The rest of Act 35 is under emergency rule for 150 days. At the end of 150 days the process to put into place permanent rules starts. As part of the permanent rules process the proposed rules must go through public hearings and full legislature approval and governor approval before they become permanent law. I also think the emergency rule calender started the day Act 35 was published, July 22. I could be wrong but these are my opinions.

  12. #12
    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nemo View Post
    I am not certain of this but I think this hearing is only about the content of the federal law enforcement certification card and the certification and qualification of firearms trainers the DoJ is tasked to certify. The DoJ has ruled it will only certify law enforcement personnel as trainers. In act 35 the legislature gave the DoJ full authority in those two areas. I don't think the rest of Act 35 is affected by this hearing. The rest of Act 35 is under emergency rule for 150 days. At the end of 150 days the process to put into place permanent rules starts. As part of the permanent rules process the proposed rules must go through public hearings and full legislature approval and governor approval before they become permanent law. I also think the emergency rule calender started the day Act 35 was published, July 22. I could be wrong but these are my opinions.
    The permanent rule process can start before 150 days passes, but it must be started before 150 days passes.

    Niether "permanent" or "emergency" rules go through the FULL legislature. It just goes through the Joint Committee for Review of Administrative Rules and the Governor.

  13. #13
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Emergency Rule 1114 rescheduled for 7 Nov 2011, 0930 GAR Hall

    Topic "Emergency Rule 1114" has been scheduled for a public hearing by Joint Committee for Review of Administrative Rules. Date/time: November 7, 2011 at 9:30 AM. Location: 417 North (GAR Hall).

  14. #14
    Regular Member Grant Guess's Avatar
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    Rumor has it that there are some that want to double the present hours of required training per the emergency rules. Should know more at some point on Friday.
    Gun Control Defined: The theory that people who are willing to ignore laws against rape, torture, kidnapping, theft and murder will obey a law which prohibits them from owning or carrying a firearm.

  15. #15
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grant Guess View Post
    Rumor has it that there are some that want to double the present hours of required training per the emergency rules. Should know more at some point on Friday.
    Some states require eight hours classroom, so instructors must instruct ten hours to make sure potty breaks and disruptions do not reduce instruction to less than minimum hours.

  16. #16
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Committee suspends training requirement for concealed weapons


  17. #17
    Regular Member oak1971's Avatar
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    Good news! I saw it earlier on Armed Badger.
    In God I trust. Everyone else needs to keep your hands where I can see them.

  18. #18
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    More lies from our paper patriot (tm)*?



    Thus, some people could wind up getting permits after a bogus instructor passes out permits after teaching a course that lasts just a few minutes, Van Hollen said.
    They got rid of the training time stipulation but not what training courses would be accepted.




    * Frank Rock copyright 2011
    Last edited by HandyHamlet; 11-07-2011 at 01:45 PM.
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    Mixed opinion here.

    the downside is it is sure to costo us some states of reciprocity

  20. #20
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teej View Post
    Mixed opinion here.

    the downside is it is sure to costo us some states of reciprocity
    Why?

    We already accept as proof of training, an out of state permit/license that requires no training.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    Why?

    We already accept as proof of training, an out of state permit/license that requires no training.
    You could be right. I'd forgotten that other states issue without training.

    I was just thinking of cases like, say, Washington where we probably won't get recognized since our b/g check is just NICS rather than AFIS. Was thinking the training might affect other states...but as you say, probably not. :\

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