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Thread: People considering submitting MD training

  1. #1
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    People considering submitting MD training

    I had a chat with various legal people.

    The contention is that since the rules are 'emergency', suing to get them 'fixed' would be pointless. The best course of action would be to work on our legislators to get the permanent rules fixed.

    At best, the courts would most likely put the case on hold until the permanent rules are implemented, which could be many months.

    In addition, the challenge to the rules would most likely be heard in Dane County. The part of Act 35 that allowed one to sue in your home county was to challenge the decision against the laws and the rules, not challenging the rules themselves.

    So.... please take that for what it is worth.

    I will decide before tomorrow which way I am going.

  2. #2
    Regular Member wild boar's Avatar
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    I'm going with my dd-214 Paul,

    after all this time I want this to go smooth. There will always be time for the cause when the DOJ is done. boar out.
    Last edited by wild boar; 10-31-2011 at 02:42 PM.

  3. #3
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    A bill was just put through the senate that would allow someone suing the state (or state board, commission, officers, employees, agents, etc) to choose a venue in any county they wish. I believe the assembly will vote on it this week. So once this bill becomes law, the challenge could be heard in a county other than dane county.

    http://legis.wisconsin.gov/insession...ocs/SB-117.pdf

    relating to: venue for actions and appeals in which
    the sole defendant is the state, a state board or commission, or certain state
    officers, employees, or agents.

    Under current law, all actions in which the sole defendant is the state, a state
    board or commission, or certain state officers, employees, or agents must be brought
    in Dane County. This bill permits the plaintiff to designate the county within which
    to bring the action.
    Under current law, the state is divided into ten judicial administrative districts;
    each judicial administrative district is comprised of one or more judicial circuits, or
    counties, containing branches of the circuit courts. The state is also divided into four
    court of appeals districts, comprised of one or more judicial circuits. Currently, an
    appeal of a judgment or order issued by a circuit court must be heard in the court of
    appeals district within which the circuit court is located. This bill permits the
    appellant to select the court of appeals district within which to bring the appeal, but
    the court of appeals district must not contain the circuit court from which the
    judgment or order was issued.

  4. #4
    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    I had a chat with various legal people.

    The contention is that since the rules are 'emergency', suing to get them 'fixed' would be pointless. The best course of action would be to work on our legislators to get the permanent rules fixed.

    At best, the courts would most likely put the case on hold until the permanent rules are implemented, which could be many months.

    In addition, the challenge to the rules would most likely be heard in Dane County. The part of Act 35 that allowed one to sue in your home county was to challenge the decision against the laws and the rules, not challenging the rules themselves.

    So.... please take that for what it is worth.

    I will decide before tomorrow which way I am going.
    Like you saidn, You can sue in home county to challenge a rejection decision, not the rules themselves. That would have be in Dane County, until the Assembly passes SB117 and the Governor signs it, then you can sue the state in any county you want. I like them apples.

  5. #5
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    Someone has to be the guinney pig, Ill be sending mine in tomorrow.. just for thrills...

  6. #6
    Regular Member tomm1963's Avatar
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    Unhappy Could using the maryland training alone not get you a permit and cost you $50?

    I would like to submit with just the Maryland on line certificate but the CC application states on the first page-

    "All incomplete applications will be returned along with the payment. Any accepted application where the applicant is found to be ineligible for a concealed weapon license will be denied and the payment will not be returned."

    So does that mean you lose the application fee if your denied for various reasons like Felony etc or if they don't like the training you submitted.

  7. #7
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomm1963 View Post
    I would like to submit with just the Maryland on line certificate but the CC application states on the first page-

    "All incomplete applications will be returned along with the payment. Any accepted application where the applicant is found to be ineligible for a concealed weapon license will be denied and the payment will not be returned."

    So does that mean you lose the application fee if your denied for various reasons like Felony etc or if they don't like the training you submitted.
    Probably.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Grant Guess's Avatar
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    Could be wrong, but I have a VERY ugly feeling that getting the emergency rules changed to drop the 4 hour training will not happen. The first dikweed to start spouting off about not changing the rules was Mursau. You know that Wangaarrd, Bies, Darling, Olsen and a gaggle of the Libtardians won't allow the 4 hrs to be dropped.
    Gun Control Defined: The theory that people who are willing to ignore laws against rape, torture, kidnapping, theft and murder will obey a law which prohibits them from owning or carrying a firearm.

  9. #9
    Regular Member tomm1963's Avatar
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    The question... Is submitting MD training course an incomplete application which results in a return of your $50 or is it a denial in which case you pay the teller on the way out. I am thinking this is for peeps who don't pass the background check.... Who's going to pony up a Grant and find out? I might, just need some convincing. And some ideas for what next.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomm1963 View Post
    I would like to submit with just the Maryland on line certificate but the CC application states on the first page-

    "All incomplete applications will be returned along with the payment. Any accepted application where the applicant is found to be ineligible for a concealed weapon license will be denied and the payment will not be returned."

    So does that mean you lose the application fee if your denied for various reasons like Felony etc or if they don't like the training you submitted.
    Quote Originally Posted by tomm1963 View Post
    The question... Is submitting MD training course an incomplete application which results in a return of your $50 or is it a denial in which case you pay the teller on the way out. I am thinking this is for peeps who don't pass the background check.... Who's going to pony up a Grant and find out? I might, just need some convincing. And some ideas for what next.
    I would think....not accepting the training is NOT a denial. In that case they would send the whole thing back for a do-over.
    States donít have rights. People do.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmwguy11 View Post
    A bill was just put through the senate that would allow someone suing the state (or state board, commission, officers, employees, agents, etc) to choose a venue in any county they wish. I believe the assembly will vote on it this week. So once this bill becomes law, the challenge could be heard in a county other than dane county.

    http://legis.wisconsin.gov/insession...ocs/SB-117.pdf

    relating to: venue for actions and appeals in which
    the sole defendant is the state, a state board or commission, or certain state
    officers, employees, or agents.

    Under current law, all actions in which the sole defendant is the state, a state
    board or commission, or certain state officers, employees, or agents must be brought
    in Dane County. This bill permits the plaintiff to designate the county within which
    to bring the action.
    Under current law, the state is divided into ten judicial administrative districts;
    each judicial administrative district is comprised of one or more judicial circuits, or
    counties, containing branches of the circuit courts. The state is also divided into four
    court of appeals districts, comprised of one or more judicial circuits. Currently, an
    appeal of a judgment or order issued by a circuit court must be heard in the court of
    appeals district within which the circuit court is located. This bill permits the
    appellant to select the court of appeals district within which to bring the appeal, but
    the court of appeals district must not contain the circuit court from which the
    judgment or order was issued.

    SB117 goes before the assembly on thursday.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Hostilefreak's Avatar
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    So has anyone used the MD police firearm safety course as proof of training? I submitted my hunter safety card as proof so that should be legit.
    "Silence means death. Stand on your feet. Inner fear your worst enemy."

  13. #13
    Regular Member wild boar's Avatar
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    most of us...

    ...have chosen the the path of least resistance. Our want for legal conceal carry has out weighted our desire for conflict at this point but, I personally feel this should be challenged. Not just MD, the whole four hour training requirement. The DOJ far overstepped It's boundary in the rules, we have to test the waters before it becomes SOP. There is, most certainly, a good case to go forward with. As Paul has pointed out, these are "emergency rules", not the law. boar out.

  14. #14
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    I put mine in... no reply yet... anyone else? Doesn't bother me if I don't get it this time... If i don't, ill wait until the emergency rules are lifted..

  15. #15
    Regular Member wild boar's Avatar
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    Good job...

    Quote Originally Posted by TheManInBlack View Post
    I put mine in... no reply yet... anyone else? Doesn't bother me if I don't get it this time... If i don't, ill wait until the emergency rules are lifted..
    ...I hope your not the first, or the last. I used my 214, but have the MD, and am getting the UT by Yellow Cat for the 70% state coverage. boar out.

  16. #16
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    Yeah, I wasn't sure what to give them being active duty, so I gave them my ERB and DA-5789.

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