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Thread: why open carry??

  1. #1
    Regular Member jwinkeler's Avatar
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    why open carry??

    Evening all,
    So im new here im 17 i turn eighteen and will start open carrying in two days, and that question was posed my parents who i am in a heated debate with as they do not see the need too carry at all let alone broadcast it, unfortunately if i do not get them on board i will be forced to move out or not carry at all, so i have a few questions, can you all give me any facts or statstics or arguments to help with my parents? and any tips for open carrying in northern virgnia i know alot of people here do not like guns and will probably call the police. Thank you for your time
    Joe

  2. #2
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    First, you might want to post your question on the VA forum...just keep scrooling down to it. welcome to OCDO

    Second, I have OC'd (mostly, except winter when my coat may cover) for over 40 years. I live in an OC friendly area of an OC friendly state (WA) so your mileage may very, but I have had one two word conversation with a Sheriff's Deputy, and one case where I know for a fact that my holstered weapon stopped something, before it ever started. As soon as the guy that was obviouly intent on doing me harm saw I was armed, he left, in a hurry.

    Situations like the one mentioned may have happened before/after, but none that I could positively say my holstered carry made a difference. But when I guy is reaching into your car to drag you out, and all of a sudden changes his mind? I OC to prevent problems, not create them.

    Anyway, first, a very good high retention holster is a #1 priority. Second, do not handle your weapon, unless you intend to use it. If you want to check, use your elbow. This is why you want a high retention holster. Nervous Nelly's are the ones people notice and call the cops on. OK.

    BTW: if someone were to try snag your carry, your elbow is what you stop them with. Push down on the carry as hard as you can so not only do they have to fight the retention, they have to fight your arm to remove it. OK? The chances someone will try to snag it are very slim, but JIC.

  3. #3
    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    In my opinion you will never get them on board with you carrying a gun openly. Both of my parents think it is stupid. My dad is openly against it (yet he keeps a .357 in his truck everywhere he goes) but my mother stays out of it. They will alway think that your life is at risk because you carry a gun. Being so young the cops might talk to your parents on your behalf (local cops have talk to my parents about me carrying), they will most likely talk about a situation where a BG would say "If you carry a gun are you man enough to use it" ("Yes" has to be the correct answer for you to carry.) But this seems to be a rare case, especially if you don't frequent the rough areas. You won't get many stares, as very few notice anything. I am 5'10' 150lbs so my gun is very noticeable but I've been in places 50 times and they only notice it the 51st that I have a gun.

    And like hermannr said, use your elbow to keep you gun safe. If you use your hand people get the impression that you're about to draw. To date no one has ever even touched my gun, let alone try to take it from me.

    Cops will stop you, and question you and, being only 18, they will say you are not old enough to carry (I don't know if you are, I don't know the laws in VA). But I have found that if you prove you know the law then they usually let that be it, but don't be surprised if the same LEO stops you multiple times to ask.

    And remember, the gun is the lesser part of the equation to keep you safe. Stay constantly alert, which means stay clear of drugs and alcohol. And don't go into a situation you know you shouldn't be in. Some states require you to "not be willing participant" in an altercation to justify taking another man's life.

    You should FULLY understand your laws before carrying a gun, and I would even suggest carrying them with you. Especially anything that requires an age. So I carry the youth handgun safety act everywhere I go.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Baked on Grease's Avatar
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    Read this essay, it's essentially the thought proccess that lead this one person to decide to open carry. I find it very helpful to use some of the points he brings up in debates I have with people. After reading it I had a much firmer belief in open carry and could better iterate my reasons for doing so to others (only read it this morning but already have realized it helped me in the one open carry talk I had today) .

    http://www.usacarry.com/forums/open-...-argument.html



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    "A Right Un-exercised is a Right Lost"

    "According to the law, [openly carrying] in a vehicle is against the law if the weapon is concealed" -Flamethrower (think about it....)

    Carrying an XDm 9mm with Hornady Critical Defense hollowpoint. Soon to be carrying a Ruger along with it....

  5. #5
    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    Seeing as how you are a minor, if you are still living in your parents' home, you will likely have to abide by whatever decision they make in regards to your carrying a handgun.
    Last edited by MilProGuy; 11-01-2011 at 08:34 PM. Reason: edited to correct spelling
    Proud Veteran ~ U.S. Army / Army Reserve

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  6. #6
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    "..and any tips for open carrying in northern virgnia i know alot of people here do not like guns and will probably call the police."

    This part is wrong. Virginia, and yes that includes Northern Virginia is probably the most lenient and gun-friendly state in the South. Those of us who OC on a regular basis rarely ever have any problems.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  7. #7
    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    "..and any tips for open carrying in northern virgnia i know alot of people here do not like guns and will probably call the police."

    This part is wrong. Virginia, and yes that includes Northern Virginia is probably the most lenient and gun-friendly state in the South. Those of us who OC on a regular basis rarely ever have any problems.
    Indeed. I think there have actually been more problems out of Northern VA recently. Surry County, Hanover County, the Scottish Festival are a few that come to mind. I have been OCing in NOVA for four years without any LEO contact or any other negative experiences.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

  8. #8
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    Indeed. I think there have actually been more problems out of Northern VA recently. Surry County, Hanover County, the Scottish Festival are a few that come to mind. I have been OCing in NOVA for four years without any LEO contact or any other negative experiences.
    Yes. It seems that there has been a higher percentage of problems in the Tidewater and the Roanoke area when one considers the reports we have seen over the years here on this site. The Tidewater has come very far and it now looks as though they are doing just fine down there.

    To most Virginians, NOVA is virtually another state and in my opinion, their take on this has validity and meaning. We up here over the years have been infested with people from other parts of the country (mostly from northern states) and other parts of the world (and most of those countries do NOT view private ownership of firearms, much less carrying them, in a positive light). One might think that with us natives at somewhere between 20 and 25% of the population, the deck is heavily stacked against us and when the majority sees folks like us carrying a firearm, they pull their cell phones and make immediate calls to the police. But for some strange reason, this does not happen.

    For some reason, the imports while not at all trustworthy in their voting, seem to accept some of Virginia's traditions and heritage. I can't explain it but I can attest to the fact that running into a negative encounter with another citizen up here is VERY rare and unusual.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  9. #9
    Regular Member Malcolm's Avatar
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    Congrats all the same.

    The bad news is, problems will always arise. The good news is you sound smart enough to be able to handle them. Lord knows enough people out there would rather indulge themselves in a new video game system, not take on the responsibility for themselves or the people around them. Anyway, good luck, things will work themselves out. and remember, your not alone and "There is no such thing as Bad Knowledge".
    T.V. brings on a whole new meaning to thinking inside the box.

    -M

  10. #10
    Regular Member jwinkeler's Avatar
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    Thanks everyone so I'm open carrying now I haven't dealt with the cops but since I'm 18 I'm worried some cop won't know the law code and arrest me because he believe I'm breaking the law when I'm really not how should I go about dealing with that.
    Joe
    Look Sharp, Act Sharp, Be Sharp.

  11. #11
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwinkeler View Post
    Thanks everyone so I'm open carrying now I haven't dealt with the cops but since I'm 18 I'm worried some cop won't know the law code and arrest me because he believe I'm breaking the law when I'm really not how should I go about dealing with that.
    Joe
    Learn Virginia laws regarding the carrying of a firearm. Since you can't apply for a CHP (Concealed Handgun Permit) until you're 21, you have no choice but to OC if you are of a mind to go armed. The are some places you cannot go such as on school grounds, federal government buildings and property (includes post offices), a few colleges/universities, and anyplace that has posted a "No Guns" sign which could open you up to trespassing charges.

    And then there is the GFSZA (Gun Free School Zone Act) which is a federal law. Read up on U.S. Codes 18,921 and 18,922. In essence, it is a federal crime to carry a firearm within 1000' of a K-12 school unless you have a "license" issued by the state in which you live and in which the school resides and that to obtain that license, you had to meet certain state requirements. I understand that this law was rescinded in 1995 but I am not a lawyer and do not know this for certain. Perhaps others can help with this one.

    Point is, you need to understand the laws and what you can and cannot do under them. Open carry in this state is the standard or normal mode of carry whereas concealed carry is the exception as it requires permission to do this from the state.

    For what it's worth, I have actively and regularly OC'd for 4 1/2 years in the areas in and outside of NOVA and have encounter police many times with not one negative incident. Not one.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  12. #12
    Regular Member purlrider's Avatar
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    I have been a member of Open Carry .org for just a short time and for the greater part enjoy and glean a great deal of good information. Here most if not all share my Constitutional philosophies. Not just our Second Amendment rights, but also all the Amendments that give us our freedoms. I personally feel, as many of you have stated and alluded to, if we lose the Second Amendment we have no defense against losing all the rest.
    I also feel that making a choice to open carry brings a great responsibility. First of all I carry (open or concealed or both) primarily for defense of self, my family and all others that may need it. I also carry because I can. But because I can does not give me the right to swagger about intentionally bringing focus to my weapon. Nor do I just hang out in places waiting for others to be offended or alarmed by my right to carry. I am not trying to be confrontational I am trying to be an example to those that feel as I do but don’t realize they can. There is a question that seems to run a thread in dialogs with many folk I encounter, “do you have a permit to carry that”? Prior to my decision to carry I too was very ignorant of much of this. If I politely carry without mischief and am willing to engage without confrontation I believe this bodes well for all, regardless of what side of the fence we are on.
    That being said this does not mean if approached by the “authorities” that I give in to their unconstitutional demands. I made the decision if one of the reasons I carry is to show my stand on the Second Amendment that I must and will make the same stand on all the other Amendments. So, if approached by those in “authority” the fourth and fifth Amendments will be the cornerstones of which I will stand and rely.
    Once again thanks to those of you who strive to "do it in a good way".
    Don't be angered by their ignorance. Be polite, your carrying a gun.

    PR

  13. #13
    Regular Member sraacke's Avatar
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    but also all the Amendments that give us our freedoms.
    The Amendments don't give us our freedoms. These are rights which every person born on this planet have, human rights. As the US Constitution said, all men are created equal with certain rights, among them is life, liberty and the persuit of happiness. The Bill of Rights was a way for the founders to expand on that some, to list those rights that were recognized and would be protected. We are all born with the right to assemble, the right to worship as we wish, the right to be free in our homes and from unreasonable search and we all have the right to have weapons to defend ourselves from our neighbors as well as our own government.
    It doesn't matter if you were born in the US, in China or Russia, you have these same rights. In those other places your government may not recognize these basic human rights, and that is sad, but that doesn't mean that they aren't yours. If the Bill of Rights was taken out and burned tommorrow, your rights would not cease to exist. They would still be there. You would have to fight for your government to recognize those rights but they have always been there and always will.
    Last edited by sraacke; 12-24-2011 at 11:04 PM. Reason: spelling

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    If I had a gun on me when I was 18 I would probably be worm food by now.

    Don't know anything about you, your lifestyle or who you are but when I was 18 I thought I was the Sh^&. I was out late, partying with friends, drinking and getting into trouble. Even when I wasn't getting into trouble I was generated suspicion from the cops and was almost constantly harrased.

    Being 18, and will all due respect you are a kid still at heart but you think and feel you are a man and maybe you are, but I certainly wasn't but.... I THOUGHT I WAS!

    Listen to your parents, they are not your enemy, their job is to do what is right for you. Don't get caught up with the hype of open carry ideas from this site alone, look at what people post on other sites ask friends. If you shoot someone in self defense but there is no witnesses or witnesses that are willing to LIE, your life is ruined.

    When I was your age one of my friends had a Concealed permit and we were in a very restrictive state. He has valid reason to carry as he worked with jewelry and had to make frequent trips to Boston to transport gold and diamonds. He only carried concealed and only carried when he was transporting.

    HOWEVER, today is very different than from when I was your age to be quite blunt, people are freakin nuts!
    I am not sure if it is due to stress, playing violent games, watching violence or what but it seems more and more crazy stuff going on and with the technology we have this news travels fast. But a young person such as yourself is not a normal target.

    I think your parents are thinking of your best interest, if you really feel you need a weapon to defend yourself you should carry concealed. Leave the open carry to the older more distinguished and older gentlemen who attract less attention.

    I very rarely open carry, I think you should consider doing the same in spite of the name of this website.

    thats my 2 cents

  15. #15
    Regular Member g17585's Avatar
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    Try It

    I am going to be 18 next month and I feel that I am responsible enough to handle a firearm and I'm sure you are too. I would definately and thoroughly read up on all of the laws that pertain to your state to be sure that you know the laws better than the officers. That way your rights won't be infringed upon.

    Good luck. Stay armed!

  16. #16
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sky1 View Post
    If I had a gun on me when I was 18 I would probably be worm food by now.

    Don't know anything about you, your lifestyle or who you are but when I was 18 I thought I was the Sh^&. I was out late, partying with friends, drinking and getting into trouble. Even when I wasn't getting into trouble I was generated suspicion from the cops and was almost constantly harrased.

    Being 18, and will all due respect you are a kid still at heart but you think and feel you are a man and maybe you are, but I certainly wasn't but.... I THOUGHT I WAS!

    Listen to your parents, they are not your enemy, their job is to do what is right for you. Don't get caught up with the hype of open carry ideas from this site alone, look at what people post on other sites ask friends. If you shoot someone in self defense but there is no witnesses or witnesses that are willing to LIE, your life is ruined.

    When I was your age one of my friends had a Concealed permit and we were in a very restrictive state. He has valid reason to carry as he worked with jewelry and had to make frequent trips to Boston to transport gold and diamonds. He only carried concealed and only carried when he was transporting.

    HOWEVER, today is very different than from when I was your age to be quite blunt, people are freakin nuts!
    I am not sure if it is due to stress, playing violent games, watching violence or what but it seems more and more crazy stuff going on and with the technology we have this news travels fast. But a young person such as yourself is not a normal target.

    I think your parents are thinking of your best interest, if you really feel you need a weapon to defend yourself you should carry concealed. Leave the open carry to the older more distinguished and older gentlemen who attract less attention.

    I very rarely open carry, I think you should consider doing the same in spite of the name of this website.

    thats my 2 cents
    Wow. Why does one need a valid reason to carry or have a firearm in general. You say young people are not a target, would you care to explain to the 18 yr old girl in OK who had to use a firearm to defend herself and baby that shouldn't have that gun because she's too young to be a target? While you may not have been responsible enough to carry at 18 there are those of us who are. I can find plenty of people over 21, who are considered old enough to carry in pretty much all states who are not responsible enough to carry.

    I started OCing a little after I turned 18 and am now 19 (20 in May). I have run into no problems OCing and is actually my ONLY option in my home state. And you say people are nuts. I would say that is a very valid reason why a good law abiding citizen should be carrying to defend themselves. Again we shouldn't have to have a "need" to carry. It's a right and the person should be allowed to carry to defend themselves. At 18 I have to fill out a draft card, can be in the military if i choose, enter into legal binding contracts, and many other things. And yet I'm not old enough to defend myself or loved ones. If you look at states that allow those 18+ to get a carry permit you will see they do not have issues with irresponsible 18-20 year olds. I find the people in my age range who are irresponsible don't even think about getting a carry permit let alone go through the process to get one.

    I understand you have your own opinion and that's fine but realize just because something is true for you does not mean it is true for everyone. I would encourage the poster if he is of age, responsible, and knows the laws well he should OC.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  17. #17
    Regular Member jwinkeler's Avatar
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    Thanks for the responses!

    Thanks for the responses and a little about me I don't drink or party mostly just work or play video games with my friends and I volunteer with a local PD, I know my parents aren't the enemy but thanks for the reminder I need it from time to time for the younger OCers can you pm me with any issues you've had OCing? Thanks!
    Joe
    Look Sharp, Act Sharp, Be Sharp.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Outdoorsman1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sky1 View Post
    If I had a gun on me when I was 18 I would probably be worm food by now.

    Don't know anything about you, your lifestyle or who you are but when I was 18 I thought I was the Sh^&. I was out late, partying with friends, drinking and getting into trouble. Even when I wasn't getting into trouble I was generated suspicion from the cops and was almost constantly harrased.

    Being 18, and will all due respect you are a kid still at heart but you think and feel you are a man and maybe you are, but I certainly wasn't but.... I THOUGHT I WAS!

    Listen to your parents, they are not your enemy, their job is to do what is right for you. Don't get caught up with the hype of open carry ideas from this site alone, look at what people post on other sites ask friends. If you shoot someone in self defense but there is no witnesses or witnesses that are willing to LIE, your life is ruined.

    When I was your age one of my friends had a Concealed permit and we were in a very restrictive state. He has valid reason to carry as he worked with jewelry and had to make frequent trips to Boston to transport gold and diamonds. He only carried concealed and only carried when he was transporting.

    HOWEVER, today is very different than from when I was your age to be quite blunt, people are freakin nuts!
    I am not sure if it is due to stress, playing violent games, watching violence or what but it seems more and more crazy stuff going on and with the technology we have this news travels fast. But a young person such as yourself is not a normal target.

    I think your parents are thinking of your best interest, if you really feel you need a weapon to defend yourself you should carry concealed. Leave the open carry to the older more distinguished and older gentlemen who attract less attention.

    I very rarely open carry, I think you should consider doing the same in spite of the name of this website.

    thats my 2 cents
    Wow... Can somebody tell me the legal age to join the military...?????

    Granted there you get trained, so yea I would suggest to the OP to get all the trainning and PRACTICE he can afford.... and then borrow some money and get somemore....

    And even "military tranning" cannot fix stuipd....

    http://news.yahoo.com/police-navy-se...022731883.html

    Outdoorsman1
    Last edited by Outdoorsman1; 01-08-2012 at 10:07 PM.
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  19. #19
    Regular Member okboomer's Avatar
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    Another thing that I think a lot of folks are overlooking about 18yos serving in the military ... they are not out there in a vacuum, there are generally experienced NCOs and OICs to help keep heads screwed on right and tight, in most cases ... not just a bunch of boobs out there taking pot shots at anything and everything, so to speak.

    And during training, the wheat is seperated from the chaff and those who demonstrate the maturity and ability to think are given more responsibility than the 'gansta wannabe' set on showing off.

    Whereas, in real life, there is generally no requirement to be able to think clearly, no one to remind a younger person to look for alternatives first, etc. (Other than parental units )
    cheers - okboomer
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  20. #20
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    I might be at the WRONG, thread? But not at the wrong site!

    Ill start by saying I totally support you's !
    I am a Canadian. And although we can't carry here period, I and many others support you's. Im knew to the site yet, Im more or less up to date with the movement.
    I was wondering if by chance if I could possible get a shirt or two with your logo? I assure you it will be worn with PRIDE. Ill keep this simple, and short.
    Is this possible? Thank you and im sorry for being on the wrong thread.
    Last edited by Terry-supports; 01-12-2012 at 09:22 AM.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sky1 View Post
    SNIP
    When I was your age one of my friends had a Concealed permit and we were in a very restrictive state. He has valid reason to carry as he worked with jewelry and had to make frequent trips to Boston to transport gold and diamonds. He only carried concealed and only carried when he was transporting.

    SNIP
    So carrying valuable things around with you is a "valid reason to carry?" How about carrying your LIFE around with you? Is your LIFE valuable? Is that a "valid" reason to carry?

  22. #22
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    well,,,

    Quote Originally Posted by georg jetson View Post
    So carrying valuable things around with you is a "valid reason to carry?" How about carrying your LIFE around with you? Is your LIFE valuable? Is that a "valid" reason to carry?
    I asked a friend about his carry habits,,,
    he said he only carried when he had alot of money on him.
    I asked if thirty dollars was enough?
    he wasnt sure....
    I said I always carry enough money on me to make carrying a gun for self defense an all the time kind of thing.
    even seven dollars in your wallet is worth protecting with a gun,
    Ive got seven hundred ten dollars in my wallet right now,,,, I AM ARMED!!!!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran Verd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by georg jetson View Post
    So carrying valuable things around with you is a "valid reason to carry?" How about carrying your LIFE around with you? Is your LIFE valuable? Is that a "valid" reason to carry?
    THIS! You can get more money, you can never get another life.
    One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them. Thomas Jefferson to George Washington, 1796.
    If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun. - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001).
    Find businesses that are pro gun and those that aren't. Support Friend or Foe by using it!

  24. #24
    Regular Member Medic1210's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sky1 View Post
    if you really feel you need a weapon to defend yourself you should carry concealed. Leave the open carry to the older more distinguished and older gentlemen who attract less attention.
    So rather than be a responsible, law abiding citizen who open carries, you suggest he break the law and carry concealed? Since he cannot legally conceal until he's 21, I'm curious why you would suggest such a thing?

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