Fox 2 - Hall of Shame

Shadow Bear · Nov 2, 2011

eastmeyers said:
It was not an attack on just him, it was an attack on Firearm Rights, OC, MOC, and Scott. They choice to use the back door to attack Firearm Rights/OC/MOC, aka a media prostate exame on Scott. Was this fair? No. Did it happen? Yes. Now as the community that supports Firearm Rights and OC, should we not also decied to support MOC and Scott, when unfairly attacked personally? I believe we should. That is everyones personal decision. But why come on here and beat up on someone when you know they are going to read it? Why pour salt in the wound?

So I say this next paragraph with the same right of speech that you have used, and will most likely use to respond to it. I also say it meaning no personal spite, as I consider you an on-line-buddy. So here it comes.

Get the F over yourself dude! Scott is our friend, even people on here that don't get along with MOC or Scott as President of MOC, have supported him. If you have met the guy, you would know, he is a good Christian man. Whats in the past is in the past, THAT IS EVEN IF ITS IN THE PAST, or how much of it is in the past. The entire story is ONE SIDED! Scott offered to sit down and do a story with the reporter, and the reporter refused, what does that tell you? Hello!!! So I say again, Get the F over yourself. Until you know the actuall circumstances you are just as bad as the reporter, for believing his one sided line of BS.

(sorry I don't have spell check)

I admire everyone for sticking by Scott the person. I don't know if anyone would be as loyal to me (as a person). My point is regarding Scott the public figure. The rules are different when you step into the spotlight. My point is, when you intentionally take that step, everything changes. As much as one might wish, you are no longer a private individual. You have no right to privacy. Your legal rights change, peoples' expectations change, life changes.

I feel for him as a person. I've F'ed up publicly, I know the emotional toll. But, when you put yourself out there, you're a target for every nut job with an axe to grind. If you have major personal issues, stay behind the throne. Don't let your enthusiasm get you out from behind cover unless you are bulletproof.

Even folks who are eminently qualified to be in a position of public leadership, and are squeaky clean, don't make that step, because it's just too dangerous. Its too bad, really, but it is reality.

Was it a slap at OC? Absolutely. But we brought it on ourselves. The emperor had no clothes, so to speak.

We can all learn from this, and MOC will come out stronger if, and only if, we play this right.

It pains me to see someone go through this; it really does, but MOC has to be seen taking the moral high road by distancing itself from the behaviour. Not the person, but the behaviour. As Christians are often fond of saying; 'love the sinner, hate the sin'. Tough to do in our humanity, but necessary.

DrTodd · Nov 2, 2011

scot623 said:
This will be posted on MOC homepage shortly.

Dear Members:
*
On November 1st, 2011 Fox 2 News Detroit aired a slanted piece on former MOC, Inc. President Scott Webb. *The feature was one-sided and obviously an attempt to discredit *Mr. Webb, MOC, Inc. and our right to keep and bear arms. MOC, Inc. is aware that this segment appeared during sweeps week. This was nothing more than an attempt to create controversy, *increase ratings and harm the growing practice of open carry.*
*
If Mr. Webb had been President of an anti-gun group, this disgraceful personal attack would never have been aired. Mr. Webb is and has always been an advocate for our right to keep and bear arms. As President, he moved MOC, Inc. forward and helped make it a premiere gun-rights organization in Michigan.*
*
MOC, Inc. believes that every lawful person has the right to bear arms. *As mentioned in the piece Mr. Webb is lawfully allowed to possess firearms and has never been charged with or convicted of any crime that would have terminated that right. *Additionally, Mr. Webb has no known medical condition that would prevent him from possessing firearms.
*
MOC, Inc. believes that a person’s personal life should remain personal. *We find it disgraceful that Fox 2 News Detroit presented such a biased and one sided segment that could only have been viewed as an attack on our 2nd Amendment right to keep and bear arms. Can we expect more "news" stories from Fox 2 News Detroit simply dissecting the personal lives of others when no additional controversy exists?

*A recent Gallop poll revealed (not reveled) that 75% of the people polled (not poled) are against gun control laws and support the right to bear arms. *Fox 2 News Detroit should realize the majority of people in Michigan support the right to keep and bear arms.
*
Finally, we wish the best for Mr. Webb. *He served MOC, Inc well as President and we hope he continues his advocacy for our 2nd Amendment rights in the future.*
*
Sincerely yours,
*
Rob Harris
Vice President
Michigan Open Carry Inc.

Made some corrections on spelling, but very good overall. I'm wondering what the *'s represent.

autosurgeon · Nov 2, 2011

Those are just paragraph breaks... So it does not look like a wall of text when pasted.

DrTodd · Nov 2, 2011

Shadow Bear said:
I admire everyone for sticking by Scott the person. I don't know if anyone would be as loyal to me (as a person). My point is regarding Scott the public figure. The rules are different when you step into the spotlight. My point is, when you intentionally take that step, everything changes. As much as one might wish, you are no longer a private individual. You have no right to privacy. Your legal rights change, peoples' expectations change, life changes.

I feel for him as a person. I've F'ed up publicly, I know the emotional toll. But, when you put yourself out there, you're a target for every nut job with an axe to grind. If you have major personal issues, stay behind the throne. Don't let your enthusiasm get you out from behind cover unless you are bulletproof.

Even folks who are eminently qualified to be in a position of public leadership, and are squeaky clean, don't make that step, because it's just too dangerous. Its too bad, really, but it is reality.

Was it a slap at OC? Absolutely. But we brought it on ourselves. The emperor had no clothes, so to speak.

We can all learn from this, and MOC will come out stronger if, and only if, we play this right.

It pains me to see someone go through this; it really does, but MOC has to be seen taking the moral high road by distancing itself from the behaviour. Not the person, but the behaviour. As Christians are often fond of saying; 'love the sinner, hate the sin'. Tough to do in our humanity, but necessary.

I disagree that Scott's behavior is questionable. I'm sure that, given the resources that this reporter has at hand, I could effectively smear any person here with similar tactics. This is not blind support of Scott, rather it is the realization that things happen and almost everything can be portrayed in such a way to decimate a person's character.
I agree with the notion that when we become as well-known as we have, these things are bound to happen... but it is truly sad. My sadness comes not from the attack on OC... OC will be fine. Rather, my sadness centers on Scott and what he is most likely going through. My heart goes out to him. I think he has done a fine job being a spokesperson for MOC and OC. Since that is all I am qualified to speak to, that remains my opinion of him. I truly hope he puts this attack behind him and that he realizes that most here appreciate his tenure as MOC president.
I do believe, though, that anyone running for leadership positions in MOC needs to take a long, hard look at what could come out in the future. Not "facts", mind you, but contrived appearances perpetuated by those whose sole purpose is to cast aspersions upon others. My concern, though, is that we would all fall short of being "attack-proof, and this will have a chilling effect on those who would be able to effectively lead this disparate group now and in the future. Because we have become a force within the state of Michigan, this type of attack is to be expected.

I wish Scott all the best and hope that his association with MOC, and with gun rights in Michigan, do not waver because of what some reporter decided he could insinuate about one of our own.

DrTodd · Nov 2, 2011

autosurgeon said:
Those are just paragraph breaks... So it does not look like a wall of text when pasted.

Sounds good...

PDinDetroit · Nov 2, 2011

Shadow Bear said:
Exactly; you have to get out in front of it, and control the message.

How many people who are backing Scott knew about all this stuff beforehand? And, why didn't you suggest that perhaps being out front, with a target on him, wasn't the best idea?

NRA was smart enough to put Charleton Heston out front- who's going to bad mouth Moses? Even if Ted Nugent is probably better qualified.....

If this information was kept secret from membership, shame on him.

If you all knew about it, and elected him president, shame on you.

Either way, the damage is immense...

I knew about most of this stuff FAR BEFOREHAND of this Obvious Hit Piece. I also knew FIRSTHAND of how Scott was changing his life, especially over the past 6-8 Months. He is my friend and I stand with him, not in judgment of him.

Should you really be judging anyone here?

Let's use me as an example for a minute here. I spoke at the Royal Oak City Commission Meetings which are televised, was Interviewed by WXYZ TV (Bill Proctor) for a spot that aired as the First Segment for the 6 PM and 11 PM News, and was featured in a 2 Page Spread for a Sunday Edition of the Detroit Free Press - all of these were tied to the Arts, Beats, and Eats Contract Issue. Even though I was only an OCDO Member at that time, I became a Defacto Spokesperson for Open Carry in MI. Who vetted me that I should be allowed to participate as I did? What possible skeletons would be in my past, maybe even in the present?

The fact is that MOC and OCDO are Grass-Roots, Volunteer, Non-Paid Position Organizations. EVERYONE HAS DIRT, you will never get someone without it.

DrTodd · Nov 2, 2011

PDinDetroit said:
I knew about most of this stuff FAR BEFOREHAND of this Obvious Hit Piece. I also knew FIRSTHAND of how Scott was changing his life, especially over the past 6-8 Months. He is my friend and I stand with him, not in judgment of him.

Should you really be judging anyone here?

Let's use me as an example for a minute here. I spoke at the Royal Oak City Commission Meetings which are televised, was Interviewed by WXYZ TV (Bill Proctor) for a spot that aired as the First Segment for the 6 PM and 11 PM News, and was featured in a 2 Page Spread for a Sunday Edition of the Detroit Free Press - all of these were tied to the Arts, Beats, and Eats Contract Issue. Even though I was only an OCDO Member at that time, I became a Defacto Spokesperson for Open Carry in MI. Who vetted me that I should be allowed to participate as I did? What possible skeletons would be in my past, maybe even in the present?

The fact is that MOC and OCDO are Grass-Roots, Volunteer, Non-Paid Position Organizations. EVERYONE HAS DIRT, you will never get someone without it.

Your association with me on ocdo certainly calls your appropriateness for the task into question. Actually, the fact that MOC would have me as member brings the whole organization's scruples into question! OK, lame attempt to match Groucho Marx's statement that he would never join any group that would have him as member. But in the attempt at levity, maybe there is some truth... we all fall short.

PDinDetroit · Nov 2, 2011

DrTodd said:
Your association with me on ocdo certainly calls your appropriateness for the task into question. Actually, the fact that MOC would have me as member brings the whole organization's scruples into question! OK, lame attempt to match Groucho Marx's statement that he would never join any group that would have him as member. But in the attempt at levity, maybe there is some truth... we all fall short.

We, as individuals, do fall short and this is why we have a COMMUNITY OF LIKE-MINDED PERSONS (READ: ORGANIZATION). It take a community to teach a village how to OC...

Michigander · Nov 2, 2011

I personally don't consider this the type of big deal that it seems like many here do. While this does injure our cause, media damage to MOC should not be thought of as extremely critical, and for that matter I'm not even sure how bad it was for already pro gun viewers to see the group in Wayne standing up to the cops.

Mike and John, to their everlasting credit, run this website on their own in such a way that this forum will always be a fall back point after a state level organizational failure. Not that I'm saying this was some kind of crippling blow to MOC, just that it wouldn't matter if it was. We will always have the forum to come back to and reconfigure, and what's more, the forum, the cause itself, it doesn't require leaders, only safe and responsible individuals who wish to make a difference. I've long maintained here that we'll have lost our way as soon as we loose sight of the fact that no one here is required to or prohibited from doing anything legal, and that the core of our efforts is people with ideas asking for volunteers.

About the accusations themselves, I totally agree with Scott, in that personal issues are personal and don't merit discussion either here or on the news unless there were criminal convictions, or unless he so wishes. If these accusations make him decide to permanently step aside, I merely wish him all the best, and encourage everyone to remember that his departure isn't any type of void that we can't all fill well.

eastmeyers · Nov 3, 2011

This was found on FaceBook this morning...

https://www.facebook.com/#!/supportscottwebb

It seems to be a page to support our friend Scott Webb.

Personally, I joined the page, as well as posted on my wall, as well as a few other pro-2A supporter friends wall's.

Goes to show, there is a lot of support out their for our friend! If you check out Rob W.'s page, it seems to be pro Scott as well!

Orion · Nov 3, 2011

I watched the replay of the story last night as found it to be a complete smear campaign and waste of time. The PPO's they referenced were ancient, nothing current, the women clearly had an agenda and were more than willing to go along with Fox 2 and bash Scott, and in turn the open carry movement. Rob Wolchek clearly has an anti-carry agenda, his remarks to the contrary notwithstanding. I loved how they had to point out that the scene at the sheriffs' office took place just after an office was killed and that Scott had the audacity to try and carry in at that time. As if our rights are subject to suspension at times due to circumstance. What a croc. Shame on Rob and shame on Fox 2.

HKcarrier · Nov 3, 2011

What I want to know is, Scott clearly knew this was coming... I'm sure that's why he stepped down... but why did he not come clean about it? Why not hit first? Why not come out with it. He could have explained everything and went thru the time line, etc and in my opinion the hit would have been softened.

Bad analogy: Sort of like Eminem in 8 mile... in the rap battle... he went over everything the papa-doc guy was going to say about him and owned it... yeah I"m white... yeah I"m trailer trash... yeah this and yeah that... then the dude who wanted to trash him out didn't have anything left to say.

Hind sight is 20/20 but seems like if Scott just said "You know what... this new report is going to come out on me... all about my past.. here's what it is all about.. here's what happened, here's why, here's when it was... etc."

Seems like that would have taken a lot of the sting out of the report and all the "gotcha" factor that the news loves to hype.

stainless1911 · Nov 3, 2011

Thats what I was thinking. Movie was epic too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHE0wmgljco

Big Gay Al · Nov 3, 2011

Shadow Bear said:
Exactly; you have to get out in front of it, and control the message.

How many people who are backing Scott knew about all this stuff beforehand? And, why didn't you suggest that perhaps being out front, with a target on him, wasn't the best idea?

NRA was smart enough to put Charleton Heston out front- who's going to bad mouth Moses? Even if Ted Nugent is probably better qualified.....

If this information was kept secret from membership, shame on him.

If you all knew about it, and elected him president, shame on you.

Either way, the damage is immense...

So he's had 6 PPOs issued and dismissed, so? How many on this forum maybe have a misdemeanor conviction? More than one I'll bet. So they found a couple (i.e. more than one) ex spouse/significant other to bad mouth him. How many of you out there, have former spouses/lovers/Significant others that would bad mouth you on public TV, if given the chance? In case you haven't looked, MOC is not the NRA. MOC does not have millions of members. Consequently, the pool from which MOC has to pick it's officers is not very big. And it's even smaller, when you consider that not everyone in MOC wants to run MOC.

Appreciate Scot for the efforts he gave on behalf of MOC, don't judge him on a one sided story obviously designed from the outset to make him look bad. And move on. The less we dwell on this, the faster it will go away.

DrTodd · Nov 3, 2011

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEPSIAkmzAE&feature=related

scot623 · Nov 3, 2011

As VP and current acting MOC President, I hold no ill will against Scott. He was a great MOC President. He stepped down, no one asked him to. Did he have a rocky past? Clearly. Was he ever charged and or convicted of a crime? No. Did the state of Michigan qualify him for a CPL? Yes. In my book that tells me any legal or health problems(if any) someone may have had are 3-8 years in the past. Does no one deserve the chance to grow and become a better person? Our last 3 United States Presidents admitted to illegal drug use but America knew that was in the past and judged them on what they've done recently. Is MOC supposed to have higher standards than that?

stainless1911 · Nov 3, 2011

Scott has made the necessary improvements in his life, and he has done so much for the OC movement, we shouldn't take the irresponsible words and actions of a known enemy, and use that to hang him out to dry. That would be pretty two faced if we did. I cant condone or even verify the validity of the claims against him made in that smear piece. If some of that is true, then its sick, but try to walk in those shoes for a while before you pass judgment on him. There isnt any reason to condemn him forever for it. Whats done is done, and if he has beaten those demons, then he has now gained the vision of experience, making him stronger and more capable than he was, and those who haven't walked in his shoes. I certainly am grateful for what he has done as a long time OCer, and for the hard work he has done in MOC as president. I wish him the best of luck, and even hope he can find a good woman that can make him happy.

T Mack · Nov 3, 2011

Copy that..

scot623 said:
As VP and current acting MOC President, I hold no ill will against Scott. He was a great MOC President. He stepped down, no one asked him to. Did he have a rocky past? Clearly. Was he ever charged and or convicted of a crime? No. Did the state of Michigan qualify him for a CPL? Yes. In my book that tells me any legal or health problems(if any) someone may have had are 3-8 years in the past. Does no one deserve the chance to grow and become a better person? Our last 3 United States Presidents admitted to illegal drug use but America knew that was in the past and judged them on what they've done recently. Is MOC supposed to have higher standards than that?

No.... Period...

griffin · Nov 4, 2011

eastmeyers said:
This was found on FaceBook this morning...

https://www.facebook.com/#!/supportscottwebb

It seems to be a page to support our friend Scott Webb.

I can't view it. Apparently you have to have a facebook account.

TheSzerdi · Nov 6, 2011

So I posted a reply to this story on Rob Wolchek's Facebook wall.

Any valid PPO restricts the right to even POSSESS a firearm. Obviously none of these trumped up PPO's had any validity as they were ALL issued ex-parte* and DISMISSED as soon as challenged.

*Ex-parte means they were issued without the accused present or able to defend himself. Also, judge's are REQUIRED by Mich law to issue a PPO against a firearm owner just because someone says "I'm scared of them!" BS.

Great smear campaign you hack.

Just checked the wall today and my post has been deleted. Rather than defend himself, the coward simply deleted my comment. Good job Wolchek.

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