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Inadvertant mistake results in parents' arrest, 3-yr-old whisked away by CPS

Jack House

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No one is trying to nitpick. I'm just pointing out that just because they bought some stuff doesn't mean anything.

I agree that the evidence suggests they weren't shoplifters and that it was a serious overreaction.

Posted using my HTC Evo
 

MilProGuy

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Jul 7, 2011
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Mississippi
Personally, If I was the manager and someone walked out with something as little as a sandwich I would have told them to make good on what they owed me and told them to never come back. I wouldn't have the fight for the $5 they were willing to give me.

I can see it being an honest mistake. I've walked into gas stations and stuck gum in my back pocket before I realized it and almost have walked out without paying for it. Or I've walked out with a bottle of pop in my hand before. But I haven't, that I know of, taken something without paying for it. But in my opinion you don't forget to pay for something in your buggy.

I certainly agree with the first point you made.

However, we will probably never actually know the "truth" about what actually happened.

Personally, I don't open anything, nor consume any edible product that I pick up in a store until it is paid for.

Why? To avoid the same thing happening to me that happened to this woman and her husband.
 

since9

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Looks like the store kind of overreacted.

Since9, where did you send your letter to? If an email address, can you post it. I looked at the Safeway web site and have located several means of contacting them, but if you've found something that goes to the "right" place, that would be great for those that want to communicate concerns. Otherwise, I'll post all of the contact info I have.

Hi, markand. Just the Safeway site in general.

ETA Two Addresses:

Customer Service Center
Safeway Inc. - M/S 10501
P.O. Box 29093
Phoenix, AZ 85038-9093

Public Affairs Department
5918 Stoneridge Mall Road, Pleasanton, CA 94588

I also sent an e-mail to their ethics hotline: business.ethics@safeway.com
 
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since9

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On another note...four hours for the police to respond? WTF?

I might be a bit over the top on this issue, but some time within 60 seconds of being wrongfully accused, I'd have said, "I'm leaving now" or would have called 911 myself complaining of being wrongfully detained.

Probably both. I might have made a beeline for the PD to file a wrongful something or other complaint against the the seriously errant proprietor ("Safe"way)

I just googled this story and it is everywhere. I would expect Safeway to be asking that the charges be dropped and offering a profound apology any day now.

If not, they'll loose millions. Sucks to be stupid them. Hopefully, they'll unstupify themselves without further delay.

I'll have them know, anything less than a full unstupification, without any attempt to keep stupid ground, will result in unbelievably stupid and ridiculous amounts of profits soaring straight out their stupid windows.

On the other hand, if they pull their heads out of their butts, realize this is America, where citizens' rights are preeminent and protected by the law of the land, commonly referred to as the Constitution of the United States of America, then perhaps, their business might actually survive this unbelievable faux pas.

If not, their business is already gone.
 

Badger Johnson

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^^ As Mr Since says, I believe it is not within a store's power to detain you after a suspected theft. You can just walk out and if they grab you it's assault and battery, I'd wager.

But, when you're in the midst of stuff like this you aren't really thinking logically.
 

LV XD9

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Henderson, Nevada, USA
Personally, I don't open anything, nor consume any edible product that I pick up in a store until it is paid for.

Why? To avoid the same thing happening to me that happened to this woman and her husband.

Same here. I've never understood how some people can walk into a store and start eating and/or drinking something they haven't paid for. Same with clothing - if you haven't purchased it, you shouldn't be wearing it yet.

I have no sympathy for the couple in the OP. If they were really that hungry, they could have easily walked in, purchased the sandwiches, eaten them, and then continued shopping. Their misplaced sense of entitlement created the whole situation.

I'm sure the charges will ultimately be dropped, especially with the publicity surrounding the incident, but hopefully they've learned a lesson here and are smart enough to pass it on to their kid.

Now, a night in jail for both of them seems a little excessive for petty larceny/shoplifting/whatever, but I don't know the laws of the state, so I have no idea if that's normal for those parts or not. You would think a ticket/order to appear would make more sense for a couple of sandwiches... And the four hour wait seems ridiculous, but I've seen worse here in Vegas when the call was about something minor.

Just my opinion, of course.
 

PT111

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, South Carolina, USA
No one is trying to nitpick. I'm just pointing out that just because they bought some stuff doesn't mean anything.

I agree that the evidence suggests they weren't shoplifters and that it was a serious overreaction.

Posted using my HTC Evo
.

A difference in terminology here but they were shoplifters and met all of the legal definitions of being a shoplifter. I think they probably were not intentional shoplifters and there was a serious overreaction but they did break the law.
 

Badger Johnson

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.

A difference in terminology here but they were shoplifters and met all of the legal definitions of being a shoplifter. I think they probably were not intentional shoplifters and there was a serious overreaction but they did break the law.

You might think so, but you might be wrong:

Definition of shoplifting
(1) willfully taking possession of or concealing unpurchased goods that are offered for sale;
(2) with the intention of converting the merchandise to the taker's personal use without paying the purchase price. Possession or concealment of goods typically encompasses actions both on and outside the premises.

I'd say they'd have a hard time proving intent, given:
1. The small amount of money ($2.50 per person);
2. The lack of true intent;
3. Lack of obvious 'concealment' (keeping the wrappers).

There was actually two incidents, each a $2.50 purloining of sandwiches by a woman and her spouse.

Note they put 'willfully' and 'intention' in there both, which tells me that intent is a big part of the definition. Having the money to pay and offering to do so with good intent belies the need to arrest anyone.

----
As the manager, here's what I would have done. I'd have confronted them and when they showed it was a mistake, I'd have given them the sandwiches as a treat and reward for being honest and forthright and her being a vet. That would have gotten Safeway's name in the paper and in a good way. 'Store donates food to vets', or something. Win-win.
 
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sudden valley gunner

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Actus Reus? Mens Rea? Victim?

Study Blackstone founding of our law folks.

It was an honest mistake, and they were punished without due process for that mistake.
 

Badger Johnson

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Actus Reus? Mens Rea? Victim?

Study Blackstone founding of our law folks.

It was an honest mistake, and they were punished without due process for that mistake.

For the Latin-challenged:

The terms actus reus and mens rea developed in English Law, are derived from the principle stated by Edward Coke, namely, actus non facit reum nisi mens sit rea,[1] which means: "an act does not make a person guilty unless (their) mind is also guilty";

Great post.
 

Mican

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Oct 25, 2011
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California
.

A difference in terminology here but they were shoplifters and met all of the legal definitions of being a shoplifter. I think they probably were not intentional shoplifters and there was a serious overreaction but they did break the law.

No, you are completely wrong. Shoplifting, like any crime of theft, requires the element of intent. Specifically, the legal definition of shoplifting is the wilful concealment of unpurchased merchandise. There is no such thing as an "unintentional" shoplifter!
 

Badger Johnson

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I think a good lawyer could argue that eating the food while shopping is a common practice (while retaining the wrappers). I have taken a drink from a jug of juice in a store before and put the jug in the cart. I think grocery stores, to be covered should have a sign saying 'no food consumption on premises' on the door or the like.

If you did a poll I think you'd find that almost everyone who has been in a grocery store has eaten food while shopping. Most from food they're buying but many will eat produce (olives, grapes, bite-sized stuff) which is not strictly legal.

If I'm buying a self-serve container of olives and I pick a brand to eat one of that I haven't tried before to see if it's good and don't like it should I ask the clerk to charge me an extra penny? I'd expect the stores would approve of some minor 'sampling' if you're also buying. Of course you can always ask the produce manager first :)

$.02
 
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LV XD9

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I think a good lawyer could argue that eating the food while shopping is a common practice (while retaining the wrappers). I have taken a drink from a jug of juice in a store before and put the jug in the cart. I think grocery stores, to be covered should have a sign saying 'no food consumption on premises' on the door or the like.
Lots of other people doing it doesn't make it right. A store shouldn't have to have a sign for common sense things like "you don't eat the food before you buy it." If you haven't paid for it, it's not yours to eat or drink.

Badger Johnson said:
If you did a poll I think you'd find that almost everyone who has been in a grocery store has eaten food while shopping. Most from food they're buying but many will eat produce (olives, grapes, bite-sized stuff) which is not strictly legal.
You're right - eating food you haven't paid for (and have no intention of ever paying for) is not strictly legal. It's called stealing. You can attempt to justify it any way you want, but taking something without paying for it is stealing.
Badger Johnson said:
If I'm buying a self-serve container of olives and I pick a brand to eat one of that I haven't tried before to see if it's good and don't like it should I ask the clerk to charge me an extra penny? I'd expect the stores would approve of some minor 'sampling' if you're also buying. Of course you can always ask the produce manager first :)

$.02
There's nothing stopping you from buying a small amount of olives to see if you like them, right? Nor is there anything stopping you from paying for the "sample" you've eaten in the store, right? So really, it seems like you're just trying to justify your less-than-honorable actions.


This is getting way off topic. I never meant to derail the thread, just wanted to toss my two cents in about certain aspects of this situation.
 

Jack House

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I don't see the problem with having a snack while you shop then paying for said snack when you check out. If you have a problem remembering to pay for it, then yes it's a problem. And I do see a problem with produce sold by weight. As you are not paying for what you have eaten. But if you eat it and then you pay for it, what's the problem? Seriously.
 

since9

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I think a good lawyer could argue that eating the food while shopping is a common practice...

Theft is theft, no matter how common, and robbing hard-working, honest, law-abiding people of their livelihood is wrong.

I had multiple opportunities to rob my employers over my youth.

I did not. Why? It wasn't the right thing to do. It wasn't then, it isn't now.

Grab a clue.
 
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