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Thread: Why not just comply (with the police when they stop you and ask for ID)???

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    Why not just comply (with the police when they stop you and ask for ID)???

    hi everyone,

    im really curious about why some folks like to film the police and argue with them about giving them your ID and not allowing them to check your weapon?
    i have been open carrying for only a small time now but i have not had one problem with the police or anyone else. i smile at others and act very polite and dress profesionally and i have not had any bad reactions. i am prepared to have the police called on me and i know i will act professional. if they want my ID? i have no problem giving them my ID. if they want to run the serial number on my sidearm? "please do" will be my response.
    why not just comply??? but please, i am hear to learn about the community of open carriers. so correct me if need be.
    Last edited by 915darling; 11-03-2011 at 11:42 AM.

  2. #2
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 915darling View Post
    hi everyone,

    im really curious about why some folks like to film the police and argue with them about giving them your ID and not allowing them to check your weapon?
    i have been open carrying for only a small time now but i have not had one problem with the police or anyone else. i smile at others and act very polite and dress profesionally and i have not had any bad reactions. i am prepared to have the police called on me and i know i will act professional. if they want my ID? i have no problem giving them my ID. if they want to run the serial number on my sidearm? "please do" will be my response.
    why not just comply??? but please, i am hear to learn about the community of open carriers. so correct me if need be.

    Thank you guys and gals
    You don't want to learn about the community from my reply to those questions...Darling!
    Last edited by peter nap; 11-01-2011 at 10:03 AM.

  3. #3
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    "You don't want to learn about the community from my reply to those questions...Darling!"



    LOL Great Answer

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    This question has been posted ad nauseam, and the answer as to Why you don't allow people to run roughshod over your rights has been posted at least as often.

    Be a good puppy, roll over, pee on your stomach.... or be the top dog and have civil servants serve you, it's up to you.
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 11-01-2011 at 10:03 AM.

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    "Fallschirmjäger"
    "This question has been posted ad nauseam, and the answer as to Why you don't allow people to run roughshod over your rights has been posted at least as often."

    "Be a good puppy, roll over, pee on your stomach.... or be the top dog and have civil servants serve you, it's up to you."




    i actually really respect that answer. good way of looking at it. thanks for the insite.

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    I'll take a swing at it:

    OP if you don't mind, who are, where do you live, what are the most valuable things you own and how much money do you have and what's your credit card info? I promise I just want to check it out and will never in the future attempt to deprive you of any of it. You trust me right?


    BTW it's not unprecedented that governments have a database which they then abuse to deprive people of their belongings or even their freedom. Are you willing to risk that just for the sake of pleasing some stranger in a blue costume?

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    Darling, you ask "Why not comply?" and I respond with "Why should I?"

    Really, it's a serious question. Why should I comply without good reason or just cause? IF I were involved in a situation that justified cooperating with the police, I will to the extent the law requires, all while remaining courteous, professional and calm. But I am not going to do whatever the man in blue wants me to do just because he says so, especially when I am engaged in a perfectly legal activity.

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    I believe it's sometimes referred to as "The Slippery Slope".

    Sure, what they ask of you now may be easy, you really have nothing to hide, you've done nothing wrong.

    "Can I see your ID?" Sure. "Can I have your Weapon? For officer safety, you see." Sure, no problem. "Mind if I come into your house an look around?" Uh, OK, sure. "I would like to look at your financial records, just to make sure." ummm... "Now miss Darling, you don't have anything to hide do you?" NO, Of course not! Here's my finances.

    "Excellent! I need to see your e-mails from the past year." Why? "Well it's for officer safety you see." ?? Really? "Yes Ma'am." I see...

    Entertaining right? The point is, at what point is enough enough? At what point do you resist and ask the officer what right he has to see these things? Many here will tell you that point is at the beginning. "Can I see your ID?"

    If the Officer has no right, no RAS or PC that he can explain to you, then he has no need to see your ID for you engaging in a lawful activity. If what you are doing is illegal, then he can arrest you, THEN have your ID.

    At which point the Officer is THEN subject to the law, and your Civil Rights. If, instead, you willfully give up your Rights, then you have willfully given up your Rights!!

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    There's no problem as long as there's no problem. But if someone doesn't like you for some reason, whether now or in the future (keep in mind that the criteria for social acceptability change over time and they will "get" you tomorrow for something that you did "innocently" today), then you'll be in deep kimchee at some point. The only way around it is to keep the agents of the state grounded and fettered. When you stop insisting that your rights and dignity as a citizen be respected, you lose 'em both.
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    I smell a troll. When I joined up on OCDO, I spent hours reading the previous posts and topics and already had an inclination of an answer to that question 915darling poses. On top of the "gov" tagline for occupation, and the way the questioned was framed to illicit a backlash from the forum regulars, I wouldn't waste much time responding.

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    Regular Member ODA 226's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 915darling View Post
    hi everyone,

    im really curious about why some folks like to film the police and argue with them about giving them your ID and not allowing them to check your weapon?
    i have been open carrying for only a small time now but i have not had one problem with the police or anyone else. i smile at others and act very polite and dress profesionally and i have not had any bad reactions. i am prepared to have the police called on me and i know i will act professional. if they want my ID? i have no problem giving them my ID. if they want to run the serial number on my sidearm? "please do" will be my response.
    why not just comply??? but please, i am hear to learn about the community of open carriers. so correct me if need be.

    Thank you guys and gals
    How about learning capitalization?
    Bitka Sve Rešava!
    B-2-10 SFG(A)/ A-2-11 SFG(A) 1977-1994

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    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 915darling View Post
    hi everyone,

    im really curious about why some folks like to film the police and argue with them about giving them your ID and not allowing them to check your weapon?
    i have been open carrying for only a small time now but i have not had one problem with the police or anyone else. i smile at others and act very polite and dress professionally and i have not had any bad reactions. i am prepared to have the police called on me and i know i will act professional. if they want my ID? i have no problem giving them my ID. if they want to run the serial number on my sidearm? "please do" will be my response.
    why not just comply??? but please, i am hear to learn about the community of open carriers. so correct me if need be.

    Thank you guys and gals
    It's the police who are arguing. Why stop a guy walking his dog just because he's engaged in a legal and Constitutionally protected right?

    Run your serial number - take your gun? What's the cause for doing this since you're (presumably) not breaking the law. You're teaching them that their non-legal conduct
    is appropriate.

    Do you have a recorder on you running when you OC? Why not? What if a citizen confronts you and calls you in as brandishing - you have literally no defense.

    You are just a noob and naive. Keep OC-ing and you'll learn why people object to being cuffed and stuffed when doing a legal activity.
    A gun in a holster is better than one drawn and dispensing bullets. Concealed forces the latter. - ixtow

    Hi, I'm hypercritical. But I mean no harm, I just like to try to look deeply at life

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TraumaRN View Post
    I smell a troll. When I joined up on OCDO, I spent hours reading the previous posts and topics and already had an inclination of an answer to that question 915darling poses. On top of the "gov" tagline for occupation, and the way the questioned was framed to illicit a backlash from the forum regulars, I wouldn't waste much time responding.
    Yep!

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    "Fallschirmjäger"
    "This question has been posted ad nauseam, and the answer as to Why you don't allow people to run roughshod over your rights has been posted at least as often."

    "Be a good puppy, roll over, pee on your stomach.... or be the top dog and have civil servants serve you, it's up to you."
    Quote Originally Posted by 915darling View Post
    I actually really respect that answer. good way of looking at it. thanks for the insight.
    It was a crass and brutish answer; but it was framed that way to make it clear what the stakes are.
    There are rules that all members of the public must follow, and the police are only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent upon every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence. That being the case, would you allow any other citizen to seize your person without cause or warrant? Allow anyone else to seize your property without cause? To seize your papers without cause?

    Think for a moment, why there is a Fourth Amendment that protects you from such actions. What use is the 4th Amendment to someone who is innocent and has nothing to fear? Find your answer for that, remembering the climate of the time that the 4th Amendment was written, and you have your answer as to why it's there, who it protects, and from whom it protects the citizen.

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    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    I think if every LEO was pure and innocent and just mistaken during 'stop and ID' and 'warrentless searches', or misinformed, then it wouldn't be a problem to show them ID. But they're not. In fact, I'd say almost all stop and IDs are LEOs searching for a reason to 'do their job' (i.e. arrest someone) and try to get the person to incriminate themselves, or resist or disrespect the cop. It's due to them wanting to be elite and not liking that law abiding citizens are ALSO allowed by law and by the Constitution to open carry a firearm, add to that a bit of testosterone poisoning, or with female LEOs also a misplaced sense of entitlement (one female LEO admitted she was initially outraged to see a citizen given the right she was jealously guarding (carrying a firearm)).

    Also remember that running your serial is not without problem. For one thing it involves them handling your (an unfamiliar) firearm, probably sweeping you or someone in the process.

    Like I said you just don't know how a problem can occur, and letting un-lawful actions take place can put you in danger.
    Last edited by Badger Johnson; 11-01-2011 at 03:05 PM.
    A gun in a holster is better than one drawn and dispensing bullets. Concealed forces the latter. - ixtow

    Hi, I'm hypercritical. But I mean no harm, I just like to try to look deeply at life

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    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 915darling View Post
    if they want my ID? i have no problem giving them my ID. if they want to run the serial number on my sidearm? "please do" will be my response.
    why not just comply???
    PLEASE DO! lol, please, please, PLEASE DO violate the constitution, it's MY pleasure officer!

    Why not just comply? Because lot's of good men died fighting a revolution against a tynranical government so they could live in a more free society, one that ended up developing a bill of rights a few years later to make sure government couldn't just hop into your life for no reason. Lot's of good people died fighting others who had plans for world domination, eventually coming to the U.S. and ultimately taking your rights. Lots of people died for this idea of freedom, or at least a more free society.

    ^ So who the hell are we to just surrender those rights? What a slap in the face to our founding fathers who put it all on the line to declare independance from tyranny and eventually make the bill of rights, ultimately committing treason. What a slap in the face to the revolutionaries who died fighting the red coats. What a slap in the face to the soldiers who died fighting the nazi's in WWII.

    Lot's of men died so that you'd have the right to live free from government obstruction so long as you don't effect anyone else's life, liberty, or persuit of happiness- and what do you say to the government getting into your way for no reason? PLEASE DO


    I'm Schlitz, and I support this message.


    EDIT: On a different note, what about that guy who showed ID in california and the cops let him go? The one where the cops came out later and measured to find that he was in a school zone. They had his information from earlier and were able to charge him with a crime. yea that guy.... < all for cooperating (searching for a link)
    Last edited by Schlitz; 11-01-2011 at 03:24 PM.
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

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    Regular Member Old Virginia Joe's Avatar
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    This question brings to mind a quote from one of the founding fathers, who said something about "may your chains lay light upon your back as you lick the heels of the tyrants, and may we forget that you were our fellow countryman."
    VCDL, Army Vet, Virginia Native

    Hey, Libtards, it's the "Bill of Rights," not the "Bill of Needs" . . . . .

    If the 2A does not apply to modern weapons, then the 1A does not apply to modern communications like the Internet! How do you like them apples!?

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    Sam Adams

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Virginia Joe View Post
    This question brings to mind a quote from one of the founding fathers, who said something about "may your chains lay light upon your back as you lick the heels of the tyrants, and may we forget that you were our fellow countryman."
    "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." — Samuel Adams

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    Regular Member Old Virginia Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtackDuck View Post
    "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." — Samuel Adams
    yes, that's it! Thanks!
    VCDL, Army Vet, Virginia Native

    Hey, Libtards, it's the "Bill of Rights," not the "Bill of Needs" . . . . .

    If the 2A does not apply to modern weapons, then the 1A does not apply to modern communications like the Internet! How do you like them apples!?

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    OP I suggest you watch this:


  21. #21
    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    I will put it another way.

    "Papers.....I must see your papers."

    Or another way.

    "Officer why did you pull me over, just to search your car and check your license and insurance. You don't mind getting down and licking my boots while my partner searches your car do you? DO IT NOW CITIZEN BEFORE I TAZER YOU."

    Just extreme examples but they just need a small seed to grow; reference Germany 1935.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by 915darling View Post
    SNIP why not just comply???
    Oh, I always comply. And, cooperate fully. To the full extent required by our laws. Which is another way of saying, "to the extent of the cop's authority." For example:

    Cop: "If you are doing nothing wrong, why don't you want to talk to us? We're just doing our jobs and would appreciate a little cooperation."

    Citizen: "Oh, I'm sorry, officer. I'm a patriotic American. I will cooperate to the full extent required by our laws."

    Cop: "Great. So, what are you doing here?"

    Citizen: " <silence> "

    __________________


    Also:

    No right is held more sacred, or is more carefully guarded, by the common law than the right of every individual to the possession and control of his own person, free from all restraint or interference of others, unless by clear and unquestionable authority of law. Union Pacific Rail Co. vs Botsford, as quoted by Terry vs Ohio.

    No right more sacred. No right more carefully guarded. Free from all restraint. Free even from all interference. Unless by clear and unquestionable authority of law.

    Terry v Ohio: http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/htm...2_0001_ZO.html

    _________________________


    And, as Schlitz references above, literally over a million Americans have died defending our rights. I'm not going to spit on their graves by waiving them the first time a cop gets curious or suspicious.

    Actually, it goes back further. Most of our rights were bought with blood and already established before the American Revolution. Some go back almost 800 years to Magna Carta. Numerous people paid in blood to win those rights. Countless more suffered for lack of them. Thomas More. John Lilburne. Star Chamber Court. William Penn. This is the short list.

    A cop's desire pales into insignificance against the history and what it cost in blood and suffering to win the rights we have today.
    Last edited by Citizen; 11-01-2011 at 10:26 PM.

  23. #23
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    This is also a must see...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

  24. #24
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    I can't see YouTube links from work, but I assume at least one of the posted links is to the famous video titled "Why You Shouldn't Talk To The Police." Always a good watch.

    There are two short answers:

    1. Motive
    2. Error

    1. The job of the police is to arrest criminals. They don't know that you aren't a criminal, so the purpose of talking to you is to try to decide if you are a criminal or not. If you are not, then why give them the chance to conclude incorrectly. Which leads us to #2.

    2. Even if they have the best intentions, they are human, they make mistakes. It is extremely costly to recover from a mistake that leads to a mis-identification, arrest, jail, etc. What if there is another "Joe Smith" who just robbed the piggly-wiggly down the street? What if the officer transposes numbers from your DL or serial number, and hits a fugitive warrant or a stolen weapon? Sure, it'll eventually get straightened out... but that's not how I want to spend several hours of my life, or dollars of my paycheck.

    Nobody is suggesting you be impolite or rude. Just that it doesn't make sense to volunteer to be a fish.

    TFred

  25. #25
    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 915darling View Post
    hi everyone,

    im really curious about why some folks like to film the police and argue with them about giving them your ID and not allowing them to check your weapon?
    i have been open carrying for only a small time now but i have not had one problem with the police or anyone else. i smile at others and act very polite and dress profesionally and i have not had any bad reactions. i am prepared to have the police called on me and i know i will act professional. if they want my ID? i have no problem giving them my ID. if they want to run the serial number on my sidearm? "please do" will be my response.
    why not just comply??? but please, i am hear to learn about the community of open carriers. so correct me if need be.

    Thank you guys and gals
    I'll be interested to read the logical and intelligent responses you get in response to your inquiry.
    Proud Veteran ~ U.S. Army / Army Reserve

    Mississippi State Guard ~ Honorably Retired


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