Why not just comply (with the police when they stop you and ask for ID)???

I will put it another way.

"Papers.....I must see your papers."

Or another way.

"Officer why did you pull me over, just to search your car and check your license and insurance. You don't mind getting down and licking my boots while my partner searches your car do you? DO IT NOW CITIZEN BEFORE I TAZER YOU."

Just extreme examples but they just need a small seed to grow; reference Germany 1935.

915darling said:

SNIP why not just comply???

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Oh, I always comply. And, cooperate fully. To the full extent required by our laws. Which is another way of saying, "to the extent of the cop's authority." For example:

Cop: "If you are doing nothing wrong, why don't you want to talk to us? We're just doing our jobs and would appreciate a little cooperation."

Citizen: "Oh, I'm sorry, officer. I'm a patriotic American. I will cooperate to the full extent required by our laws."

Cop: "Great. So, what are you doing here?"

Citizen: " <silence> "

__________________


Also:

No right is held more sacred, or is more carefully guarded, by the common law than the right of every individual to the possession and control of his own person, free from all restraint or interference of others, unless by clear and unquestionable authority of law. Union Pacific Rail Co. vs Botsford, as quoted by Terry vs Ohio.

No right more sacred. No right more carefully guarded. Free from all restraint. Free even from all interference. Unless by clear and unquestionable authority of law.

Terry v Ohio: http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0392_0001_ZO.html

_________________________


And, as Schlitz references above, literally over a million Americans have died defending our rights. I'm not going to spit on their graves by waiving them the first time a cop gets curious or suspicious.

Actually, it goes back further. Most of our rights were bought with blood and already established before the American Revolution. Some go back almost 800 years to Magna Carta. Numerous people paid in blood to win those rights. Countless more suffered for lack of them. Thomas More. John Lilburne. Star Chamber Court. William Penn. This is the short list.

A cop's desire pales into insignificance against the history and what it cost in blood and suffering to win the rights we have today.

This is also a must see...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

I can't see YouTube links from work, but I assume at least one of the posted links is to the famous video titled "Why You Shouldn't Talk To The Police." Always a good watch.

There are two short answers:

1. Motive
2. Error

1. The job of the police is to arrest criminals. They don't know that you aren't a criminal, so the purpose of talking to you is to try to decide if you are a criminal or not. If you are not, then why give them the chance to conclude incorrectly. Which leads us to #2.

2. Even if they have the best intentions, they are human, they make mistakes. It is extremely costly to recover from a mistake that leads to a mis-identification, arrest, jail, etc. What if there is another "Joe Smith" who just robbed the piggly-wiggly down the street? What if the officer transposes numbers from your DL or serial number, and hits a fugitive warrant or a stolen weapon? Sure, it'll eventually get straightened out... but that's not how I want to spend several hours of my life, or dollars of my paycheck.

Nobody is suggesting you be impolite or rude. Just that it doesn't make sense to volunteer to be a fish.

TFred

915darling said:

hi everyone,

im really curious about why some folks like to film the police and argue with them about giving them your ID and not allowing them to check your weapon?
i have been open carrying for only a small time now but i have not had one problem with the police or anyone else. i smile at others and act very polite and dress profesionally and i have not had any bad reactions. i am prepared to have the police called on me and i know i will act professional. if they want my ID? i have no problem giving them my ID. if they want to run the serial number on my sidearm? "please do" will be my response.
why not just comply??? but please, i am hear to learn about the community of open carriers. so correct me if need be.

Thank you guys and gals

Click to expand...

I'll be interested to read the logical and intelligent responses you get in response to your inquiry.

MilProGuy said:

I'll be interested to read the logical and intelligent responses you get in response to your inquiry.

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And, I will be interested to read posts that are not dripping with unnecessary implied criticism from people who hide behind politeness while jabbing and invalidating others, the politeness being just a smokescreen to hide what they are really doing.

MilProGuy said:

I'll be interested to read the logical and intelligent responses you get in response to your inquiry.

Click to expand...

There are plenty of logical and intelligent responses already posted. You have to understand that they're written by people that actually understand the concept of freedom, liberty and the importance of fighting tyranny. From your posts, you've clearly shown that you have little understanding. Most neocons don't, so you're not alone in your ignorance.

And it's very nice to meet you too, Mo.

MilProGuy said:

I'll be interested to read the logical and intelligent responses you get in response to your inquiry.

Click to expand...

He won't get any from you, will he General?

Schlitz said:

So who the hell are we to just surrender those rights? What a slap in the face to our founding fathers who put it all on the line to declare independance from tyranny and eventually make the bill of rights, ultimately committing treason. What a slap in the face to the revolutionaries who died fighting the red coats. What a slap in the face to the soldiers who died fighting the nazi's in WWII.

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This.

Being lazy and stupid is the greatest insult.

It's like bad parenting. If you just can't be bothered to stand up to the screaming, then the screamer wins... If you let them get away with it... It gets reinforced every time the parent fails to have more persistence, patience, and guts to do what needs doing.

The Hangman, google it. It's a poem.

Citizen said:

And, I will be interested to read posts that are not dripping with unnecessary implied criticism from people who hide behind politeness while jabbing and invalidating others, the politeness being just a smokescreen to hide what they are really doing.

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Tyranny with manners is still tyranny...

A well-spoken Tyrant is still a Tyrant...

As for MilProGuy.... I suspect he's one of those who dishes out the tyranny.

When you're the one with the tools of oppression in your hands, you rarely see anything wrong with it...

915darling said:

hi everyone,

im really curious about why some folks like to film the police and argue with them about giving them your ID and not allowing them to check your weapon?
i have been open carrying for only a small time now but i have not had one problem with the police or anyone else. i smile at others and act very polite and dress profesionally and i have not had any bad reactions. i am prepared to have the police called on me and i know i will act professional. if they want my ID? i have no problem giving them my ID. if they want to run the serial number on my sidearm? "please do" will be my response.
why not just comply??? but please, i am hear to learn about the community of open carriers. so correct me if need be.

Thank you guys and gals

Click to expand...

Very easy to answer Sugarbritches Anything you say can and will be used against you, That badge is not a crown and I have Authority Recognition Disorder. If you want to learn about the community then come to to a dinner , learn the law or atleast check your own thread.

915darling said:

hi everyone,

im really curious about why some folks like to film the police and argue with them about giving them your ID and not allowing them to check your weapon?
i have been open carrying for only a small time now but i have not had one problem with the police or anyone else. i smile at others and act very polite and dress profesionally and i have not had any bad reactions. i am prepared to have the police called on me and i know i will act professional. if they want my ID? i have no problem giving them my ID. if they want to run the serial number on my sidearm? "please do" will be my response.
why not just comply??? but please, i am hear to learn about the community of open carriers. so correct me if need be.

Thank you guys and gals

Click to expand...

I am totally new to OC and CC so I cannot even say for certain how I'd react if I was actually asked, without just cause, to present my ID, license and weapon to an officer. That being said I'd still like to ask you this. If a police officer rang your doorbell and said "Excuse me, I'd like to search your house." Would you let him in? Would you let him search your house with a warrant?

Steeler-gal said:

I am totally new to OC and CC so I cannot even say for certain how I'd react if I was actually asked, without just cause, to present my ID, license and weapon to an officer. That being said I'd still like to ask you this. If a police officer rang your doorbell and said "Excuse me, I'd like to search your house." Would you let him in? Would you let him search your house with a warrant?

Click to expand...

If he asked, no.
If he had a warrant; no choice, yes.

My ex-wife made a comment to someone one day when she didn't want to go to work (she came up with the Worst excuses for gold-bricking) and Emergency Services came out to the house one day. I told the EMS guys that there was nothing wrong and my wife in the back ground told them to go away as well.

Ten minutes later 2 local Deputies came up to the door and brushed past me into the house to do a little questioning. After they had asked their first round of questions I asked my question instead of answering.... "Are you guys claiming exigent circumstances, because I don't remember asking you to come inside. Would you mind waiting a moment, I need to make a phone call, either of you know the non-emergency number to the Sheriff's Office?"

They didn't like it, and they said I could put the phone down and just answer their questions.
They liked it less when I got connected and asked the operator to make an appointment with Deputy X and Y's supervisor and even less than that when I told the operator why I wanted the appointment and that the Deputies were still in my home.

They left shortly thereafter, and not on the best terms.
It was a nice meeting with their boss though. He seemed to express genuine concern over the two Deputies conduct.

Fallschirmjäger said:

If he asked, no.
If he had a warrant, no choice; yes.

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I was being facetious. I guess I should have said my answer to my questions would have been "No, not without a warrant."
I hope you hired a lawyer after your incident. No doubt your rights were violated.

Steeler-gal said:

I am totally new to OC and CC so I cannot even say for certain how I'd react if I was actually asked, without just cause, to present my ID, license and weapon to an officer. That being said I'd still like to ask you this. If a police officer rang your doorbell and said "Excuse me, I'd like to search your house." Would you let him in? Would you let him search your house with a warrant?

Click to expand...

That's a very good question and I think you'd be shocked at the REAL answer. I suspect 75% of the people would let them in. Then anything the Cop saw would be admissible...anything no matter how small an infraction.

It takes time and a number of encounters before you learn how to say no and not be intimidated.

Even the All American Nightmare went through a learning phase. I'm working on something now that involves the complete disregard for the law police will show if you let them.

Read and learn about your rights. Don't pay any attention to the trolls and practice standing up against anyone who would require you to violate your principals.

Regarding the OP of this thread, you guys got suckered into helping some student write a couple paragraphs for a college research paper or some other sort of troll. Who starts threads such as this one and then only replies twice before taking the fifth and disappearing? C'mon guys, when this junk happens point the troll to the search function. That is, unless y'all want to discuss topics like this ad naseum.

IanB said:

Regarding the OP of this thread, you guys got suckered into helping some student write a couple paragraphs for a college research paper or some other sort of troll. Who starts threads such as this one and then only replies twice before taking the fifth and disappearing? C'mon guys, when this junk happens point the troll to the search function. That is, unless y'all want to discuss topics like this ad naseum.

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Thanks Ian, I'd never have guessed:lol:

You don't want to learn about the community from my reply to those questions...Darling!

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To the OP:

Let me say you raise a fair question; Why not comply? I won't belabor the point of requoting others, but as they have responded, you don't have to. You aren't compelled by law to be agreeable and accommodating to these intrusions on your right to move about and behave peacefully and lawfully. People record the interactions because, our society indiscriminately more especially the courts, view the testimony of a police officer as always honest and accurate. Police use cameras to record their interactions with people, arrests, accidents, etc. and use it as a tool of their trade. Recording the actions of a police officer from a distance so as to not be interfering with his activity, is not an offense (yet). If more people turn off the camera and go away when told to do so, that will become the expected behavior. Just like giving ID on demand will be the expected behavior if enough people comply.

I am curious to know if any of the responses to your question, have caused you to rethink your position? Perhaps it takes more testicular fortitude to tell a cop "NO" and walk away than it does to OC a handgun. Aside from a run-in with a game warden (Ahem.. Conservation officer), I've never had a cross word or look when OC'ing.

Finally, welcome to OCDO. You'll find, if you hang around and read a bit, that the education is worth the price of admission, and that the civics taught here are no longer covered by the public school system.

As I learned here on OCDO: Laws are written to protect people with nothing to hide.

IanB said:

SNIP Regarding the OP of this thread, you guys got suckered into helping some student write a couple paragraphs for a college research paper or some other sort of troll.

Click to expand...

Nice to hear from you Ian. Don't see you around as much anymore.

I used to feel the same way. But, I modified my opinion a little when it occurred to me that such posts give everybody else a chance to hone their thinking and prose.

Still later it occurred to me there is a deep irony. A troll, if he is such, just gives the rest of the freedom-minded types a chance to promote liberty again for all the newest readers who are unfamiliar with the ideas and missed the earlier threads.

So, even if he is a troll, the freedom-supporters still win. And, the knuckleheaded trolls probably don't even realize it.