Why not just comply (with the police when they stop you and ask for ID)???

hi everyone,

im really curious about why some folks like to film the police and argue with them about giving them your ID and not allowing them to check your weapon?
i have been open carrying for only a small time now but i have not had one problem with the police or anyone else. i smile at others and act very polite and dress profesionally and i have not had any bad reactions. i am prepared to have the police called on me and i know i will act professional. if they want my ID? i have no problem giving them my ID. if they want to run the serial number on my sidearm? "please do" will be my response.
why not just comply??? but please, i am hear to learn about the community of open carriers. so correct me if need be.

915darling said:

hi everyone,

im really curious about why some folks like to film the police and argue with them about giving them your ID and not allowing them to check your weapon?
i have been open carrying for only a small time now but i have not had one problem with the police or anyone else. i smile at others and act very polite and dress profesionally and i have not had any bad reactions. i am prepared to have the police called on me and i know i will act professional. if they want my ID? i have no problem giving them my ID. if they want to run the serial number on my sidearm? "please do" will be my response.
why not just comply??? but please, i am hear to learn about the community of open carriers. so correct me if need be.

Thank you guys and gals

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You don't want to learn about the community from my reply to those questions...Darling!

"You don't want to learn about the community from my reply to those questions...Darling!"



LOL Great Answer

This question has been posted ad nauseam, and the answer as to Why you don't allow people to run roughshod over your rights has been posted at least as often.

Be a good puppy, roll over, pee on your stomach.... or be the top dog and have civil servants serve you, it's up to you.

"Fallschirmjäger"
"This question has been posted ad nauseam, and the answer as to Why you don't allow people to run roughshod over your rights has been posted at least as often."

"Be a good puppy, roll over, pee on your stomach.... or be the top dog and have civil servants serve you, it's up to you."




i actually really respect that answer. good way of looking at it. thanks for the insite.

I'll take a swing at it:

OP if you don't mind, who are, where do you live, what are the most valuable things you own and how much money do you have and what's your credit card info? I promise I just want to check it out and will never in the future attempt to deprive you of any of it. You trust me right?


BTW it's not unprecedented that governments have a database which they then abuse to deprive people of their belongings or even their freedom. Are you willing to risk that just for the sake of pleasing some stranger in a blue costume?

Darling, you ask "Why not comply?" and I respond with "Why should I?"

Really, it's a serious question. Why should I comply without good reason or just cause? IF I were involved in a situation that justified cooperating with the police, I will to the extent the law requires, all while remaining courteous, professional and calm. But I am not going to do whatever the man in blue wants me to do just because he says so, especially when I am engaged in a perfectly legal activity.

I believe it's sometimes referred to as "The Slippery Slope".

Sure, what they ask of you now may be easy, you really have nothing to hide, you've done nothing wrong.

"Can I see your ID?" Sure. "Can I have your Weapon? For officer safety, you see." Sure, no problem. "Mind if I come into your house an look around?" Uh, OK, sure. "I would like to look at your financial records, just to make sure." ummm... "Now miss Darling, you don't have anything to hide do you?" NO, Of course not! Here's my finances.

"Excellent! I need to see your e-mails from the past year." Why? "Well it's for officer safety you see." ?? Really? "Yes Ma'am." I see...

Entertaining right? The point is, at what point is enough enough? At what point do you resist and ask the officer what right he has to see these things? Many here will tell you that point is at the beginning. "Can I see your ID?"

If the Officer has no right, no RAS or PC that he can explain to you, then he has no need to see your ID for you engaging in a lawful activity. If what you are doing is illegal, then he can arrest you, THEN have your ID.

At which point the Officer is THEN subject to the law, and your Civil Rights. If, instead, you willfully give up your Rights, then you have willfully given up your Rights!!

There's no problem as long as there's no problem. But if someone doesn't like you for some reason, whether now or in the future (keep in mind that the criteria for social acceptability change over time and they will "get" you tomorrow for something that you did "innocently" today), then you'll be in deep kimchee at some point. The only way around it is to keep the agents of the state grounded and fettered. When you stop insisting that your rights and dignity as a citizen be respected, you lose 'em both.

I smell a troll. When I joined up on OCDO, I spent hours reading the previous posts and topics and already had an inclination of an answer to that question 915darling poses. On top of the "gov" tagline for occupation, and the way the questioned was framed to illicit a backlash from the forum regulars, I wouldn't waste much time responding.

915darling said:

hi everyone,

im really curious about why some folks like to film the police and argue with them about giving them your ID and not allowing them to check your weapon?
i have been open carrying for only a small time now but i have not had one problem with the police or anyone else. i smile at others and act very polite and dress profesionally and i have not had any bad reactions. i am prepared to have the police called on me and i know i will act professional. if they want my ID? i have no problem giving them my ID. if they want to run the serial number on my sidearm? "please do" will be my response.
why not just comply??? but please, i am hear to learn about the community of open carriers. so correct me if need be.

Thank you guys and gals

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How about learning capitalization?

915darling said:

hi everyone,

im really curious about why some folks like to film the police and argue with them about giving them your ID and not allowing them to check your weapon?
i have been open carrying for only a small time now but i have not had one problem with the police or anyone else. i smile at others and act very polite and dress professionally and i have not had any bad reactions. i am prepared to have the police called on me and i know i will act professional. if they want my ID? i have no problem giving them my ID. if they want to run the serial number on my sidearm? "please do" will be my response.
why not just comply??? but please, i am hear to learn about the community of open carriers. so correct me if need be.

Thank you guys and gals

Click to expand...

It's the police who are arguing. Why stop a guy walking his dog just because he's engaged in a legal and Constitutionally protected right?

Run your serial number - take your gun? What's the cause for doing this since you're (presumably) not breaking the law. You're teaching them that their non-legal conduct
is appropriate.

Do you have a recorder on you running when you OC? Why not? What if a citizen confronts you and calls you in as brandishing - you have literally no defense.

You are just a noob and naive. Keep OC-ing and you'll learn why people object to being cuffed and stuffed when doing a legal activity.

TraumaRN said:

I smell a troll. When I joined up on OCDO, I spent hours reading the previous posts and topics and already had an inclination of an answer to that question 915darling poses. On top of the "gov" tagline for occupation, and the way the questioned was framed to illicit a backlash from the forum regulars, I wouldn't waste much time responding.

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Yep!

"Fallschirmjäger"
"This question has been posted ad nauseam, and the answer as to Why you don't allow people to run roughshod over your rights has been posted at least as often."

"Be a good puppy, roll over, pee on your stomach.... or be the top dog and have civil servants serve you, it's up to you."

Click to expand...

915darling said:

I actually really respect that answer. good way of looking at it. thanks for the insight.

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It was a crass and brutish answer; but it was framed that way to make it clear what the stakes are.
There are rules that all members of the public must follow, and the police are only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent upon every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence. That being the case, would you allow any other citizen to seize your person without cause or warrant? Allow anyone else to seize your property without cause? To seize your papers without cause?

Think for a moment, why there is a Fourth Amendment that protects you from such actions. What use is the 4th Amendment to someone who is innocent and has nothing to fear? Find your answer for that, remembering the climate of the time that the 4th Amendment was written, and you have your answer as to why it's there, who it protects, and from whom it protects the citizen.

I think if every LEO was pure and innocent and just mistaken during 'stop and ID' and 'warrentless searches', or misinformed, then it wouldn't be a problem to show them ID. But they're not. In fact, I'd say almost all stop and IDs are LEOs searching for a reason to 'do their job' (i.e. arrest someone) and try to get the person to incriminate themselves, or resist or disrespect the cop. It's due to them wanting to be elite and not liking that law abiding citizens are ALSO allowed by law and by the Constitution to open carry a firearm, add to that a bit of testosterone poisoning, or with female LEOs also a misplaced sense of entitlement (one female LEO admitted she was initially outraged to see a citizen given the right she was jealously guarding (carrying a firearm)).

Also remember that running your serial is not without problem. For one thing it involves them handling your (an unfamiliar) firearm, probably sweeping you or someone in the process.

Like I said you just don't know how a problem can occur, and letting un-lawful actions take place can put you in danger.

915darling said:

if they want my ID? i have no problem giving them my ID. if they want to run the serial number on my sidearm? "please do" will be my response.
why not just comply???

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PLEASE DO! lol, please, please, PLEASE DO violate the constitution, it's MY pleasure officer!

Why not just comply? Because lot's of good men died fighting a revolution against a tynranical government so they could live in a more free society, one that ended up developing a bill of rights a few years later to make sure government couldn't just hop into your life for no reason. Lot's of good people died fighting others who had plans for world domination, eventually coming to the U.S. and ultimately taking your rights. Lots of people died for this idea of freedom, or at least a more free society.

^ So who the hell are we to just surrender those rights? What a slap in the face to our founding fathers who put it all on the line to declare independance from tyranny and eventually make the bill of rights, ultimately committing treason. What a slap in the face to the revolutionaries who died fighting the red coats. What a slap in the face to the soldiers who died fighting the nazi's in WWII.

Lot's of men died so that you'd have the right to live free from government obstruction so long as you don't effect anyone else's life, liberty, or persuit of happiness- and what do you say to the government getting into your way for no reason? PLEASE DO


I'm Schlitz, and I support this message.


EDIT: On a different note, what about that guy who showed ID in california and the cops let him go? The one where the cops came out later and measured to find that he was in a school zone. They had his information from earlier and were able to charge him with a crime. yea that guy.... < all for cooperating (searching for a link)

This question brings to mind a quote from one of the founding fathers, who said something about "may your chains lay light upon your back as you lick the heels of the tyrants, and may we forget that you were our fellow countryman."

Sam Adams

Old Virginia Joe said:

This question brings to mind a quote from one of the founding fathers, who said something about "may your chains lay light upon your back as you lick the heels of the tyrants, and may we forget that you were our fellow countryman."

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"If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." — Samuel Adams

AtackDuck said:

"If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." — Samuel Adams

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yes, that's it! Thanks!

OP I suggest you watch this:

[video=youtube;TbNIU2KEz4g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbNIU2KEz4g[/video]