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Thread: CCW in a School Zone

  1. #1
    Regular Member Makarov's Avatar
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    CCW in a School Zone

    My Girlfriend has a CCW and walks her child to and from school everyday armed. She has been doing this for a few months and then one day the cops arrive at the house. According to Dayton PD, she can not carry in a school zone. It was pointed out to the officers at the time of the call that it is completely legal. They werent interested and said she wold be jail if it happened again.

    Action is now delivered to the school board and the supervisor of the principal with a letter below.


    Sir/Ma-am,

    I would like to report the following incident to the school board concerning the principal of the wright Brothers School at Grant. A mother was walking her daughter home from school as she usually does. Within a half hour of arriving home, three Dayton Police cruisers showed up along with officers were knocking at her door. She didn’t do anything wrong but obeying the law. It seems by the reports from the police officers, the principal of the school, Wright Brothers School at Grant, called them and informed them that this mother had a gun. She did because she has a license to carry concealed weapon or what is know as CCW license.

    In the state of Ohio it is legal for a person with a license to carry a handgun concealed to carry that gun within a school zone as long as they do not go into the building or they are on school property. School property stops at the side walk. That is . In addition they are allowed to carry in their vehicle while on school property to pick up their kids as long as they are not participating in a school functions. This clearly state in ORC 2923.122 as highlighted below section D(3) and (4). Click on this hyperlink to see the entire law….http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.122.

    This parent will continue to participate IN OBEYING THE LAW. If this principal persists in harassing this person by calling the police, legal action will follow shortly, along with public awareness through news sources.

    Please educate this principal on the law and the consequences that will follow.

    Thanks you for your consideration in this manner. Please follow up with an email to myself explaining the action the school board has taken.
    Last edited by Makarov; 11-07-2011 at 10:17 AM.

  2. #2
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    So she didn't actually set foot on school property?

  3. #3
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    I hate to be critical, but your letter is disjointed and really sends a message of your inability to clearly communicate.

    What about the cops? What story were they told by the complainant?

  4. #4
    Regular Member Makarov's Avatar
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    I beg your pardon, the letter communicates effectively the point. Anyway...back to your question.

    The cops were told there was a suspicious item under my girlfriend’s shirt and that’s why they were call. When they appeared at the house, they asked my girl friend if she owned a gun and if she was wearing it at the school? She replied yes to both questions. Then she replied she had a CCW and it was legal to carry in a school zone on the side walk. They advised her not to carry there anymore or she would be arrested. I wasn't there so this information is second hand and fuzzy but If I was there, I would have taken a slower approach by asking them question before answering their but she was scared and this was her first encounter with the law. At the end, they just gave her a warning.

    Throughout the week, I made several attempts trying contacting the second district police dept. Finally after two weeks the commander phones me. We had a great discussion of the ORC governing this issue. He is in agreement with me but suggests that my girl friend should carry across the street to avoid any hassles.
    Last edited by Makarov; 12-07-2011 at 01:31 PM.

  5. #5
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makarov View Post
    I beg to pardon, the letter communicates effectively the point. Anyway...back to your question...
    Pardon me, but the phrase is "I beg your pardon" not "I beg to pardon."

    Also it's "Ma'am" NOT 'Ma-am."

    You stated that: "He is in agreement with me but suggests that my girl friend should carry across the street to avoid any hassles." The officer told you, as well as your girlfriend, not to exercise your rights. Because if you do you will be harassed.

    Good luck and have a nice day.

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    Regular Member Dashlol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    Pardon me, but the phrase is "I beg your pardon" not "I beg to pardon."

    Also it's "Ma'am" NOT 'Ma-am."

    You stated that: "He is in agreement with me but suggests that my girl friend should carry across the street to avoid any hassles." The officer told you, as well as your girlfriend, not to exercise your rights. Because if you do you will be harassed.

    Good luck and have a nice day.
    You might hold a degree as an English major but I find your bashing of the OP'r inappropriate. She may CCW ANYWHERE unless its post otherwise. If the school has a no firearms sign then she may not carry. If she is not the property then she is fully within her rights. I suggest sending a copy of Ohio's firearms laws to the school with a latter that explains they need to learn something because ignorance breeds ignorance.

  7. #7
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dashlol View Post
    You might hold a degree as an English major but I find your bashing of the OP'r inappropriate. She may CCW ANYWHERE unless its post otherwise. If the school has a no firearms sign then she may not carry. If she is not the property then she is fully within her rights. I suggest sending a copy of Ohio's firearms laws to the school with a latter that explains they need to learn something because ignorance breeds ignorance.
    The pot calling the kettle black? Numerous errors are apparent above.

    Do not see that any bashing occurred, rather an effort to make the correspondence more professional.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Dashlol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    The pot calling the kettle black? Numerous errors are apparent above.

    Do not see that any bashing occurred, rather an effort to make the correspondence more professional.
    I am not even going to pay attention to what you said. You completely failed to jest my point that spelling and grammar are not as important on a GUN FORUM than accurate advice. I have put enough time in school and college to not really care about using correct grammar and spelling on my leisure time. Though I am Military Police I am simply saying that the OP just needed some guidance on his topic not to be scrutinized by people for playing different with words.

    to the OP
    http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.122 Ohios laws for weapons in schools and on school zones. READ ALL OF IT. If your girlfriend is not on school property then she is fine but the minute she enters it she is committing a felony.

    I am done with this thread seeing that people would rather poke at people with personal attacks than answer questions. You people only add more problems to our cause.

    United States Navy, Master At Arms.
    DP

  9. #9
    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    We have grammar police?

    The essence of what's being posted should be what matters.
    Last edited by MilProGuy; 11-23-2011 at 10:26 PM.
    Proud Veteran ~ U.S. Army / Army Reserve

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  10. #10
    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dashlol View Post
    ...I find your bashing of the OP'r inappropriate.
    I agree with you.

    It is quite inappropriate, and...immaterial to the discussion.
    Proud Veteran ~ U.S. Army / Army Reserve

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  11. #11
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MilProGuy View Post
    We have grammar police?

    The essence of what's being posted should be what matters.
    Quote Originally Posted by MilProGuy View Post
    I agree with you.

    It is quite inappropriate, and...immaterial to the discussion.
    I would agree with you to some degree if the only question/issue were posting on OCDO.
    However that was not the case here.

    It behooves anyone sending correspondence to someone in an official capacity to be correct in form and material. They will likely be taken more seriously if they are at least within the guidelines of good grammar and accepted format.

    Many here submit their letters for review before sending them just for that reason.
    They realize that their style not only reflects on them, but the impact of their message has.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Dashlol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    I would agree with you to some degree if the only question/issue were posting on OCDO.
    However that was not the case here.

    It behooves anyone sending correspondence to someone in an official capacity to be correct in form and material. They will likely be taken more seriously if they are at least within the guidelines of good grammar and accepted format.

    Many here submit their letters for review before sending them just for that reason.
    They realize that their style not only reflects on them, but the impact of their message has.
    Thank you for informing us and the internet you judge a book by its cover.

  13. #13
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Grapeshot

    I would agree with you to some degree if the only question/issue were posting on OCDO.
    However that was not the case here.

    It behooves anyone sending correspondence to someone in an official capacity to be correct in form and material. They will likely be taken more seriously if they are at least within the guidelines of good grammar and accepted format.

    Many here submit their letters for review before sending them just for that reason.
    They realize that their style not only reflects on them, but the impact of their message has.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dashlol View Post
    Thank you for informing us and the internet you judge a book by its cover.
    I beg your pardon!

    I did not judge anyone and frankly find your comment quite insulting, sir.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  14. #14
    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Makarov,

    If you would like help refining the letter a bit send me a PM and I would be happy to help. I have done so for a couple of forum members.

    Either way, good luck and keep us updated.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

  15. #15
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    Makarov:

    Not being an expert on OH law, I will defer to your understanding of it and assume that you are correct. With that assumption, I want to congratulate you on how you chose to handle the situation. Even though your letter may have been more polished, you communicated very clearly your case. If the school persists in the harassment, go get 'em!

    I do see some of the comments in this thread as being overly critical of your language skills and wish that others had focused more on the content, with no more than a passing comment on your grammar and usage. Perhaps those who have more finely honed language skills should offer to help you author future correspondence rather than so harshly ignore the point of your post.

    Kudos to you for fighting for the Rights of others. Keep us posted on the school's reaction. The correct reaction would be something along the lines of, "Thank you for informing us of the law in this matter. We have researched it and will, in the future, properly respect family members' right to carry." We can probably expect retrenchment.

    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    Makarov,

    If you would like help refining the letter a bit send me a PM and I would be happy to help. I have done so for a couple of forum members.

    Either way, good luck and keep us updated.
    On edit: The above post is a timely example of what I suggested. Thanks.
    Last edited by eye95; 12-01-2011 at 01:36 PM.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    On a side issue:

    1. Why did your friend answer the door when the cops knocked? She did not commit a crime therefore had no need to do so;
    2. Why did your friend answer their (fishing expedition) questions? She had no obligation to do so and should have said 'call my lawyer and he will handle any questions'.

    That would have kept them from threatening her incorrectly. Cops like to use intimidation but it doesn't work on (most) lawyers.

    DO NOT TALK TO THE COPS - certainly not if they just show up at your door with no RAS.

    HTH
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    Hi, I'm hypercritical. But I mean no harm, I just like to try to look deeply at life

  17. #17
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    There is nothing better than the gun community promoting mediocrity. And even defending it. My experience on these gun forums is if you ask for help many will step forward and fulfill the request.

    In this case someone with no experience decides to build a boat and then runs out and tells everybody to look at the great boat he built. When those with experience point out that the boat has a big hole in its bottom and it's going to sink the inexperienced boat builder cries because be is not praised for his mediocre performance.

    And the worst part is that others come running to his defense.

  18. #18
    Regular Member ncwabbit's Avatar
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    mediocre is in the eyes of the beholder...

    i agree w/thebigsd...the OP's communication articulates the point to those who have the ability to change...

    milady, you bring up some excellent points in the off chance this or any individual is in a similar situation, tip of the hat to ya for the information it is appreciated.

    i am constantly amazed with the sensitivity of those that moderate...they themselves swoop down and moderate based on their perceiption of life and the infamous 'rules' and when anybody snips back...they are offended and rant and rave over the injustice of it all. guess what is good for the goose isn't applicable to the gander...eh!!

    wabbit

  19. #19
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncwabbit View Post
    ....snip.....

    i am constantly amazed with the sensitivity of those that moderate...they themselves swoop down and moderate based on their perceiption of life and the infamous 'rules' and when anybody snips back...they are offended and rant and rave over the injustice of it all. guess what is good for the goose isn't applicable to the gander...eh!!

    wabbit
    No sir not sensitivity - the word is consistency. I am the same today as I was yesterday as I will be tomorrow.

    Users here are first charged with self-moderation. Those of us that do it officially try to take a soft approach, leading, directing and suggesting before applying a higher standard. Frankly, I prefer to be just one of the guys. Those that have been here a while quickly recognize the difference and afford me that luxury.

    In that this is not your first attempt at public dissension with the methods employed , I will point out that you are going one bridge to far with this. Your words indicate a negative bias and disregard for good order and productivity - "infamous rules" indeed. The price of admission here is made quite clear in the opening statement to those very Rules - you irrevocably accept them by posting here. You should reread them and adjust accordingly to your own benefit. Trust me, there is nothing to be gained by your present approach.

    BTW - I don't judge a book by its cover, but by the words within. Future such public attacks will be dealt with differently. Do you really need to "see" the other tools at my disposal?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  20. #20
    Regular Member ncwabbit's Avatar
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    --Edited by Moderator--
    This continues the open dissension and carries this thread further OT.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Makarov's Avatar
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    Thanks for everyone’s input on this matter. The child mentioned in this story has transferred schools, so this issue has really become a mute point. The real issue though is the language of this law. The language should be changed to reflect clarity that will leave no doubt in anyone’s mind what it says. So let’s use this as a learning experience and notify our state reps to change this law for the better.

    New Law proposal: Anyone with a license to carry a concealed weapon is exempt from 18 U.S.C. 922: US Code - Section 922: Unlawful acts and ORC 2923.122 Illegal conveyance or possession of deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance or of object indistinguishable from firearm in school safety zone.

    A person with a license to carry a concealed weapon may enter school zones, buildings, day care centers and all related school owned property. Any attempt to prevent a licensed person from exercising this right, that person or person(s)will be guilty of a felony in the 4th degree.

    I think this says it all!
    Last edited by Makarov; 12-07-2011 at 01:33 PM.

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