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Thread: power loss from snow

  1. #1
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    power loss from snow

    I just got my pwoer turned back on.. YAY!!! They turned all power off in my town at 10:30 am sunday even though my power worked fine they decided to shut the whole town off. I don't understand how this state failed so badly at preparing for this storm as they had notice and did absolutely nothing with it. Right now is the first time my house has been warmer than 60 degrees since mid day sunday.

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    Did they declare martial law and round up all the guns?

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    not yet. its just worrisome that some people will be without power for 8 days or more. It has been 5 days since the storm and there are still 250,000 people without power. Last night on the news the governor said that more maintence was left undone to the power lines and trees because the last governor wouldnt approve the increases in fee for the power company they wanted. To me thats just disgusting.

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokeyburnout View Post
    Last night on the news the governor said that more maintence was left undone to the power lines and trees because the last governor wouldnt approve the increases in fee for the power company they wanted. To me thats just disgusting.
    People cannot (but always seem to anyway) blame the power companies when they have their hands tied by government meddling.

    Everyone cries to the government to cap prices when they see their rates go up, but then when something happens they complain that the utilities are not making sufficient investments into 'infrastructure'.

    How about we try something revolutionary and allow the free market to regulate itself and get all government interference out of businesses like these?

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    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    Connecticut. Snow? Well, no wonder...uh, isn't that in Canada
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    Cell Phone credits if you ask

    I have sprint and when I called they told me that they are issuing credits to those who ask.

    They call is reaction credits.

    I have been on ROAM mode on the Verison network and some of the functions on my Sprint phone don't work in ROAM mode.

    Call and get your credits.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    People cannot (but always seem to anyway) blame the power companies when they have their hands tied by government meddling.

    Everyone cries to the government to cap prices when they see their rates go up, but then when something happens they complain that the utilities are not making sufficient investments into 'infrastructure'.

    How about we try something revolutionary and allow the free market to regulate itself and get all government interference out of businesses like these?


    I agree with free market but when there is no free market and the only choice you have is CL&P or UI (Which are both the same company) they need to take some responsibility. I have never seen the power company out trimming trees that are too close to power lines. In fact I have a tree across the street from my house with huge branches that are directly above the power lines. People are annoyed and angered because a rate increase was approved and seemingly nothing was done. The power company claimed they made preparations for this storm days in advance and in actuallity did not. All they did was "gather together 200 crews". In this entire week I have only seen 2 CL&P trucks. Seems unrealistic for there to be that many crews working and only see 2 trucks in a week when during a normal week I trypically see 5+ wondering around.

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokeyburnout View Post
    I agree with free market but when there is no free market and the only choice you have is CL&P or UI (Which are both the same company) they need to take some responsibility. I have never seen the power company out trimming trees that are too close to power lines. In fact I have a tree across the street from my house with huge branches that are directly above the power lines. People are annoyed and angered because a rate increase was approved and seemingly nothing was done. The power company claimed they made preparations for this storm days in advance and in actuallity did not. All they did was "gather together 200 crews". In this entire week I have only seen 2 CL&P trucks. Seems unrealistic for there to be that many crews working and only see 2 trucks in a week when during a normal week I trypically see 5+ wondering around.
    You are missing the truth to the situation.

    The power companies are restricted to price increases that the state approves of. The state consistently turns them down for routine rate increases due to inflation, cost of generation, etc. So to make ends meet, they don't fix infrastructure and they don't hire on more crews. The have a fixed revenue, they operate within it.

    You say they got a rate increase and 'nothing was done', but we both know that is not true. The rate increase was so that they could recoup their clean up costs from Irene.

    You see, that is how our state has 'fixed' things for us. The company has to let the disaster happen, clean it up, and then ask for a rate increase to clean it up.

    Blame the state that won't allow the free market to regulate prices. Blame the people who cry about 'rate increases' and expect the government to over regulate the utilities.

    And don't forget to thank the people who are allowing their trees to grow into and over power lines. That is not CL&P's fault. That is not the state's job. Perhaps CL&P should be billing the people who own the property who did not maintain their trees?

    And at the end, there will always be things that CL&P can do better. They will figure that out. They will improve what they can. After all, all those homes without power? They aren't making money on them. They have the motivation to fix things, not the state.

    Business should run business. Not the state. Not statists.
    Last edited by Rich B; 11-04-2011 at 08:19 PM.

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    I don't understand why anyone would live north of the Maryland and not have some sort of grid-free source of heat. It's not that common for snow to cause power outages around here (northeast TN), but I'm still pretty thankful that the place I'm renting has gas logs, because it DOES happen about once every other year. If I didn't I'd probably be investing in a kerosene or propane heater.

    But to live anywhere in New England and be completely dependant upon electricity? Aren't power outages up north a pretty common occurrence these days? The electrical grid has only been modestly upgraded in the US since the mid 1900s while the population (and therefore demand) has risen sharply. Common blackouts aren't surprising.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    You are missing the truth to the situation.

    The power companies are restricted to price increases that the state approves of. The state consistently turns them down for routine rate increases due to inflation, cost of generation, etc. So to make ends meet, they don't fix infrastructure and they don't hire on more crews. The have a fixed revenue, they operate within it.

    You say they got a rate increase and 'nothing was done', but we both know that is not true. The rate increase was so that they could recoup their clean up costs from Irene.

    You see, that is how our state has 'fixed' things for us. The company has to let the disaster happen, clean it up, and then ask for a rate increase to clean it up.

    Blame the state that won't allow the free market to regulate prices. Blame the people who cry about 'rate increases' and expect the government to over regulate the utilities.

    And don't forget to thank the people who are allowing their trees to grow into and over power lines. That is not CL&P's fault. That is not the state's job. Perhaps CL&P should be billing the people who own the property who did not maintain their trees?

    And at the end, there will always be things that CL&P can do better. They will figure that out. They will improve what they can. After all, all those homes without power? They aren't making money on them. They have the motivation to fix things, not the state.

    Business should run business. Not the state. Not statists.
    I think your missing my point. There are no power companys to choose from. CL&P and UI are both the same company. CL&P is a branch from UI. You may be able to use different companys as your biller but all power comes from one company and that one company is the one that maintains the lines.
    Put it like this. A pizza restaraunt fails to maintain their oven and it breaks down. The pizza restaraunt won't charge you $80 for a pizza because they need money to fix what broke. It is a part of business where you must maintain what it is that makes you money. CL&P does basicly nothing to maintain their infrastructure and instead reacts when things go wrong. They just sit back and collect their money. It only costs the power company tons of cash to repair failures because they havent done maintence basicly ever. If over the years they did trim trees and maintained their equipment better it would be a lot less money spread over a long time that would keep their customers happy. Thats the funny thing about preventitive maintence, it prevents large scale problems from occuring.

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    Regular Member Freiheit417's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post

    Business should run business. Not the state. Not statists.

    Amen to that!
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    *Freedom subject to change depending on jurisdiction and availability. Some freedoms may not be available due to local political expedience or prevailing political correctness. Please check Federal, State, County, City, or any other special district for applicable laws governing the extents of freedoms prior to purchase.

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokeyburnout View Post
    I think your missing my point. There are no power companys to choose from. CL&P and UI are both the same company. CL&P is a branch from UI. You may be able to use different companys as your biller but all power comes from one company and that one company is the one that maintains the lines.
    I understand your point. But I am trying to explain to you why this problem exists and what isn't going to fix the problem.


    Put it like this. A pizza restaraunt fails to maintain their oven and it breaks down. The pizza restaraunt won't charge you $80 for a pizza because they need money to fix what broke.
    Of course it will. Every bit of their overhead is built into the price of everything they sell.

    CL&P does basicly nothing to maintain their infrastructure and instead reacts when things go wrong. They just sit back and collect their money. It only costs the power company tons of cash to repair failures because they havent done maintence basicly ever. If over the years they did trim trees and maintained their equipment better it would be a lot less money spread over a long time that would keep their customers happy. Thats the funny thing about preventitive maintence, it prevents large scale problems from occuring.
    See, this is where you are having trouble understanding. I don't think you are actually reading what I am writing, but instead you are simply repeating the same thing over and over.

    Lets use your pizza analogy.

    You own a pizzeria. You get to charge whatever you want for your pizzas (as you should) and your customers get to choose either to pay for your pizza or not to pay for your pizza. So your decision in what to charge for your pizza already has real world limits and checks built into the market for pizza in your locality. For instance, you know:

    - Similar pizza in your area is going for an average price of $9 for a small cheese pizza.
    - You expect to sell an average of 100 pizzas a day.
    - You have $700 per day in overhead.

    With that kind of rudimentary accounting, you know you will have roughly $200 per day in profit.

    Maintenance, repairs, sudden costs need to be factored into that overhead and you must adjust your price to make sure you are always making money and not losing money.

    Now, lets say that the citizens of our fine state start to complain that $9 is far too much to pay for a pizza. They insist the state 'fixes' this egregious injustice. The state now makes a law that puts a 'Department of Cheesy Saucy Circles' (DCSC) together. DCSC is charged with regulating the prices of pizza. They make a policy that every small cheese pizza in the state should cost $6. They don't do anything to actually change the cost with producing the pizza. In fact, the United Pizza Dough Spinning Union (UPDSU) has lobbied the state successfully and your pizza dough spinners are now making 20% more than what they were making last year and you are now required to provide them all 2 weeks sick time where they had 1 week previously.

    Your overhead is now $800 per day, and you (luckily) still sell the same amount of pizza per day. Things are much more difficult now. You only have $100 per day in profit now.

    Many competitors die off because they cannot hang on. Their pizza ovens need serious overhaul, but they were not able to afford to upgrade them. They might have chosen to get the new Super Duty pizza ovens on a loan, but they would not have been able to convince the DCSC that their better, more delicious pizzas would have sold better and would have been worth more to their customers justifying pricing their pizza at $8 per pizza. The DCSC claims they know what the customers want more than the pizzerias though. Your prices must stay at the 'fair' price of $6.

    Before long, you have no competitors. You are the only pizzeria in the state. You do not know how you held in this long. You actually wish you had some competition, because there is a line out the door and around the block at all hours for your pizza. You have hired on twice as many workers, you have streamlined your pizza production as much as possible. But your single, simple pizza oven that was designed to push out 100 pizzas per day is now pushing out 600 pizzas per day. You are working very long hours, and you have had to insist that your employees work as many hours as possible as well. The UPDSU is now pushing you harder and threatening strikes. But you know your customers cannot live without their pizza. So you give into their constant demands. You have had to hire off duty police to manage the unruly mobs of people who are angry because of your now poor customer service.

    Your overhead is now $2400 per day. You are bringing in $3600 per day in revenue. You make investments where you can, but to upgrade your pizza ovens and facilities to make more pizzas and better pizzas with better customer service, it would cost you millions of dollars. You need a building, a dozen super duty pizza ovens, you need enough staff to handle this volume, and you need a full pizza oven maintenance crew to cover these ovens. You are sure your customers would be willing to pay the $8 per small cheese pizza that it would take to upgrade so that you could provide them hot, steamy, melty pizza that is gourmet and not at all rushed, but just right. You know that your customers hate to wait in what has turned into a line that rivals the Soviet-era bread lines.

    You have done research and you know that every day you lose at least 50% of your potential customers because they get frustrated and walk away from the hours long wait. You know you can keep your overhead to about $7500, but supply twice as many pizzas, twice as fast and put smiles on the faces of all of your customers. So you go to the DCSC. You tell them you need to raise the price of your pizza. The DCSC says that they know the only fair price for a pizza is $6. The customers would have a fit to pay more for their pizza, they say. So you continue on.

    Soon, your pizza oven fails in a spectacular way. You are going to have to invest in a new Super Duty oven. But you know that the cost of the oven over the next few years is going to be too much in your overhead. You will either have to shut your pizza place down or you will have to get a higher pizza price. You once again go to the DCSC. You tell them your story. The DCSC knows they will be the focus of a lot of consumer rage when the only pizzeria in CT shuts its doors. They agree to give you an increase. You are now able to charge $7 per small cheese pizza. You buy your new oven and you can now get by, but with a much smaller profit margin.



    What have you learned as a pizzeria?
    Last edited by Rich B; 11-07-2011 at 10:16 AM.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    What is the chance that service interruptions caused by the provider can be prorated off the bill?
    What do you mean? If they cannot deliver you power, how are they going to charge you for it in the first place? You pay only for what you use, measured at your meter.

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Some utilities use a 'averaging' system to predict what to charge you between meter readings, IF a fella has to actually go around and read meters. In fact, many meters are still read by a person periodically, where smaller utilities and Co-Ops are concerned.

    OT: Smart Meters eliminate another job yet provide real-time monitoring so that you only pay for what you use. Well, that's the story anyway.

    That's all I was getting at....Google it.
    I am aware of such systems, but I have not heard of anyone who has been charged for power consumed when there was no power. If there was, this would clearly be something that would not hold up.

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