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Thread: PTs

  1. #1
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    PTs

    So about a year or so I posted about getting asked to leave a PTs. In a nutshell, director of ops and assistant director of ops called me back after my complaint, offered their sincere apology, invited me back and offered to comp me dinner. Year goes by, no problems at PTs all over the city, but last week I got asked to leave one again, just simply for being armed. So I tried calling both the dir and ass. dir, left messages, and haven't heard anything back. I tried calling again today, got terrible phone service, put on hold, and blind transferred to voice mails when I expected to be talking to a person.

    So just wondering if any of you felt like chiming in, 702-798-0091. todd parmelee is director, tom coleman assistant director.


    This was at the PTs on decatur and hacienda, bartender Joe approached me while at the juke box picking out music and asked me why I was armed. I told him I'm always armed when I come here (I eat there maybe twice a month, and the guy has seen mere there plenty). Funny enough, after getting asked to leave, we (my date and I) went to the PTs on decatur and sunset, and nobody said a thing. I wasn't going to bother posting this experience here if they had called me back and sorted this out, but they didn't - so thought if they heard from a few more unhappy patrons it might get them more involved this time around.

  2. #2
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    Well, it's been over a month, I submitted another letter to them today on their website, and got a call from their directors, and this time they had a very different tone. They said that in all PTs they would not allow firearms. They said they don't do pat downs, implying they were ok with the right to defend oneself, but when I asked them if they were ok with concealed carry , they said no. That's a bit confusing, because last year it was the complete opposite, and for the last year I've been open carrying at PTs all over about once a week. This particular one, this one particular time (the bar tender when I asked him why now said he never saw it before) has now changed their minds, and I for one will not be giving my money to them and encourage you all to do the same. They gave me a line about how upset guests have been, and I asked in the last year, how many complaints they had about me, and they said that they don't often hear complaints from guests at their level in the company. So basically, they're like many of the anti-gun people who 'know' all these things, but when asked for evidence, have none. I was trying to be polite, and courteous, but after asking them several questions about their policies, if things had changed since our talk 1 year ago, they got angry and sarcastic with me. So upsetting... So please visit their website, send them a letter, or call them and leave a message if you're on my side. Hope to see some replies here. I'm sorely disappointed by their decision this time around, and will be looking for a new late night dinner place.

  3. #3
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    know the URL to the website, we do not

    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

  4. #4
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    http://ptstaverns.com/
    contact us - http://www.goldengaminginc.com/contact

    wasn't sure if posting links was against somethin on the forum...

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    2A
    Last edited by OC-moto450r; 08-02-2012 at 08:28 PM.

  6. #6
    Regular Member The Big Guy's Avatar
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    Just sent a little love note to them.

    TBG
    Life member GOA and NRA. Member of SAF, NAGR, TXGR and Cast Bullet Assoc.

  7. #7
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    Thanks TBG, was actually really hoping to hear from you too, thanks a ton for at least one more voice out there. =)

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    Sent and done as well. We shall see.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegassteve View Post
    Sent and done as well. We shall see.
    thanks very much

  10. #10
    Regular Member Remmy's Avatar
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    I too have just written them a short letter advising I will no longer spend any money, nor recommend their establishment to anyone I know or come in contact with. I have personally spent thousands of dollars at PTs and am outraged by this response to deny our rights as law abiding citizens to bear arms and protect ourselves.

  11. #11
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    Thanks remmy. I know I don't spend all that much money, but I was buying dinner for myself maybe every 2 weeks...the past year. That's gotta add up right? I hope they come to realise they made a mistake

  12. #12
    Regular Member Remmy's Avatar
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    So I got a reply,

    Dear Mr. Green,

    My name is Todd Parmelee, Vice President of Operations for Golden Tavern Group. I first want to thank you for taking the time to express your sentiments and insight towards a subject that is important to you, as this item is important to us.

    I really think I can express the situation very quickly and hope that you have the correct information to make a decision whether to remain a loyal guest or not. In no way did anyone from this company establish that we would "deny service" to any individual that carried a concealed firearm. There has been multiple incidents where your colleague made our guests and team members very uncomfortable because he is "parading" around with his firearm in view for everyone to see.

    You expressed it yourself that you visit our taverns "mostly unarmed due to wanting to enjoy some alcoholic beverages". I truly believe that a tavern/bar atmosphere is a dangerous place to visibly showcase a firearm. We have an obligation to protect and create a safe working environment for all of our team members and create a safe environment for all of our guests. Golden Tavern Group has many Executives and team members that carry firearms and we even held a Firearms Safety Class, at our Home Office, last month, hosted by Kevin Tuttle and we have a great relationship with American Shooters, located on Arville.

    To get to my point, we are supportive of the rights of every American and Nevada citizen. It's when one or many individuals deviate from the rights and the rights of others, in our taverns, that we have to react to.

    I look forward to your response and again, we value your remarks and your patronage of our taverns.

    Sincerely,

    TODD PARMELEE
    VICE PRESIDENT OF OPERATIONS



    GOLDEN TAVERN GROUP
    A GOLDEN GAMING COMPANY
    6595 S JONES BLVD LAS VEGAS NV 89118
    T 702 891-4283 F 702 495-4333
    Last edited by Remmy; 12-08-2011 at 08:38 PM.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Remmy's Avatar
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    here is my retort

    Mr Parmelee,

    Let me start by first thanking you for the time spent in responding to my email. I am pleased to hear you will not deny service to those that choose to carry concealed firearms Let me clear up a few issues I see here that were lost in translation or not communicated clearly enough on my part. First off about open carry, and the misconstrued fact that we are parading around as I carry openly 100% of the time because I have simply not gotten my CCW here in Nevada, Myself as well as everyone of us that do open carry do so to simply protect our selves. We are not carrying a firearm in the open so we can gain attention or want to parade around with a look at me attitude. Some of us have no choice but to open carry as that would be the only legal way to freely carry a self defense tool such as a side arm. Secondly, I often drink to the level that my Blood Alcohol level is above .08 which exceeds the legal amount your can be at and carry a side arm, or drive a vehicle for that matter. That is the sole reason when I plan to drink above that legal limit I do not carry, however I have been to several PT's for a quick drink and dinner maintaining the legal limit on many occasions. It is often misconstrued that people run scared and frightened because we choose to arm ourselves in the face of self protection. I am truly sorry for those people that feel my personal safety is a bother to them and makes them uncomfortable. The fact that they choose to roll the dice on entering gun free zones with no protection for them selves makes me feel uncomfortable to say the least. Those same people are at competitors such as rounders, Bilbos, magoos, roadrunner, Deans Place, all of which follow state law and openly welcome our business and often thank us for being armed as well and when they are told by management that what we are doing is completely legal and welcomed they go about their business.

    The comfort level of someone is their own issue as is mine for wanting to be secure in my person, property, and freedoms. Comfort levels are mute and rare at best as I have frequented many establishments of business, and normal activities such as grocery shopping, pumping my gas, renting a movie, going to the mall. all places that are proven by history to be places which you are more likely to be in danger then anything. The issue is hand here is that we will be denied service, and to enjoy your establishment if we choose to openly carry fire arms for personal protection. something that is not only legal to do here in Nevada, but our constitutional right to do as American Citizens.

    We as people that choose to openly carry fire arms have done more for the community of Las Vegas, North Las Vegas, Henderson, and Boulder Highway then any group i have seen active. We are protecting rights of American citizens not only for their second amendments but all others. We are also constantly on the streets int he communities picking up garbage people leave behind them in hopes we clean the communities up and free some of our resources for such things. We have also enjoyed walking through the strip casinos, and the strip itself as free men and women openly carrying fire arms and are often approached by citizens thanks us for being armed and that they themselves and their families feel safer knowing there are men and women that take personal safety seriously in these dire times.

    I again urge you to change policy to abide by state law and allow service to those of us that choose to or have no other choice but to openly carry our personal protection tools, our side arms. As only half allowing a right is not allowing a right to begin with. It not only singles out, but ostracizes us law abiding citizens, free American citizens. Our voice and impact has been felt, and for businesses and corporations that take a stand and choose to follow state law have all been praised and even gained business because of such views. Thank you again for your time and thoughts on this issue.



    xxxxxxx x xxxxx xx ( my name here)

  14. #14
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    The way I read it he talked a lot and said nothing, let's see if your reply gets a response. I doubt he really knows what rights are.




    Quote Originally Posted by Remmy View Post
    So I got a reply,

    Dear Mr. Green,

    My name is Todd Parmelee, Vice President of Operations for Golden Tavern Group. I first want to thank you for taking the time to express your sentiments and insight towards a subject that is important to you, as this item is important to us.

    I really think I can express the situation very quickly and hope that you have the correct information to make a decision whether to remain a loyal guest or not. In no way did anyone from this company establish that we would "deny service" to any individual that carried a concealed firearm. There has been multiple incidents where your colleague made our guests and team members very uncomfortable because he is "parading" around with his firearm in view for everyone to see.

    You expressed it yourself that you visit our taverns "mostly unarmed due to wanting to enjoy some alcoholic beverages". I truly believe that a tavern/bar atmosphere is a dangerous place to visibly showcase a firearm. We have an obligation to protect and create a safe working environment for all of our team members and create a safe environment for all of our guests. Golden Tavern Group has many Executives and team members that carry firearms and we even held a Firearms Safety Class, at our Home Office, last month, hosted by Kevin Tuttle and we have a great relationship with American Shooters, located on Arville.

    To get to my point, we are supportive of the rights of every American and Nevada citizen. It's when one or many individuals deviate from the rights and the rights of others, in our taverns, that we have to react to.

    I look forward to your response and again, we value your remarks and your patronage of our taverns.

    Sincerely,

    TODD PARMELEE
    VICE PRESIDENT OF OPERATIONS



    GOLDEN TAVERN GROUP
    A GOLDEN GAMING COMPANY
    6595 S JONES BLVD LAS VEGAS NV 89118
    T 702 891-4283 F 702 495-4333
    todd.parmelee@goldengaminginc.com
    Last edited by drdcup; 12-08-2011 at 07:53 PM.

  15. #15
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    my letter:

    Open carry is legal and safe.
    I have been informed that your establishments have started to prohibit open carry
    despite years of patronage by folks that routinely open carry.
    I can no longer patronize your establishments due to this new policy.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Remmy's Avatar
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    second response I just received, I also have edited out my posts to remove his direct email address as requested.


    Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 17:35:33 -0800
    Subject: RE: WRT open carry of firearms in Nevada.

    Mr. Green,

    I received your response to my initial email and I have actually forwarded that email to the owner of our company to once and for all, put everyone at piece on this issue. Below you will find another email that was just sent to me. I politely ask that you do not make my company email address knowledge to others that I have not corresponded with. I professionally responded to your original email, from our company website whereas you created that email.

    Once I receive some more input from the owner and head executives of GGI, I will respond to you first. By loading up my individual email folder, well that will not make my position at work very efficient. All I was trying to do, by responding to you, was to rectify this situation on your behalf, not create a email chain reaction.

    It would be greatly appreciated that what ever correspondence you and I have, you can relay that message without this email address attached.

    Greatly appreciated,

    TODD PARMELEE
    VICE PRESIDENT OF OPERATIONS



    GOLDEN TAVERN GROUP
    A GOLDEN GAMING COMPANY
    6595 S JONES BLVD LAS VEGAS NV 89118
    T 702 891-4283 F 702 495-4333




    From: Christopher
    Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 5:23 PM
    To: Parmelee, Todd
    Subject: WRT open carry of firearms in Nevada.

    Open carry is legal and safe.
    I have been informed that your establishments have started to prohibit open carry
    despite years of patronage by folks that routinely open carry.
    I can no longer patronize your establishments due to this new policy.
    Chris Johnson.
    Last edited by Remmy; 12-08-2011 at 08:42 PM.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Remmy's Avatar
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    and my response to him,

    Mr, Parmelee,

    My apologies for your email getting out to those of us that are concerned about this matter, I originally posted your reply without headers but did not see that your email address was in your signature, I have since edited that post to remove it. Thank you for your attention to this matter and thank you for forwarding these concerns to the owner. I appreciate all the time and effort you have put into responding to me on a professional level and hope that I will still be able to come and spend some good money in your establishments.

    Respectfully,

    Daniel Green

  18. #18
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    Here is what I sent to the general email.

    It is my understanding that PTs wishes to deny service to those of us who open carry firearms to protect ourselves and families. Many of us in the community carry in this fashion. Did you know that those of us who are legal firearms owners have been background checked by the FBI? That we are not child abusers? That we have not been convicted or charged with a felony? That we have no history of domestic violence? Can you say that about others in your establishment? I am sorry that myself and wife and those we work with will no longer be able to use your services. We can not in good conscience be at a place or give money to someone who does not respect our rights as citizens. We do on the other hand have a nice list of dining places who do welcome us and enjoy our money and time. We also have a list of those who do not want our money and time.

  19. #19
    Regular Member The Big Guy's Avatar
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    I sent to the general customer service email as well. Just told them that I would not patronize their establishment and would not entertain business clients there anymore.

    TBG
    Life member GOA and NRA. Member of SAF, NAGR, TXGR and Cast Bullet Assoc.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Remmy View Post
    So I got a reply,

    I really think I can express the situation very quickly and hope that you have the correct information to make a decision whether to remain a loyal guest or not. In no way did anyone from this company establish that we would "deny service" to any individual that carried a concealed firearm. There has been multiple incidents where your colleague made our guests and team members very uncomfortable because he is "parading" around with his firearm in view for everyone to see.
    It's possible he forgot or didn't know he was lying, but I specifically asked him about other carry options than open, so that I could be as detailed and thorough as possible. And I even stated some of the conversation in my post about how he remarked about not doing pat downs, implying ccw was ok, but then when directly asked, he said no. He had difficulty answering any direct question, without trying to ask me a question in return first. But recently relocated citizens, etc, etc, people that can't obtain a ccw shouldn't be denied service anyway. And its funny how he said I'm parading around, and that multiple guests and team members were uncomfortable, but none said anything to me (other than positive things). This guy's emails, you can't hear his voice or his sarcasm or rudeness. I hope some of you get to speak to him on the phone as well. And keep in mind I let him know I had been going once or twice a month, for the last year, and that in that time he couldn't tell me of a single complaint, and that his own bar tender had seen me on near a dozen occasions and didn't even notice. Meaning those dozen times nobody complained or brought it up either, guests or staff.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    Interesting thread. Just a thought. When replying or emailing it's best to keep it very short and to the point. I really lost the gist of the long reply.

    One thing that is puzzling about OC - why do people fret about a handgun they can see. They might be standing next to a criminal with a concealed gun. At least the gun you see, being carried by a law-abiding citizen is not going to jump out of the holster (or be pulled from concealment) and start shooting.

    I sometimes have a cartoon in my head (Guy sees a man with a compact semi-auto in a discrete holster on his belt) 'Look, look, that guy has a gun'. (guy next to him opens his coat and says) 'you mean like this' (displaying a sawed-off and a Thompson Contender), lol.
    A gun in a holster is better than one drawn and dispensing bullets. Concealed forces the latter. - ixtow

    Hi, I'm hypercritical. But I mean no harm, I just like to try to look deeply at life

  22. #22
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    FYI they have info for all the management folks all the way up to the owner on the website. Its not hard to figure out the email address of any of them based on the corporate email.

  23. #23
    28kfps
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    I sent this to the general e-address.

    I have been informed some of the PTs in Las Vegas have refused to follow the norm of the majority of Nevada business who allow their customers to follow the state law allowing legal firearms to be carried on premise. A very small example of business that do follow the state law are, Chillys, Out-Back, Famous Dave’s, Denny’s, Wal-Mart, Target, Smith’s food stores, Fry’s Electronics, The shopping malls.

    For a business to say they do not allow guns in is simply not true. PTs allows illegal guns in their facilities all the time, every night. Those that carry illegal guns do not carry them in such a way they will be seen. So having such rule will only stop those that carry legally from entering the business. Those that legally open carry a gun are not a felon and have passed a background check to purchase the firearm. Those legally carry concealed are every 5 years fingerprinted and background checked, undergo firearm training, and updated on the laws all at their own expense. Civilians that carry legal firearm have a lot invested into their right to do so. Legal carrying gun owners know gun laws better than most security and some of the law enforcement.
    If the establishment wanted to make it known, they want to control weapons entering their establishment then post a sign saying “NO ILLGIAL WEAPONS ALLOWED” Have the balls to post that sign and you will get all the free advertising across the pro-gun blogs, forms, and, internet sites.

    Until that happens I and my friends will no longer spend a dime in any PTs.

  24. #24
    Regular Member jdholmes's Avatar
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    You had me till the second paragraph...

  25. #25
    28kfps
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdholmes View Post
    You had me till the second paragraph...
    Are you telling me that once again I sent out something hard to read and to comprehend my point? I have a talent. My dad always said if you cannot dazzle them with brilliance baffle them with Bull s#1t.

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