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Thread: A Pleasant Surprise! OC Gun Suggestions?

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    A Pleasant Surprise! OC Gun Suggestions?

    I am new to the forum. I'm 20 years old and live in Murray, KY. Yesterday, I was riding in my father's pickup truck. When we got to the destination he told me to go back to town and pick up a few things. In the truck he had two rifles, a shotgun, and my bow. I asked him if it was alright for me to drive with all that in there. He said he guessed! Oh well, I drove to town and back ignorant to the laws. Today, he gave me a Chinese SKS to hunt with along with my other rifle and my bow. My interest peaked in FAs so I researched how I could get a permit to own one. To my surprise, I didn't need one as long as it was in plain sight! So now I'm super interested in OCing everywhere I go. First I need a pistol (it's hard to OC a rifle :P). I was looking at the Hi-Point Green Camo 40SW. It's very cheap, but reviews about it have been somewhere along the lines of "ugly but reliable". I actually don't find it that ugly, and may order one quite soon. My other option is the Beretta U22 Neos with 6in barrel. It is quite beautiful, pretty cheap, but I hear it sometimes has problems firing. I will certainly never be in a situation where I need to have a better looking gun than someone else :P

    I am going to look at used guns tomorrow. I want a semi-auto with 8+ rounds and ideal price of, say, $300, with max at $400. Can anyone help? Also, what are some other good FA friend forums?



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    My Remington 7600 .270 beside my Chinese SKS

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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Just my opinions:

    I would not carry the beretta .22 because you may need to defend yourself with it. A .22 can kill people but shot placement is key. You seem new to firearms and unless you are the exception to the rule you probably won't be too good of a shot in a high adrenaline situation.

    Some people refer to the .40 as the "slow and weak" this is not the case and plenty adequate for self defense. But it also has brisk recoil (so i've heard). Practice is very important but it is even more so when you are shooting anything with high recoil.

    As long as you get a good name gun you should be fine.

    Read up on KRS 237 and 527. Read and understand every law that you will have to abide by. You don't want to be arrested getting your drivers license renewed.

    "FA" means different things to different people. You could have meant "firearm" "full-auto" "field artillery" and each could have made sense.

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    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Open Carry a 105mm Howitzer on the back of your truck. Win 1500 internets and epic awesomeness.
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    [QUOTE=09jisaac;1640909]Just my opinions:

    I would not carry the beretta .22 because you may need to defend yourself with it. A .22 can kill people but shot placement is key. You seem new to firearms and unless you are the exception to the rule you probably won't be too good of a shot in a high adrenaline situation.

    Some people refer to the .40 as the "slow and weak" this is not the case and plenty adequate for self defense. But it also has brisk recoil (so i've heard). Practice is very important but it is even more so when you are shooting anything with high recoil.

    As long as you get a good name gun you should be fine.

    Read up on KRS 237 and 527. Read and understand every law that you will have to abide by. You don't want to be arrested getting your drivers license renewed.


    Where do you hear people referring to the .40 as slow and weak?? They are unaware of this rounds abilities, and as you stated great for self defense. The .40 is faster and produces more energy than the 9mm or .45. The standard load is 165 grains at 1150 fps. However you can get 125 grain rockets right at 1400 fps. The .40 is an awesome caliber, the main reason nearly 60 odd percent of leo's in this country carry it. It was developed because the 10mm was to much for some to handle, so they shortened it and the .40 s&w was born. After the 10mm the .40 is my favorite caliber, so he would be headed in the right direction with such a purchase....

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    Activist Member carsontech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    Open Carry a 105mm Howitzer on the back of your truck. Win 1500 internets and epic awesomeness.
    I just almost ruined my computer with Coke!

    What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response, were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having read it. I award you no internets, and may God have mercy on your soul.

    Sorry, I just wanted to use the word internets as a noun, as you did. I find it hilarious for some reason... and no, I'm not kidding, I literally find it amusing and hilarious. Where's the ROFL smiley when you need it?
    Last edited by carsontech; 11-03-2011 at 10:54 AM.

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    So I went into a gun shop today and was told I couldn't purchase a handgun because of some federal law saying someone under 21 cannot purchase them. I was informed, however, that if someone gave it to me, I could possess it. I also informed them of the open carry law, about which they apparently had no idea. =[ They do however carry the HiPoint 9 for an easy $150. I would really like to shoot one of these before buying one, has anyone had any experience?

    By FA I meant firearm, thanks for pointing that out.

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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KYGlockster View Post
    Where do you hear people referring to the .40 as slow and weak?? They are unaware of this rounds abilities, and as you stated great for self defense. The .40 is faster and produces more energy than the 9mm or .45. The standard load is 165 grains at 1150 fps. However you can get 125 grain rockets right at 1400 fps. The .40 is an awesome caliber, the main reason nearly 60 odd percent of leo's in this country carry it. It was developed because the 10mm was to much for some to handle, so they shortened it and the .40 s&w was born. After the 10mm the .40 is my favorite caliber, so he would be headed in the right direction with such a purchase....
    I have read the S&W stands for "slow and weak" or "short and wimpy" or the combination of the two. But, like I said, the .40 can kill (read stop) just as easily as any other defensive caliber.

    The most important part to a one shot stop is the shot placement. If you are using weak loaded FMJ rounds in .22short and hit them in the eye it would probably do the trick. Then you have ammo as a consideration. You want ammo that effectively dumps all of its kinetic energy into the target, not the hill/wall/bystandard behind it. The best way to do this is to have more overall surface area. But the best way for it to retain the energy through flight is a smaller more aerodynamic form. Enter hollow points/ ballistic tips. And the least important is caliber. Any of the major defensive calibers will stop a threat if you do your job. But a .38, .357mag, a 9x19, .40, .357sig, .40, 50AE, .500s&w will all get the job done. You just have to choose what is right for you.

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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahughesart View Post
    So I went into a gun shop today and was told I couldn't purchase a handgun because of some federal law saying someone under 21 cannot purchase them. I was informed, however, that if someone gave it to me, I could possess it. I also informed them of the open carry law, about which they apparently had no idea. =[ They do however carry the HiPoint 9 for an easy $150. I would really like to shoot one of these before buying one, has anyone had any experience?

    By FA I meant firearm, thanks for pointing that out.
    Yes, you cannot purchase a handgun or handgun ammo (Tell them its for a carbine?) from a FFL (federal firearms license) holder until the age of 21. But you can buy a handgun at a flea market, or gun show, or from your family or friends, or just some guy you met off the internet (make sure its not stolen). Person to person sales are legal in Kentucky with no form of registration. So even if a cop was watching you you wouldn't be doing anything illegal.

    And I assumed you meant that. Btw, you don't need a license to own a full auto (or field artillery) in kentucky either. Just a $200 tax stamp and if I'm not mistaken you don't need that for a breech loading cannon(?). : )

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    Is it legal to convert an AR15 to Fully-Auto by the use of M16 components with said tax stamp, or do you have to have all the same numbered parts?

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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahughesart View Post
    Is it legal to convert an AR15 to Fully-Auto by the use of M16 components with said tax stamp, or do you have to have all the same numbered parts?
    You came to the wrong person to ask this of. To my best recollection you can only convert a preban ('76?) weapon to full auto legally. I have been told that that law has sunset, but I don't put much count in stranger's words.

    And AR-15 in the civilian market are designed with more material in the place were the auto sear goes to keep you from taking m16 parts and converting them.

    But if yo do have a preban gun, yes you can convert it to full auto with the tax stamp. Just remember, get the stamp before the parts. If you have the parts and the gun without the stamp then you have an unregistered machine gun, even if they're not installed.

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    Ok I just called a local fleamarket and he said that in order to own a handgun you have to register it and you cannot do so unless you are 21 years of age. Does this only apply to buying a new gun or is what he said true? I read you can buy guns from fleamarkets at age 18.

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    There is no registration in KY. That would be impossible.

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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by langzaiguy View Post
    There is no registration in KY. That would be impossible.
    +1

    Even if you buy a new handgun the records stay at the place you bought it unless limited circumstances. You can buy a handgun at the age of 18 from anyone willing to sale it to you. But being as most are ignorant to the laws some won't sale it to you.

    Don't believe most unless they can cite the law. And now I refer you BACK to KRS 237 and 527. Notice in 527 the part about youths having a handgun? It only mentions anyone UNDER the age of 18. It never once says anything about having to be 21 to own or carry a handgun. And the great part about this country is: it is legal until there is a law stating otherwise.

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    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carsontech View Post
    I just almost ruined my computer with Coke!

    What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response, were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having read it. I award you no internets, and may God have mercy on your soul.

    Sorry, I just wanted to use the word internets as a noun, as you did. I find it hilarious for some reason... and no, I'm not kidding, I literally find it amusing and hilarious. Where's the ROFL smiley when you need it?
    I object to your reality, and substitute it with my own.

    Was only making light humour about it, though I credit you with a cleaver way of using 'internets'. You, sir, win a free hug.

    Though really, it's no more insanely idiotic than a dude at Knob Creek OC'ing a Full auto AK Pistol, albeit unloaded...
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    Quote Originally Posted by 09jisaac View Post
    You came to the wrong person to ask this of. To my best recollection you can only convert a preban ('76?) weapon to full auto legally. I have been told that that law has sunset, but I don't put much count in stranger's words.

    And AR-15 in the civilian market are designed with more material in the place were the auto sear goes to keep you from taking m16 parts and converting them.

    But if yo do have a preban gun, yes you can convert it to full auto with the tax stamp. Just remember, get the stamp before the parts. If you have the parts and the gun without the stamp then you have an un registered machine gun, even if they're not installed.
    The ban happened in 83 and it was an amendment to the Firearm Owners Protection Act bill that was passed. Yes the irony is stomach churning. It was also an amendment that wasn't legally added to the bill in that it did not receive enough votes, I've seen the congressional video from that day and I've seen the vote count and that amendment should have never been added.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 09jisaac View Post
    And I assumed you meant that. Btw, you don't need a license to own a full auto (or field artillery) in kentucky either. Just a $200 tax stamp and if I'm not mistaken you don't need that for a breech loading cannon(?). : )
    Does that mean this is inaccurate?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    No. Machine guns that were not registered before the deadline in 1986 can not be
    registered now. Machine guns manufactured or converted after that date can only be possessed by military, police, government agencies or licensed dealers/manufactures, there are a very few exception. Civilians can only buy one that was already registered prior to the deadline in 1986. This is the reason the prices have skyrocketed. A legally registered 40 year old M16 can sell for as much as $15,000 compared to a new semi-automatic AR15 that can be bought for $800. The number of machine guns available to civilians is getting smaller every day and one day they will vanish. Also, the substitution of M16 parts into a AR15 will not make it fire full auto reliably. You may get it to fire a few shots this way, but is not predictable and not true full auto. The hammer will just ride the bolt closed, this is dangerous. In order to achieve true full auto fire the hammer must be delayed from falling until the bolt is completely closed. In order to accomplish reliable full auto fire an auto sear, or some substitute for one, must be installed. The timing of this is tricky and even slight errors will result in problems and stoppages. A true auto sear requires an extra hole in the receiver for the pin. There are substitutes for auto sears such as drop in auto sears and lightening links. These do not require a hole to be drilled. To be used legally they must have been registered just like a machine gun and the same rules apply. A properly registered drop in auto sear can sell for $10,000 or more, just that one small part. They can usually be swapped from one unregistered gun to another. Unregistered sears, manufactured after 1986, may be bought, but possession of one at the same time you possess a AR15 is "constructive possession" of an unregistered machine gun and can get you 10 years in the federal pen. I own a registered, fully automatic Colt AR15 manufactured in 1971. I have several different length barrels, from 7.5 in. to 16 in. that I swap out simply by changing the upper. It took months to get it to fire reliably with all of them. Just changing the barrel length can cause problems because you are also changing the length of the gas tube that runs along the top of the barrel. This changes the volume of gas to cycle the action and the weight of the bolt and buffer must be adjusted to compensate for this. To get them to work with several different barrel lengths is a real job and sometimes requires a competent gunsmith.

    I knew I shouldn't have been lazy and verified the year, was a bit unsure if it was 83.

    The next best thing is slidefire stocks. My buddy has a couple for his ARs and he loves them. They are supposed to come out with a version for the AK, but he got impatient and made his own with a dragonov style stock and it works great.

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    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    I wonder, would "Zombie Apocalypse Preparation" work for a reason on a tax stamp (or whatever) for an automatic weapon. Hmm, honestly WHAT is a good reason? and would one person need like an FFL or something to rent it, as it to let someone shoot it for money under your supervision? like the guys at the knob creek lower range hmm... wonder how illegal it is to hunt with an automatic weapon...

    OOooh~ another one, is a tax stamp (or whatever it's called) need to own an automatic Mk19? D
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    Damn, I'm gonna have to get that slidefire for my AR15

  20. #20
    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    I wonder, would "Zombie Apocalypse Preparation" work for a reason on a tax stamp (or whatever) for an automatic weapon. Hmm, honestly WHAT is a good reason? and would one person need like an FFL or something to rent it, as it to let someone shoot it for money under your supervision? like the guys at the knob creek lower range hmm... wonder how illegal it is to hunt with an automatic weapon...

    OOooh~ another one, is a tax stamp (or whatever it's called) need to own an automatic Mk19? D
    Yes, any supressor, or a gun capable of firing multiple times with just one pull of the trigger or any destructive device (grenades, grenade launcher, field artillery, flame thrower) you need a tax stamp.

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    Activist Member carsontech's Avatar
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    Thanks, I always wondered about this kind of stuff. I am planning on getting into the full auto fun once I start making some bank, lol. Or, hopefully, the ATF will be disbanded soon and all the stupid NFA and GCA crap will be gone along with it.

    Just a suggestion, can you start creating paragraphs, my head is hurting from the wall of text.

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    Regular Member Manzanita's Avatar
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    A Paducah based ISP has an excellent classifieds section with a very active firearms category.

    http://classifieds.vci.net/

    I check it often and have sold and bought guns there. I'm not trashing Hi-Points but in your price range you might find something much better there.

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    If I were going to buy a used gun, how would I confirm that it hadn't been stolen???
    Also, thanks for the link Manzanita! Very useful
    Last edited by ahughesart; 11-04-2011 at 11:00 AM.

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    It's always that rich 1% trying keep us PO' folk from enjoying the most entertaining things in life.
    A bullet may have your name on it, but shrapnel is addressed to whom it may concern.
    Why open carrying is a good idea: http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-14...encounter.html

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    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    I know it's not helping stay on topic but... While at knob creek, I noticed a M1919 .30Cal cloth-belt fed semi-auto MG. And also a B.A.R. also Semi-auto. Though the firing rate on auto for a BAR is a tab bit quicker than single semi auto pulls of a trigger. If someone was to buy either of them, and wanted to legally make them fully auto; would that person need the regular tax stamp you mentioned? or would the person require an arse load more of paperwork?

    Also, would it have to be the County Sheriff? Could it be the regional KSP commander? I'm not exactly on good terms with the sheriff since I broke up with his son...sooo..... And also, I paid a public intoxication fine off a couple months back, first fine I've ever gotten, with no other charges or fines on record. Would that prevent or hinder a Form 4/Tax Stamp validation?

    Thankies~ <3
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