Occupy...?

Jim675 said:

Are you saying only the right people should have guns?

My personal omniscience is somewhat unreliable.
I prefer to judge actual actions.

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I'm saying people with a documented history of violence should not have guns when engaged in activities that tend to lead them to said violence.

I'm saying people without a certain level of maturity to safely handle guns, should not have guns.

When the Tea Party gets together to have a protest, no one not involved is inconvenienced, they clean up after themselves, and there's never even a hint of violence even though half of them are armed.

Whenever these people get together, however, they make a royal mess, disrupt the lives of people who are not even the targets of their ire, and have a bad habit of starting riots and smashing up stores run by law-abiding, innocent business folk.

That demonstrates to me a certain lack of maturity and rational decision making skills.

I'm not sure if you're seriously debating this or not. Just in case: who determines if we're mature enough? How would you legally justify that requirement since it is notably absent from the state and national constitutions?
Even people we don't like have rights. Especially people we don't like. Otherwise there's no such thing as a "right", only cronyism.

Jim675 said:

I'm not sure if you're seriously debating this or not. Just in case: who determines if we're mature enough? How would you legally justify that requirement since it is notably absent from the state and national constitutions?
Even people we don't like have rights. Especially people we don't like. Otherwise there's no such thing as a "right", only cronyism.

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Go back & read my first reply to you, specifically my "disclaimer" at the bottom:

Metalhead47 said:

*Note that I did NOT say that they should be denied the same 2A rights we enjoy, rather that they ought not be exercising them until they demonstrate some maturity.

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Where in anything I said do you find any mention of a legal requirement or any statement that their rights should be actively denied by anyone?

I said they OUGHT not have guns. They OUGHT not be there at all. Merely showing up to support such an event, IMHO, demonstrates a distinct lack of maturity and rational decision making skills. Hence, they OUGHT not be armed.

Capiche?

These occupy protests are a joke. If anything, I'd be there to fill them in on what I believe is the truth.

I'll just keep OCing as I do in my everyday life.

Metalhead47 said:

Go back & read my first reply to you, specifically my "disclaimer" at the bottom:

My apologies, I missed the small font disclaimer, confusing it with a signature line.

Where in anything I said do you find any mention of a legal requirement or any statement that their rights should be actively denied by anyone?

I said they OUGHT not have guns. They OUGHT not be there at all. Merely showing up to support such an event, IMHO, demonstrates a distinct lack of maturity and rational decision making skills. Hence, they OUGHT not be armed.

Capiche?

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"Ought not" and "should not" sound rather imperative. I guess I just reject the notion that one's politics or anything else short of a conviction at trial justifying the notion someone should not exercise a right.

Much of the reporting around the Occupiers (O) seems similarly shallow to that of the Tea Partiers. Both groups encompass a considerable diversity of belief and actions. There is a fair amount of overlap in their participants.

O's that are incensed about Wall Street bail-outs seem perfectly sensible to me. I wish them well. I would prefer them to be OC and appear to be articulate when interviewed.

Jim675 said:

"Ought not" and "should not" sound rather imperative. I guess I just reject the notion that one's politics or anything else short of a conviction at trial justifying the notion someone should not exercise a right.

Much of the reporting around the Occupiers (O) seems similarly shallow to that of the Tea Partiers. Both groups encompass a considerable diversity of belief and actions. There is a fair amount of overlap in their participants.

O's that are incensed about Wall Street bail-outs seem perfectly sensible to me. I wish them well. I would prefer them to be OC and appear to be articulate when interviewed.

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No, they don't. "Must not" or "will not" are. Respecting someone's rights is NOT the same thing as condoning or accepting their actions. I think people ought not do drugs, engage in prostitution, or worship Obama. That is a very far cry from saying they should be prevented from doing so.

And I'm sure you're not inferring that those fools are only out there protesting about Wall Street bailouts. They're out there demanding more government and more handouts, taken from those who actually produce. THEY are the ones saying "must not" and supporting active denial of rights.

Metalhead47 said:

No, they don't. "Must not" or "will not" are. Respecting someone's rights is NOT the same thing as condoning or accepting their actions. I think people ought not do drugs, engage in prostitution, or worship Obama. That is a very far cry from saying they should be prevented from doing so.

And I'm sure you're not inferring that those fools are only out there protesting about Wall Street bailouts. They're out there demanding more government and more handouts, taken from those who actually produce. THEY are the ones saying "must not" and supporting active denial of rights.

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This is the closest comment that I've seen yet on this subject to matching my own. Sure seems that many in the OCCUPY movement have either never learned or failed to retain the knowledge that ENVY and COVETOUSNESS are NOT traits to be encouraged or sought after!

I'm not claiming anything of them at all, other than the odds that you could collect people with the exact same opinions is ludicrous. Of course they have varying complaints. Which is why I try not to use pejoratives against all of them as a group.

For those who have a single good idea (or more), I wish them perseverance.

For you, I wish you a good evening.

JoeSparky said:

This is the closest comment that I've seen yet on this subject to matching my own. Sure seems that many in the OCCUPY movement have either never learned or failed to retain the knowledge that ENVY and COVETOUSNESS are NOT traits to be encouraged or sought after!

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C'mon, seriously, do you not know that the greed of the poor is morally superior to the greed of the rich?

As far as I've seen, the majority of these occupy protesters only demand more free crap from the government. The few that say END THE FED I can agree with. The few that want to end these insane bailouts, I can agree with. The few that want people to actually work for their own stuff, I can agree with. The majority are turning it into a communist, socialist, "GIMMIE EVERYTHING FOR FREE BECAUSE I'M SOME SORT OF <insert class here> AND UNEMPLOYED" type of group. People who don't want to work for anything and demand that the rest of us provide for them. That's what I see.

To make this OC related: I'll just OC as I normally do, and if I encounter any of these occupy protesters, I'll fill them in on what I think. Hopefully they'll walk away with more/better knowledge.

DEROS72 said:

Why would anyone want to OC at an Occupy venue.In light of the anti's trying to introduce a ban on OC we do not want to be seen at one of these.They will spin it as Oc group looking for confrontation.If they introduce this anti OC ban they will be looking for every opportunity to put us in a bad light.Stay away from these groups.We have to be seen (or not seen in this case ) in the best possible light.Our behavior must be exemplary and we are not looking to get noticed at one of these or be seen associating with these people.

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I feel like I am in elementary school and my first grade class is taking a field trip.

Maybe it's not that anyone wants to OC at an occupy venue, but that they want to be at the occupy venue and it just so happens that they OC as a part of their daily life?

GreenIsFaster said:

I feel like I am in elementary school and my first grade class is taking a field trip.

Maybe it's not that anyone wants to OC at an occupy venue, but that they want to be at the occupy venue and it just so happens that they OC as a part of their daily life?

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Bingo!

Jim675 said:

who determines if we're mature enough?

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Simple answer. The parties themselves, through their actions.

Everyone has the same rights. The laws of Society take them away from individuals who show that they can't exercise them without damaging the rights of others.

Diversity of opinion within the OWS movement

.45ACPaddy said:

As far as I've seen, the majority of these occupy protesters only demand more free crap from the government. The few that say END THE FED I can agree with. The few that want to end these insane bailouts, I can agree with. The few that want people to actually work for their own stuff, I can agree with. The majority are turning it into a communist, socialist, "GIMMIE EVERYTHING FOR FREE BECAUSE I'M SOME SORT OF <insert class here> AND UNEMPLOYED" type of group. People who don't want to work for anything and demand that the rest of us provide for them. That's what I see.

To make this OC related: I'll just OC as I normally do, and if I encounter any of these occupy protesters, I'll fill them in on what I think. Hopefully they'll walk away with more/better knowledge.

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I am a Member of Occupy Winston Salem. I also OC much of the time and CC at other times. Yes there are people in the movement that are the permanently poor looking for yet another handout. There are hippies and teenager anarchists. There are also successful middle class people, like myself, who are disgusted with the finnancial (dis)services industry. This industry is as selfish and exponentially more destructive than the permanent underclass.

Yes the lazy and shiftless among us are a problem that need some address and welfare reform was a great start. However, I feel the greater immediate threat to our American way of life are these financial industry oligarcs that seek to turn our country not into a communist state but into a present day Russia or China.

No hate said:

I am a Member of Occupy Winston Salem. I also OC much of the time and CC at other times. Yes there are people in the movement that are the permanently poor looking for yet another handout. There are hippies and teenager anarchists. There are also successful middle class people, like myself, who are disgusted with the finnancial (dis)services industry. This industry is as selfish and exponentially more destructive than the permanent underclass.

Yes the lazy and shiftless among us are a problem that need some address and welfare reform was a great start. However, I feel the greater immediate threat to our American way of life are these financial industry oligarcs that seek to turn our country not into a communist state but into a present day Russia or China.

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Funny what some post their first time here...

Jim675

the entire problem with your argument is guilt by association.
we DO NOT and should not want to be around these people for the following reasons.

.we have no issue with people exercising their right 1st, 2nd etc... however we still must operate under the nature of those rights

yes they have a right to protest. they can stand on a public street corner and scream their lungs out however when they break the law via tresspass, blocking commerce etc... they are no longer protected as they could freely go someplace else and exercise that right without infringing on the rights of others or breaking laws.


.guilt by association
historically ALL maxist socialist movements turn violent, they may try to hide it under a cloud or catch phrases like "social justice" but in the end when they do not get what they want from being a nusance they only have place to go.
when you associate with groups like these you become part of them in the public eye. if i stood around with a bunch of neonazis in waffen SS uniforms who were not doing historical re-enacting what would people assume of me when they saw me hanging out with them socialising?

.Tea party comparison falicy
It is a gross mistrepresntation to even compare the two groups. while both may have been outraged by the bank bailout (TARP) program thats where the similarities end.

The tea party is a- cohesive group that promote play by the rules, change at the ballot box , pro-constitution restriction on (smaller less intruasive) government, and a free market economy.

By comparison

the OWS movement is a-marxist socialist movement that wants bigger goverment, controlling the economy and private buisiness that spends more money on a welfare state with desires to gut or replace the constitution.
some of the OWS official demands include a $40K a year minimum wage, 100% government funded health care, and 100% governement funded college educations because they are "entitled"

Yet they do not want to talk about greece which is exactly the ideal society that they want......currently bankrupt with 150% GDP to debt and a 94 billion dollar spending deficit in the last 2 years.

Everything they are demanding hase been proven to not work over years of use in europe.

In the end it serves no benifit, i would go so far as to say it actually hurts the 2a and OC positions to be present at these events as a participant.

No hate said:

I am a Member of Occupy Winston Salem. I also OC much of the time and CC at other times. Yes there are people in the movement that are the permanently poor looking for yet another handout. There are hippies and teenager anarchists. There are also successful middle class people, like myself, who are disgusted with the finnancial (dis)services industry. This industry is as selfish and exponentially more destructive than the permanent underclass.

Yes the lazy and shiftless among us are a problem that need some address and welfare reform was a great start. However, I feel the greater immediate threat to our American way of life are these financial industry oligarcs that seek to turn our country not into a communist state but into a present day Russia or China.

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Redistributive justice is inherently unfair.

One cannot attain equality of outcome, only equality of opportunity.

Instead of occupying wall street, how about you do this instead

Occupy rape http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/protester_busted_in_tent_grope_QxAzp8mG8pULWA6cPzgnXL

Occupy crack cocaine http://www1.whdh.com/news/articles/local/12005815869134/occupy-boston-in-jeopardy-due-to-drug-use/

Occupy STDs http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/wo...mass-std-testing/story-e6frf7lf-1226183150936

Occupy violent assault http://online.wsj.com/article/AP4ef2a04f0cba48ffb6bab5c27a599ea7.html

Occupy hate the homeless http://gothamist.com/2011/10/27/occupy_wall_street_kitchen_revolts.php

Occupy your own hypocritical greed http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/24/occupy-wall-street-money-donated-tension_n_1029377.html

I could go on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on... but you get the general idea.

New Idea!

I have a new idea!

Tax the poor! Tax anyone who makes less than $20,000 at 100%. That will inspire people to work harder and earn more than 20k! And redistribute the money only among those taxed at 100%. Lower the tax rate the more money you make. :shocker:

tombrewster421 said:

With all the idiots getting arrested at these events, there's no way I would go near one.

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Neither would I.

Got better things to do. :dude:

gogodawgs said:

I have a new idea!

Tax the poor! Tax anyone who makes less than $20,000 at 100%. That will inspire people to work harder and earn more than 20k! And redistribute the money only among those taxed at 100%. Lower the tax rate the more money you make. :shocker:

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