ALERT: WA Ceasefire to push O.C. ban in 2012 !!!!!

amlevin said:

Rather than assume it Can't Be Done, just remember it will be far easier to fight the change BEFORE it happens than AFTER!


Remember, they aren't trying to ban all gun possession and carry, just Open Carry. This stance will garner them all kinds of support from those in groups like the NRA that think a handgun is something to be carried only when hunting or left on the nightstand for home protection.

Expect the argument that by forcing people to carry concealed then the State has the ability to do background checks for the CPL. I can hear the statements "well, they can still carry, and this way we know who's doing so legally".

Do not think this change "can't" be made. Taking that position will only insure that does happen.

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+1 ^^

There's another point to be made about this whole thing -- right now gun owners are playing defense only.

It is far better for our side to recognize this as an opportunity to submit our alternate bills. So, what are some potential alternate bills?

1) Constitutional carry with optional licenses for reciprocity.
2) Scrapping victim disarmament zone laws, particularly with regard to elementary and high schools.

I for one will ask my state senator (who claims to be pro-gun) to sponsor such bills. As long as we only fight defensively, the best we can hope for are outcomes that will not make things worse.

Something the CC only crowd needs to keep in mind (and it would help if Dave might mention this angle in his articles) is that OC isn't just about being able to wear a drop leg holster, or tucking your winter coat behind your gun while your walking around.

OC also includes having another option during warm weather, or being able to take off your coat to be comfortable while your at your favorite restaurant, and even acts as a protection from "printing and peaking" laws.

Washington CCers who are against OC also need to ask themselves if they are ready for the draconian CC laws the likes of Texas and Florida where you cant even step out of your own front door without worry of being reported.

Anyone who thinks it could never be implemented to that extent just needs to talk to a Texan in the know. The Texas CC laws were never intended to be interpreted as harshly as the way they have been by their courts.

Washington CCers need to think very carefully about how many times they have been protected by the fact that OC is legal, and consequentially that the mere casual showing of a pistol in its holster is not considered a mortal sin by the mass majority of our states citizens.

Washington die-hard CCers may be benefiting from the legality of OC much more often than they think.

A note on the issue of Concealed Carriers being at issue that do not care for Open Carry but Gun Owners in General have from my experience a distaste for it. Pointing fingers at them may not be the way to gain support from that area of legal firearms owners.
By ensuring Open Carry stays a part of our daily carry in Washington will benefit all legal firearms owners.

Remember History

"First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~Martin Niemöller

Some good comments in here so far about activism and keeping an eye on the ball.

"Big Dave" might want to appoint himself monitor of Ceasefire updates (unless I catch 'em first, of course <tsk>).

These people are deadly serious and they are devoted to their cause. Do not underestimate them, nor take them for granted.

Don't ignore it... You could end up like me....

Dave Workman said:

Some good comments in here so far about activism and keeping an eye on the ball.

"Big Dave" might want to appoint himself monitor of Ceasefire updates (unless I catch 'em first, of course <tsk>).

These people are deadly serious and they are devoted to their cause. Do not underestimate them, nor take them for granted.

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Nah Dave we have you for LATE breaking NEWS.

I did accidentally use complainant instead of the intended Complacent, so take it as you like, we know you will.

Northwest activists take Ceasefire threat seriously

Washington State gun rights activists are taking seriously – for the most part, anyway – a threat by Washington Ceasefire to go after open carry when the Legislature convenes in January, because the practice bothers them, and it can be portrayed as offensive to a large segment of the public, including some gun owners.

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-...est-activists-take-ceasefire-threat-seriously

All we can do is be proactive and set the best example for our selfs as possible

An Open Call for Gun Owners to "Occupy" Ceasefire Foundation's 2012 Chartered Bus to Olympia
http://www.washingtonceasefire.net/content/view/144/27/

amlevin said:

Rather than assume it Can't Be Done, just remember it will be far easier to fight the change BEFORE it happens than AFTER!


Remember, they aren't trying to ban all gun possession and carry, just Open Carry. This stance will garner them all kinds of support from those in groups like the NRA that think a handgun is something to be carried only when hunting or left on the nightstand for home protection.
.

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if that's the case, why did they join me and others as Co plaintiffs on the Seattle parks gun case?

Depending on the day & time, I have seating for 7 persons after they get kicked off the bus and have no ride home.

Defense Tactics

Well.....

I am going to have my wife take some pictures of me while OC'g in the places that I OC....it may come in useful if this issue gets daylight (as in public hearings) for testimony.

The committee rooms have AV capability, and a nice power point presentation would have good effect. A picture is worth a thousand words against the surreal claims of clamity and the end of the world by WA ceasfire:

1.) All of the banks I frequent and the different branches with staff and (mgt) and folks in line: Wells, BECU, Chase, BoA,
2.) All the eateries I frequent with staff and folks in line
3.) The parks I play at with all the 90 lb pit-bulls walking their 85 lb teenage owners
4.) The capitol with the Troopers
5.) Any public function/event (like Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Years) parades, etc. (although I'll pass on the "occupy" movements
6.) All the stores I frequent: Starbucks, Alberstons, Safeway, Cabella's, H&L Fruit, Lakewood Mall stores...Lowes, Home Depot, Spas are us...
7.) I'd make a$500.00 personal donation to the AG's run for Gov. for a picture like Nick's....

No people freaking out, mothers with baby's screaming, 911 MWAG calls....Just everyone going about their business in the usual way.

I'd suggest this to others in other parts of the state too, if needed to support the breadth of the movement...

jt59, your presentation would be even better if it included pictures of Ralph Fascitelli frantically trying to keep people with HIDDEN guns off his chartered bus.

If I were to get a copy of your presentation, plus pictures from someone's cell phone via e-mail, of Ralphy desperately wanding people with a metal detector, I could get the pictures inserted into your Power Point and have it ready for you in Olympia before the hearing.

jt59 said:

<SNIP>
7.) I'd make a$500.00 personal donation to the AG's run for Gov. for a picture like Nick's....<SNIP>

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You mean this one....

For your continued reading pleasure

WA Democrat survey interesting for what it doesn’t (dare) ask

A survey mailed out this week by the Washington State Democratic Party asks most of the predictable questions about priorities – most notably getting Democrats re-elected next year – but it is significantly silent on one issue that Evergreen State gun owners can consider from two different perspectives.

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-...rvey-interesting-for-what-it-doesn-t-dare-ask

Has any open carrier here or in any other state committed a crime or hurt anybody?

99% of the time the police arrive after the crime is committed. Seattle has a 6 minute response time for priority one calls.

Carrying a gun is kind of like wearing your seatbelt, you hope you never need it but its there in an emergency.

Has any open carrier had a crime committed around him or her, or been a victim of a crime, in this state or any other. If not, is Open Carry a crime deterent?

I noticed in California the antigunners showed up at open carry meets and protested, this is how they got the media involved and got their message out. If the antigunners try that up here, maybe we should PM each other with location and times of meets.

Please don't post any negative examples of OCers doing bad, I don't want to give Ceasefire any ammo, PM me with the info please.

jsanchez said:

Has any open carrier here or in any other state committed a crime or hurt anybody?

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"In attempting to discredit open carry, anti-gun activists often like to ask the question, "How do I know that the person openly carrying is in fact a law-abiding citizen and not a criminal?" While this is an attempt to imply that anyone who lawfully carries a firearm is a potential criminal, thankfully there is an authoritative answer available. The 2006 FBI study "Violent Encounters: A Study of Felonious Assaults on Our Nation's Law Enforcement Officers" by Anthony Pinizzotto revealed that criminals carefully conceal their firearms, and they eschew the use of holsters. In layman's terms, this report tells us that, statistically speaking, citizens who are openly wearing a properly holstered handgun and are willing to subject themselves to the intense public and law enforcement scrutiny that open carry brings with it are not criminals."

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2010/04/15/why-open-carry-gun-laws-work

Violent Encounters, published by the U.S. Department of Justice
http://www.washingtonceasefire.net/documents/studies/fbi_violent_encounters.pdf

Bump

Admin, can we have this thread turned into a sticky please. This needs to remain on everyone's mind.