Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: Gun Prohibitionists Latest Trick: Let's Pass a Law to Make Gun Owners HIDE their Guns

  1. #1

    Gun Prohibitionists Latest Trick: Let's Pass a Law to Make Gun Owners HIDE their Guns

    http://www.washingtonceasefire.net/content/view/143/27/

    The Ceasefire Foundation under the new and improved leadership of "Executive Director" Gregory Roberts, has come up with a new legislative agenda:

    Our legislative priority for the 2012 state legislative session is to prohibit the UNCONCEALED, OPEN carrying of loaded weapons. It is legal in this state to carry a loaded weapon in FULL VIEW without a permit, even in government buildings such as the state Capitol – and into legislative hearing rooms during a public hearing. OPEN carrying of loaded guns was prohibited in Dodge City during the days of the Wild West and is currently prohibited in such gun-friendly states as Texas, Oklahoma and Florida.
    This new agenda replaces the failed agendas of previous years, in closing the non-existent gun show "loophole" and the mis-named "assault weapons" ban. This new agenda is also in conflict with its sister gun prohibition organizations across the country. The talking points of other gun prohibition groups is always centered on using the words "hidden" and "concealed" to falsely portray lawful gun owners as menacing criminals. Whether the new strategy represents a blunder by Gregory Roberts that undercuts his fellow gun prohibitionists, or is a calculated move that is supported by his fellow gun prohibitionists, remains to be seen.

    Examples of propaganda from other gun prohibition groups is presented below.

    1. "The proposed National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act of 2011 would shred those [state] standards and the public safety judgments behind them, creating a locked-and-loaded race to the bottom in which states with strict requirements, like New York, would be forced to allow people with permits from states with lax screening to carry HIDDEN loaded guns.

    Source: http://coloradoceasefire.org/

    2. Your right to be weapon free. As of April 2004, Ohio law allows gun owners with permits to carry loaded, HIDDEN guns in public. However, less than 1% of Ohioans have permits and only one in four Ohioans think private citizens should pack CONCEALED weapons (Gallop Poll, 2005).

    Source: http://ohioceasefire.org/newsletter/ccw.html

    3. Ohio must start protecting its citizens ... End the unpopular "CONCEALED carry" law that allows Ohioans to carry loaded, HIDDEN guns.

    Source: http://ohioceasefire.org/solutions

    4. We believe law makers should be making it harder to carry loaded, HIDDEN guns in public, not easier.

    Source: http://supgv.org

    5. While it is generally illegal for CCW permit holders to carry guns around schools, they are allowed to carry loaded, HIDDEN handguns onto school premises when they are picking up or dropping off students, as long as the firearm is not taken out of the car.

    Source: http://coloradoceasefire.org/Col-state.htm

    6. HB 1205 will allow those law-abiding citizens who have actually committed crimes to carry their HIDDEN firearms to stadiums, bars shopping malls, parks, concert halls, practically any public gathering," said Jean Gratay, testifying on behalf of Colorado Ceasefire in opposition to the bill

    Source: http://www.kdvr.com/news/politics/kd...0,577188.story

    7. Ceasefire Oregon applauds the many legislators who stood up to the gun lobby this year and refused to succumb to its strong-arm tactics. We thank, in particular, Senators Ginny Burdick, Suzanne Bonamici, Jackie Dingfelder, and Floyd Prozanski and Representatives Mary Nolan, Carolyn Tomei, and Tina Kotek. We sincerely thank all the legislators who refused to make it easier to obtain guns or to carry loaded, HIDDEN handguns in our state.

    Source: http://newtrajectory.blogspot.com/20...use-to-be.html

    8. Barr and Gottlieb are advising gun owners who want to carry guns in public to keep them CONCEALED from view; that is, make sure the danger is HIDDEN. Perhaps this exposes their real concern about the open carry movement – that it eventually will cause a surge in public concern about the far more prevalent CONCEALED carrying of guns made possible by the gun lobby-supported “shall-issue” laws passed in most states during the last two decades making it far easier to obtain licenses to carry CONCEALED weapons. They also likely fear that open carry may intensify public opposition to recent efforts to gradually expand the locations in which CONCEALED carry may occur –such as parks, bars, college campuses, even airports. After all, it’s not the “openness” of OPEN carry that scares people – it’s the presence of the guns themselves and the inherent danger they entail. The only reason there is not an equivalent reaction to CONCEALED carry is that the danger is, by definition, HIDDEN from view.

    Source: http://blog.bradycampaign.org/?p=2012

    9. Dangerous people are getting licenses to kill and a new bill in Congress will only make it easier for them to carry their loaded, HIDDEN guns on more streets in more communities.

    Source: http://www.opposingviews.com/i/socie...led-carry-bill

    10. The Brady Campaign opposes efforts to force college and school officials to allow students and teachers to carry HIDDEN handguns on campus and in classrooms.

    Source: http://bradycenter.org/search/?q=hidden

    11. Allowing untrained, or under-trained, persons to carry loaded HIDDEN handguns in public puts people at risk of being killed or injured, intentionally and unintentionally. It also makes it harder for law enforcement to identify the real perpetrators during a shooting. Allowing more people to carry CONCEALED handguns in densely populated cities, on crowded subways, buses and sports stadiums, is a recipe for disaster

    Source: http://concealedguns.procon.org/view...ourceID=010273

  2. #2
    Regular Member tombrewster421's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Roy, WA
    Posts
    1,329
    I like the one that mentions "law abiding citizens that have actually commited crimes". That makes perfect sense.😏
    Guns don't kill people, bullets do!

  3. #3
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Whatcom County
    Posts
    17,338
    Gottlieb likes to hide his gun for "tactical advantage". Which makes my radar go up for someone itching to use the gun as much more than a deterrence.

    I will ignore his advice and OC.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  4. #4
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,217
    I just can't figure out why someone would rather be surrounded by (law-abiding) people carrying hidden guns, versus seeing the firearms. It's a 'head in the sand' ostrich phenomenon, or something.
    A gun in a holster is better than one drawn and dispensing bullets. Concealed forces the latter. - ixtow

    Hi, I'm hypercritical. But I mean no harm, I just like to try to look deeply at life

  5. #5
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Whatcom County
    Posts
    17,338
    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    I just can't figure out why someone would rather be surrounded by (law-abiding) people carrying hidden guns, versus seeing the firearms. It's a 'head in the sand' ostrich phenomenon, or something.
    It really is just a minority that squeaks a lot. Like most malum prohibitum laws we have.

    Look at how many towns out law a "dangerous" breed of dogs. There is no bad dogs just bad owners.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  6. #6
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,217
    That's what's odd, all the anti-firearms people cite things which are totally unproveable and false.

    o No CC people have ever opened a crossfire in a jewelry store endangering customers,
    o The rate of illegal acts among LEOs is MUCH, much higher than among CC permit holders (10% vs .05%),
    o Guns don't go off by themselves,
    o Oc-ers walking dogs are not dangerous,
    o OC-ing is not illegal or evidence of brandishing, and
    o permit holders in general are very VERY nice people because of their carrying which makes them realize the need to deescalate and be calm
    ...and on and on.

    -----
    On dangerous dogs - not so much. Pitbull breeds are responsible for 95% of dog related killings, despite only making up 5% of the dog breeds. But, I do agree it's the owners, not the dogs in general.
    Last edited by Badger Johnson; 11-05-2011 at 11:02 AM.
    A gun in a holster is better than one drawn and dispensing bullets. Concealed forces the latter. - ixtow

    Hi, I'm hypercritical. But I mean no harm, I just like to try to look deeply at life

  7. #7
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Whatcom County
    Posts
    17,338
    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    That's what's odd, all the anti-firearms people cite things which are totally unproveable and false.

    o No CC people have ever opened a crossfire in a jewelry store endangering customers,
    o The rate of illegal acts among LEOs is MUCH, much higher than among CC permit holders (10% vs .05%),
    o Guns don't go off by themselves,
    o Oc-ers walking dogs are not dangerous,
    o OC-ing is not illegal or evidence of brandishing, and
    o permit holders in general are very VERY nice people because of their carrying which makes them realize the need to deescalate and be calm
    ...and on and on.
    Yes permit holders in general are better calmer people. I have seen some CC carriers view the "tactical advantage" perception very wrong and are looking for an encounter.

    I have also experienced more negativity and false information about OC from CC guys than I have from the many liberal hippies in my town. Personal observation. Not that all do and not that I would ever want to judge how someone carries.
    -----

    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    On dangerous dogs - not so much. Pitbull breeds are responsible for 95% of dog related killings, despite only making up 5% of the dog breeds. But, I do agree it's the owners, not the dogs in general.
    I have seen different cites that say otherwise, not that I am saying yours are false. From what I have seen and read they are no more dangerous than other dogs, do not have a "locking jaw". Etc. punishing other owners for what some owners do with their dogs is just bad law.
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 11-05-2011 at 11:47 AM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Philipsburg, Montana
    Posts
    3,137
    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    punishing other owners for what some owners do with their dogs (or weapons) is just bad law.
    (I added the weapons part)
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

  9. #9
    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    996
    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    I have seen different cites that say otherwise, not that I am saying yours are false. From what I have seen and read they are no more dangerous than other dogs, do not have a "locking jaw". Etc. punishing other owners for what some owners do with their dogs is just bad law.
    Years back, I saw a list of dog breeds, cross-referenced with reported dog bites. The list ran from least likely to bite a human to most likely. #1 was golden retriever. Pit bulls were #7. The list ran over 70 entries.

    Very few people go out to buy a pit bull as their first dog without the expectation they are buying a guard dog or attack dog. This would tend to influence how they treat the dog. Which can, in turn, alter a dog's behavior.

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    Let's start from the beginning. Back in the 1800s and up into the 1900s anyone who carried a handgun concealed fromopen view was considered a person to be watched and distrusted. Then, as "civilization" advanced and more places grew from a wide spot in the road into cities concealed carry began to grow in acceptance. But still it was "expected" that a grown man would be carrying. As the cities expanded and public police departments were introduced many men stopped carrying - obviously buying into the notion that the police were there to protect individuals from harm.

    Meanwhile, back out on the frontier and close to it, men were still expected to be men, and quite often young men from "back East" came out to prove (often to some girl who had jilted them) they in fact were "real men". It was in order to control all the testosterone-driven chest thumping that laws i places like Dodge City and Tombstone were passed making folks disarm when they came into town. Seems like even back then there were a lot of Democrats in office who felt that passing a law against some "thing" was better than enforcing laws already on the books that penalized bad/inappropriate behavior.

    Nowadays we have folks who say that the mere sight of an openly carried handgun makes them "feel unsafe". And they will come right up to you and yell that in your face, along with calling you some pretty uncomplimentary nemes. Now f you tell me that the mere sight of a handgun scares the bejeesus out of you, but you come up to me and call me names that even a member of Hell's Angels would find insulting, then I can only presume that a) you are lying about being scared by the sight of the handgun or b) that you are seriously mentally unbalanced. Sometimes I conclude that you are both a and b at the same time.

    Several folks who write in favor of RKBA issues have started using the phrase "discrete carry" instad of "concealed carry". It has its points, but personally I prefer open carry for both the personal ease and for the political/social statement it makes. I'm pretty well convinced that there are always going to be a small number of both CC-ers and OC-ers who are doing it for the bravado factor, but they seem for the most part to self-select out of the right to bear arms at all.

    This use of phrases like "hidden carry" is just one more attempt to demonize the object as opposed to dealing with the individual behavior. I think we ought to start referring to the unsecured baby-killer buckets, and the unlicensed use of poisons where children play and live, and see if any of the hoplophobes catch on. Remember, it has been proven that over 99% of all murders ate bread as children, and that every rapist used dihydrogen oxide in the 24 hours before committing their crime. We need to control those products before we all are killed or raped!

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  11. #11
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Whatcom County
    Posts
    17,338
    Well written post Skid and the third paragraph is so full of truthful observation I am going to have to borrow a few lines from it if you don't mind.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  12. #12
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Whatcom County
    Posts
    17,338
    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    (I added the weapons part)
    Perfect! It fits in exactly with my point. But hey I am just an "anarchist"....lol...
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •