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Thread: Huntington Mall, Gabriel Brothers, Ashland Mall Clear!

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    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    Cool Huntington Mall, Gabriel Brothers, Ashland Mall Clear!

    After reading someone's post recently about a mall in Paducah and their unfortunately encounter there and their subsequent contact with the mall owner's; I decided to test out the Huntington Mall in West Virginia, a mall that's owned by the same company.

    Good news, I did an open carry expedition in the Huntington Mall and didn't have a single encounter with security or LEO's. I never had as much as single query about my sidearm while shopping the Huntington Mall today.

    Good news as well, I had no bad encounters at Gabriel Brothers either! We shopped around for well over n hour and a half and there were no security guards, no police, no managers, NOTHING!

    And of course, Ashland Mall was smooth sailing as well.
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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    The ashland mall has a sign up displaying the rules. And one of the rules are no firearms.

    The mall in cannonsburg, the kyova mall, I was stopped and told not to have my gun. I haven't been there in a while, but when I was there there was no signs saying anything about firearms.

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    Ashland town center policy- No Guns, kyova mall in Boyd county policy- whatever state law allows, and not sure if you know or not but west Virginia AG issued an opinion that OC is only for west Virginia residents. So if you are ever contacted by Leo in WV you could run into some problems.

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    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 09jisaac View Post
    The ashland mall has a sign up displaying the rules. And one of the rules are no firearms.

    The mall in cannonsburg, the kyova mall, I was stopped and told not to have my gun. I haven't been there in a while, but when I was there there was no signs saying anything about firearms.
    I've never seen any signage in the Ashalnd Mall and have OC'ed there more than a few times, the same is true in Kyova Mall but other than the guitar shop, I've no other reason to go there these days but received nothing but kudos for OC'ing from a merchant.
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    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KYGlockster View Post
    Ashland town center policy- No Guns, kyova mall in Boyd county policy- whatever state law allows, and not sure if you know or not but west Virginia AG issued an opinion that OC is only for west Virginia residents. So if you are ever contacted by Leo in WV you could run into some problems.
    Well, it seems that you're correct about West Virginia. *LOL* I was going to request siting of merit but upon closer research, you're correct in reference to WV.

    It looks asthough we need to have a correction made to OCDO maps in reference to West Virginia.
    Last edited by neuroblades; 11-06-2011 at 07:13 PM.
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    Activist Member carsontech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neuroblades View Post
    It looks asthough we need to have a correction made to OCDO maps in reference to West Virginia.
    From what I've learned, the AG's opinion doesn't carry the weight of the law. Their is no statute that says open carrying a handgun in WV is prohibited if you are a non-resident.

    From what I remember, the AG was contacted and he changed his verbiage to insinuate that law enforcement "deems" that open carry only applies to WV residents. Basically, it could mean a LEO could try enforcing a law that doesn't exist.

    Fortunately, when my wife and I OC in WV, as non-residents, we never get hassled by any LEOs.

    Maybe we need a non-resident to help be an example in case-law. I'm not sure how that would work, though, since there is no law supporting the WV LEAs in there decision that OC only applies to residents.

    My wife is in WV, as we speak, exercising her right to carry openly all around the North East corner. She has a video/audio recording device for anything she might encounter. My bet is that the device comes back with no incidents recorded on it, as we've never had trouble there, even open carrying in front of LEOs in Martinsburg.
    Last edited by carsontech; 11-06-2011 at 08:06 PM.

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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neuroblades View Post
    I've never seen any signage in the Ashalnd Mall and have OC'ed there more than a few times, the same is true in Kyova Mall but other than the guitar shop, I've no other reason to go there these days but received nothing but kudos for OC'ing from a merchant.
    The rules are posted in all the mall entrances. It’s a large framed paper with medium sized writing, you have to be close to read it. But I have never been stopped there.....

    But the last time I went to kyova I stopped on my way to borders to get a movie ticket. A young boy, 4yrs old or so, noticed my gun and asked if it was real. I told him yes and that was the last I said. He brought attention to my gun but the woman still sold me a ticket. So when I came back I noticed a security guard standing out by the parking lot looking for someone and I figure it was me. He told me I wasn't allowed to have guns and that came from the property manager. I asked if I could just leave it in my truck and go into my movie. He told me yes and that he would watch my truck. The movie sucked and when I walked back outside he asked me to stay around until the sheriff came to talk to me. I knew he had no legal grounds to detain me but I figured it would be best to stay and talk. It's not too good of an idea to be perceived as fleeing, especially since it was known that I was in possession of a firearm.

    30 min later Sheriff deputy Lakes pulls up and after a 5 min conversation, during which I was sure I was going to get some steel bracelets, he was talking about how he supports our cause and how more people should be carrying and even told me something to the point of "You and your gun are welcome to Boyd county anytime."

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    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 09jisaac View Post
    30 min later Sheriff deputy Lakes pulls up and after a 5 min conversation, during which I was sure I was going to get some steel bracelets, he was talking about how he supports our cause and how more people should be carrying and even told me something to the point of "You and your gun are welcome to Boyd county anytime."
    I was going to compliment you on your courage and your convictions, but a 30 minute wait? Compliments on your patience and endurance.
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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    My girlfriend and I was both carrying. I figured if the officer had to chase us down he would already be on the edge, one wrong move and she could catch a bullet she don't deserve.

    The law was called because, once again, our age. She was 18 at the time and I was 20 (19 and 20 now). The security guard said that his bosses called but if it was up to him he wouldn't call. He kept saying something like "You've already waited 10 minutes, I can't ask you to wait any longer" but we just stood there talking to him. He seemed like a good guy, and even admitted to carrying guns.

    When Lakes got there he made me walk with him and said the security guard called, and that he was only there to check things out. So I left happy that both my girlfriend and I were not in trouble.

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    That security gaurd Works for bwh security, who is contracted through the mall, he had no authority to make you disarm, if it ever happens again walk him to an entrance, where there are framed posters stating mall policy just like the town center, however it states firearms allowed if authorized by law, so he had no idea what he was speaking of, he was a wanna be trying to act like he had authority. one of the owners of bwh is a county deputy, so I doubt his call even went through dispatch. Most of bcso's are level headed, good guys that have no problem with us exercising our rights. Some of apd's not so finest, an a few state troopers like to hassle, but when they realize you know more than them they tend to leave you alone. Im gonna contact mall manager for kyova and ask if they told bwh to not allow armed patrons. If they concur, then they are breaching there own policy, and I will try and remedy the problem, the main thing is we don't need security stating information that doesn't come directly from policy.

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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KYGlockster View Post
    That security gaurd Works for bwh security, who is contracted through the mall, he had no authority to make you disarm, if it ever happens again walk him to an entrance, where there are framed posters stating mall policy just like the town center, however it states firearms allowed if authorized by law, so he had no idea what he was speaking of, he was a wanna be trying to act like he had authority. one of the owners of bwh is a county deputy, so I doubt his call even went through dispatch. Most of bcso's are level headed, good guys that have no problem with us exercising our rights. Some of apd's not so finest, an a few state troopers like to hassle, but when they realize you know more than them they tend to leave you alone. Im gonna contact mall manager for kyova and ask if they told bwh to not allow armed patrons. If they concur, then they are breaching there own policy, and I will try and remedy the problem, the main thing is we don't need security stating information that doesn't come directly from policy.
    I would greatly appriciate that. I have only been to the movies once since. That was my favorite movie theater but I figure if they don't allow me my right to protect myself then I won't allow them to have my money.

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    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    Research

    Well, it seems that the lady and I will be visiting Ashland again this weekend, what better time to stop in Border's and to research the "signs" in the Ashland Mall and perhaps another visit to Gabriel Brothers later this evening might be in order as well. *LOL* If anyone in the Ashland area has information as to where that "sign" prohibiting OC might be located, please post and I'll look into it while we're there. We'll be leaving out of here around 12 noon today. I'll check back before we leave.
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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    In the Ashland mall the sign is in the entrance, and probably every entrance. If I recall correctly, it is a large framed sign with a list of rules. So its nothing you can read from across the room. It prohibits any weapons on mall property and don't distinguish between OC and CC.

    If you were referring to my post were a security guard stopped me at the KYOVA mall and told me I could only carry concealed, as of last time I was there, there were no signs. He said that they were posted all over the mall, but I walked all over the mall and couldn't find any.

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    Refer to post #11. Any form of carry is allowed in kyova mall, no carry in town center.

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    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 09jisaac View Post
    In the Ashland mall the sign is in the entrance, and probably every entrance. If I recall correctly, it is a large framed sign with a list of rules. So its nothing you can read from across the room. It prohibits any weapons on mall property and don't distinguish between OC and CC.

    If you were referring to my post were a security guard stopped me at the KYOVA mall and told me I could only carry concealed, as of last time I was there, there were no signs. He said that they were posted all over the mall, but I walked all over the mall and couldn't find any.
    Thank you for the information, I'll have to check for them the next time we're down, should be in 2 or 3 weeks. We ended up leaving here around 11:45 yesterday and then we didn't even make it to the Ashalnd Mall. We went to Border's to look for "goodies". *lol* Then off to the military surplus store to pick up a flag that she had ordered. We didn't really have anything there to pick up or look for at the Ashland Mall and the lady wanted to venture over into the Ohio side of the river so we took the blue bridge over there then back into Huntington and to Gabriel Brothers & then CiCi's for supper. I didn't have any encounters of the bad kind (LEO type).

    There was one small encounter that might be of interest to those in the Kentucky side. On the drive back from our journey last night, I had grown weary and decided to stop for a bottle of water and some cigars top help me stay awake. We stopped at the John Clark BP station that's beside the Giovanni's on the left. I have stopped in this station for various and sundry items on many of my late night drive's back from Ashland for doughnuts and have never had any issues prior. On this encounter though, the attendant was young guy in his early 20's, he was standing outside having a smoking and talking to an older gentleman. As I started in he stopped me to inform me that "I couldn't carry in there". I was rather surprised at this and falling back into my "educational role" as an OC'er, I stepped back and looked at the front of the store and not seeing any signage, I asked him why not, being that there were no signs stating as such. He said that they had supposedly been robbed 2 or 3 times as of late. We talked for a couple more minutes and then he asked if I had my CCDW and I asked what that had to do with it and he said that if I had that, it was OK to carry on. I told him that I did but that that had nothing to do with OC'ing. We talked for a few more minutes and he explained that it wasn't him personally but that the John Clark company that owned the station had a policy that there were to be no OC in the store now. He told me that he had his CCDW and they refused to allow him to carry in any shape, form or fashion. I then finished my transaction as I needed the cigars to stay awake, otherwise I would've left and headed on down the road. As I exited the station, he asked me if I'd like to see what they DID allow them to have in the event of a robbery? I, of course, couldn't resist seeing this as he had told me prior that they wouldn't allow them to have a sidearm, taser, or even a stun gun. They only thing they allowed them to have for protection, a hollow steel pipe about 10" long! *LOL*

    I took this opportunity to educate him more as to the his Rights of OC in Kentucky and promised to look into this issue with the John Clark company. I also suggested that he look us up on here and join the forum.
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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    I frequent a Clark's station thats only a couple hundred feet from my house.... They know me there but they have never told me I couldn't have a gun in there....

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    Did you ask what your opEnly carried holstered handgun had to do with them being robbed? Or why if they're afraid of a MWG robbing them then why concealed carry is ok hut OC isn't? That makes zlotys sense. Could you please be a little more informative of this stations location? There are actually more than one John clarkea by a Giovannis. Both are very common in this area.

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    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    Reply Received From John Clark Oil

    Being that this topic was started within a separate topic thread, I will be creating a thread for it alone, separate from this thread so that if other might need to quickly locate it without having to run a search, they can find it .

    I finally received a reply from John Clark Oil the other day, I've been away a couple of days. The reply is as follows:

    Ken,

    We do not have a policy on guns legally carried into the stores. It just frightens our cashiers due to so many robberies that occur in our business.

    I apologize for the misunderstanding and we will talk to our employees on this issue.

    Thanks,
    Martha Humphrey
    Supervisor
    Clark's Pump N Shop

    I have written back in reply thanking her for her clarification on this matter.
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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    I visited the KYOVA mall yesterday to see a movie and their rule states "Unless prohibited by law",(I remember that part word for word, the rest is paraphrased) no visitor can be in possession of a firearm on mall property.

    It don't say you can be in possession of a firearm if you're within the law, it says only the people that they can't legally disarm can be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 09jisaac View Post
    I visited the KYOVA mall yesterday to see a movie and their rule states "Unless prohibited by law",(I remember that part word for word, the rest is paraphrased) no visitor can be in possession of a firearm on mall property.

    It don't say you can be in possession of a firearm if you're within the law, it says only the people that they can't legally disarm can be.
    Ok folks, I went to kyova mall to take a picture of this sign because some people are obviously confused, but the sign is to high! Here is what it says EXACTLY!, " unless PERMITTED by LAW, visitors can not carry deadly weapons". The emphasis on permitted and law are my own, because these are the two key words. State LAW allows us to carry
    concealed if we have a cdwl, and state LAW allows us to carry openly without a license because of our constitution. People not allowed BY LAW, like felons, people under certain court orders, etc., are no permitted BY LAW to carry, therefore the malls policy also excludes such folks that would be carrying illegally. This is simply worded so people ignorant of the law won't carry, however it's easily understandable. This is feel good
    wording, much like the Boyd county public library sign. Mall policy=if law allows you to carry, you can carry! Plain and simple.. Unless PERMITTED by LAW, is quite different than your incorrect quote of "unless PROHIBITED by LAW! Carry on in kyova mall!!!
    Last edited by KYGlockster; 01-02-2012 at 12:51 PM.

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    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    Ashland Mall

    Me & the lady paid a visit to Ashalnd Mall after a tiresome drive down to stop at Border's only to find out that they closed early on New Year's Eve. Upon approaching the front door I looked very closely for the supposed warning signs about no firearms allowed and saw nothing posted at the main front entrance. I carried on and had no encounters, I even passed a couple of mall security guys strolling along and not a single word.

    Ya gotta love the Commonwealth!
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    If your looking for them they can't be missed. The ones that say you can't carry in Ashland, and the ones that say you CAN carry in kyova are at every main entrance, and about the size of a big poster. The town center doesn't actually have a sign with a gun on it, they have the no deadly weapon stipulation listed on their mall policy poster. But glad to hear you didn't get harassed, the mall security must not have noticed you were carrying, because they are total wanna be's, and would certainly stop you. I know of two on their security team that have tried numerous times to pass APD's pre employment PT test, and fail everytime. Or they could have actually hired some that don't wanna trample on folks rights..

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    Okay, this has been killing me reading this thread...
    State Law States...

    "In addition, Kentucky law does not prohibit the owners of private premises from excluding persons carrying firearms. Failure to vacate private premises when asked to do so could result in a criminal trespass charge."

    It's always required by the "Owner" of the property to have signs at every entrance, so if you walk to one entrace and there is a sign and you decide to try another entrance and no sign, you can walk in. Like the other day I walked in through JC Pennys no sign, walk into the mall no sign again and if told no guns permited I would of stated there is no sign stating otherwise and if they want to restrict OC'ing or CC'ing they are required to have signs posted at "every" entrace to the building.

    Like in Greenup the Old Court House you can carry all around it but at the Shierff's office there is a sign inside the courthouse leading to the office and outside leading to the office you can carry all throughout that building except the Sheriff's Office.

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxjivi05 View Post
    Okay, this has been killing me reading this thread...
    State Law States...

    It's always required by the "Owner" of the property to have signs at every entrance, so if you walk to one entrace and there is a sign and you decide to try another entrance and no sign, you can walk in. Like the other day I walked in through JC Pennys no sign, walk into the mall no sign again and if told no guns permited I would of stated there is no sign stating otherwise and if they want to restrict OC'ing or CC'ing they are required to have signs posted at "every" entrace to the building.

    .
    Not for sure where you got your info, but this doesn't sounds right. I don't believe that any business owner is required to post signs. If you walk in with a red shirt and the owner/manager asked you to leave because they don't allow red shirts....leave!! Last but not least, you say that "I would of stated there is no sign stating otherwise" (SIC)....Don't encourage these people to place up signs...Never give them that idea. I understand that such a response is natural..But never use the lack of a NGA sign as an argument.
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxjivi05 View Post
    Okay, this has been killing me reading this thread...
    State Law States...

    "In addition, Kentucky law does not prohibit the owners of private premises from excluding persons carrying firearms. Failure to vacate private premises when asked to do so could result in a criminal trespass charge."

    It's always required by the "Owner" of the property to have signs at every entrance, so if you walk to one entrace and there is a sign and you decide to try another entrance and no sign, you can walk in. Like the other day I walked in through JC Pennys no sign, walk into the mall no sign again and if told no guns permited I would of stated there is no sign stating otherwise and if they want to restrict OC'ing or CC'ing they are required to have signs posted at "every" entrace to the building.

    Like in Greenup the Old Court House you can carry all around it but at the Shierff's office there is a sign inside the courthouse leading to the office and outside leading to the office you can carry all throughout that building except the Sheriff's Office.
    I don't know where you have read that private establishments have to post "no weapons" signs in order to prohibit weapons, but it is false. A private establishment does not have to post a sign, but even if they do post signs on every door entering their establishment you can ignore it. The only time you must leave a place with your firearm is if you are asked to do so by management.

    KRS 237.115 states government bodies that ban the carrying of CONCEALED firearms INSIDE buildings under that government's control must post signs at every entrance, but this only applies to government buildings, and not private establishments. Even if a local government or other government agency has banned the carrying of concealed firearms in buildings they control, you can still carry concealed because no criminal penalty can be attached to an ordinance that prohibits the carrying of CONCEALED firearms in the buildings they control. You can always carry openly if you would rather obey a "no concealed weapons" sign on government buildings.

    If there is a sign on the Greenup county Sheriff's office that prohibits the carrying of firearms -- whether carried concealed or openly -- then it is illegal. I would go and speak to the sheriff and advise him of KRS 65.870 (take a copy with you) and ask him to remove the sign, or change it to where it only bans CONCEALED firearms. Tell the sheriff he is breaking the law by prohibiting carry in his office, and that in January he can be sued to have the sign changed, and also criminally charged with Official Misconduct. If he refuses then you can wait until January and have the courts force him to remove the sign.
    Last edited by KYGlockster; 10-14-2012 at 07:15 PM.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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