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Thread: Violence Policy Center goes ballistic!

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Violence Policy Center goes ballistic!

    Kristen Rand of the Violence Policy Center ramped things up a notch, claiming “Concealed carry permit holders don’t prevent mass shootings, they perpetrate them. They don’t support police, they shoot them.”
    http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-i...alerts_article
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Wonderful news. When the opposition goes nuts you've probably won or at least are very close.
    Don't believe any facts that I say! This is the internet and it is filled with lies and untruth. I invite you to look up for yourself the basic facts that my arguments might be based upon. This way we can have a discussion where logic and hints on where to find information are what is brought to the forum and people look up and verify facts for themselves.

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    When I was still young and stupid, a good friend told me that when the opposition's argument is failing, the only life line left for them is to introduce emotional diatribe. This is always a sure sign that you have beaten your opponent.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

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    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    Found this on one of their links:
    Linked to a .pdf w/larger pic:
    http://www.gunsmagazine.com/1957issues/G1257.pdf

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Badger Johnson; 11-06-2011 at 09:30 AM.
    A gun in a holster is better than one drawn and dispensing bullets. Concealed forces the latter. - ixtow

    Hi, I'm hypercritical. But I mean no harm, I just like to try to look deeply at life

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    First thing I noticed on that cover pic...finger off the trigger! Nice to see the safety factor in what I assume is a Hollywood pic.

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    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    When there is no logical counter argument; they then resort to name calling and manipulation of emotions.

    Geesh! Unfortunately, there are folks who suck it up like a Eureka Vacuum Cleaner!

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    Activist Member swinokur's Avatar
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    Can she give one scintilla of fact to support her ridiculous claim?

    I thought not


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    Campaign Veteran Dutch Uncle's Avatar
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    I will assume that Ms Rand was not the only author of the statements attributed to her. This kind of hysterical nonsense sounds just like Josh Sugarman, the real "brains" behind the VPC. I'd love for some investigative reporter to actually GO to the VPC. I'll bet its some "one flight up" office or two in a dingy building that caters to other splinter organizations.

    As others have noted, the use of frantic, terrified emotionalism is employed when facts run against them. Its straight from the old Bolshevik playbook: When the facts are against you, use emotion. If emotions are against you, use the facts. If facts AND emotion are against you, then resort to character assination or disruptive techniques so the debate can't proceed. A perfect example of the latter is seen in the following video. It is so obvious, it is almost humorous.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8zbv7I6cTs

    At least Sugarman/Rand aren't this bad yet. Just think, however, how astoundingly frustrated they must feel when they see virtually all the states in the union fall in line and accept some form of CC, despite all the "logic" and histrionics the left has resorted to. They've all used the same worn out caveats, the cassandra- like warnings of imminent disaster, the images of blood in the streets. Its amazing they even bother to talk anymore after all their arguments have fallen so flat every single time !!! What do you suppose the VPC membership numbers are like these days? As Daylen has said, we've probably won. Their last diatribe probably pulled in enough money to keep the lights and heat on for another month or so. When "the Onion" becomes the only paper to print their press releases, they're done. Stick a fork in 'em.

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    They seem to be based in Washington DC at one of two locations

    http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&su...-8&sa=N&tab=wl

    http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl
    Don't believe any facts that I say! This is the internet and it is filled with lies and untruth. I invite you to look up for yourself the basic facts that my arguments might be based upon. This way we can have a discussion where logic and hints on where to find information are what is brought to the forum and people look up and verify facts for themselves.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daylen View Post
    They seem to be based in Washington DC at one of two locations

    http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&su...-8&sa=N&tab=wl

    http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl
    Violence Policy Center
    1730 Rhode Island Avenue, NW
    Suite 1014
    Washington, DC 20036
    Phone: (202) 822 8200
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    Found this on one of their links:
    Linked to a .pdf w/larger pic:
    http://www.gunsmagazine.com/1957issues/G1257.pdf

    Love those old adverts...

    Where can I get a Ruger Mk I Target model .22 through the mail for $57.50? I'd sign up for that...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Violence Policy Center
    1730 Rhode Island Avenue, NW
    Suite 1014
    Washington, DC 20036
    Phone: (202) 822 8200
    Last time I was there (a few years ago) they had a security door. Not sure if it was bullet-resistant or not, but I'd bet is was. And no, I don't think they were paranoid for having it.

    stay safe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Kristen Rand of the Violence Policy Center ramped things up a notch, claiming “Concealed carry permit holders don’t prevent mass shootings, they perpetrate them. They don’t support police, they shoot them.”
    http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-i...alerts_article
    I MIGHT have given more value to the claim in the internal quote IF it had included the words "Carriers of ILLEGALLY CONCEALED FIREARMS" in place of "Concealed carry permit holders"!
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

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    Activist Member swinokur's Avatar
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    The crazy thing is Josh Sugarman is listed as an FFL on the BATFE web site and the address is the VPC address.

    Hypocrisy?

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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Hey, they've got to get guns into the hands of criminals somehow, don't they?

    Posted using my HTC Evo

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    Activist Member swinokur's Avatar
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    That is one of our talking points.

    criminals don't get their firearms from FFL's

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swinokur View Post
    The crazy thing is Josh Sugarman is listed as an FFL on the BATFE web site and the address is the VPC address.

    Hypocrisy?
    Make you a bet that Sugarmen is NOT fulfilling the legal requirements to retain a FFL.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Activist Member swinokur's Avatar
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    drop a dime? (figure of speech I don't know of any pay phones any more). especially a ten cent one
    Last edited by swinokur; 11-07-2011 at 08:28 AM.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swinokur View Post
    drop a dime? (figure of speech I don't know of any pay phones any more). especially a ten cent one
    A little addition info and others thoughts on Sugarmen and his FFL
    http://armsandthelaw.com/archives/20...uintessenc.php
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    There have been a handful of permit holders who have murdered or committed other crimes. It is impossible to amass a group of people and not expect some of them to screw up something. Even the CIA has had a couple of spies turned and the Army has had soldiers commit fratricide. Lets not give them ammo by denying the truth. I'm sure the percentage of criminal permit holders nationwide is statistically insignificant at best.

    There has been also one, ONE, police officer who committed a murder with a fully automatic rifle. I guess they'll be calling all police officers "machine gun killers" once us permit holders are vanquished.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

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    I read in one of my monthly gun magazines that leo's kill innocent people 8 times more than legally armed citizens, doctors are way past that percentage, cars, electricity, water, plastic bags are too, yet they want to attack firearms and the folks that legally carry them!?!? I do believe they have lost their argument, and now, more than ever, they are gonna lie, lie, lie, hoping someone will believe them. The good news is the percentage of Americans that own firearms is at an all time high, and the percentage of people that want handguns banned and so called " assault weapons," is at an all time low. More democrats own firearms than years previous as well. Everyone is coming around, the facts are on our side, More Guns=Less Crime is not just a feel good statement, it's the truth!

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark
    Last time I was there (a few years ago) they had a security door. Not sure if it was bullet-resistant or not, but I'd bet it was. And no, I don't think they were paranoid for having it.
    Why would they need a bullet-resistant door?
    DC prohibits firearms outside the home unless unloaded & encased, or carried by a LEO.
    That prevents gun crimes, right?
    [/sarcasm]

    Eventually, those who are rabid anti-rights types will be all alone in their self-imposed hellhole of fear while those who are only supporting them out of ignorance finally pay attention to the mountain of facts & realize they've been royally had.
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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    And this from the same folks whose website says: "Household Gun Ownership Hits New Low--Fewer Than One Out of Three American Households Has a Gun."

    In reality, it's been increasing. The problem, according to the American Firearms Organization, is "research into firearms and violent crime is fraught with difficulties, associated with limited data on gun ownership and use, firearms markets, and aggregation of crime data." - Source They report somewhere between 40% and 50% of all households have firearms, while the VPC says it's less than 33%.

    Therefore, right off the bat, the VPC is at least 7% off, and could be as high as 17%. That's not huge, but it raises the question as to why they're fudging the numbers. I suspect it's to try and drum up support, sort of a "We're winning! Contribute now and help us swing the door shut on this issue!"

    Phooey. The stats I've read put the percentage in the high 40s, and one study claimed it crested 50% in the last year or two.

    The point is, the VPC is willing to lie, so they've no credibility anyway. As the NRA states, "Studies for Congress, the Congressional Research Service, the Library of Congress, the National Institutes of Justice, the National Academy of Sciences, and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention have found no evidence that gun control reduces crime." - Source: Roth, Koper, et al., "Impact Evaluation of the Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act of 1994," 3/13/97, www.urban.org/url.cfm?ID=406797; Reedy, Koper, "Impact of handgun types on gun assault outcomes: a comparison of gun assaults involving semiautomatic pistols and revolvers," Injury Prevention 2003, http://ip.bmjjournals.com/cgi/reprint/9/2/151; Koper et al., "Report to the National Institute of Justice, An Updated Assessment of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban: Impacts on Gun Markets and Gun Violence, 1994-2003," 6/04, http://www.sas.upenn.edu/jerrylee/jl..._aw_final.pdf; Wm. J. Krouse, Congressional Research Service Report for Congress, "Semiautomatic Assault Weapons Ban," 12/16/04; Library of Congress, "Firearms Regulations in Various Foreign Countries," 5/98, LL98-3, 97-2010; Task Force on Community Preventive Service, "First Reports Evaluating the Effectiveness of Strategies for Preventing Violence: Firearms Laws," Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, 10/03/03, www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5214a2.htm; Nat`l. Research Council, "Firearms and Violence: A Critical Review," Nat`l. Academies Press, 2005, http://books.nap.edu/books/0309091241/html/index.html.

    I think those references are sufficiently objective, varied, and professional so as to blow any claim by the VPC to the contrary clean out of the water.

    No wonder the VPC is going ballistic (nuts). They're already nuts, married to an ideal, and out of touch with reality.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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