Home Defense Shotgon Loads

j4l · Nov 7, 2011

"there is a major difference in using dry phone books and ones well soaked in water. The latter are much more dense. "

Backfire, much? lol Ty, you prove my point- yes it ISNT as dense- all the more reason that most rounds that wont even pen the dry, probably arent going to pen even more dense materials.

And to dog-killer. sheetrock exterior walls? rly? are u bloody kidding me?

09jisaac · Nov 7, 2011

Daylen, I think what J4l is trying to say is that just because it will go through some wall materials don't mean it will breech all walls. It deffiently won't go through my exterior walls. I have 8'' thick wooden walls that would, if I was a guessing man, stop all up to and including a .308, the most powerful rifle I own.

Daylen · Nov 7, 2011

j4l said:
"there is a major difference in using dry phone books and ones well soaked in water. The latter are much more dense. "

Backfire, much? lol Ty, you prove my point- yes it ISNT as dense- all the more reason that most rounds that wont even pen the dry, probably arent going to pen even more dense materials.

And to dog-killer. sheetrock exterior walls? rly? are u bloody kidding me?

so the exterior walls on your home have no sheet rock? just bare cinderblocks? Do you live in prison? Most homes have sheet rock on the interior side of exterior walls.

Daylen · Nov 7, 2011

09jisaac said:
Daylen, I think what J4l is trying to say is that just because it will go through some wall materials don't mean it will breech all walls. It deffiently won't go through my exterior walls. I have 8'' thick wooden walls that would, if I was a guessing man, stop all up to and including a .308, the most powerful rifle I own.

If so then his sentence structure is very poor and statement very useless.

Old Grump · Nov 7, 2011

SFCRetired said:
What would you use, given the following types of residence:

1. Standalone house with brick exterior and drywall interior walls?
2. Standalone frame house with wood exterior and drywall interior?
3. Close neighbors (less than 50') with #1?
4. Close neighbors (less than 50') with #2?
4. Apartment/condominium with brick exterior and drywall interior walls?
5. Apartment/condominium with any exterior, drywall interior walls, but with masonry divisions between units?

In all of them I would be well armed with a 20 gauge and #4 shot minimum. BB shot maximum. At maximum range in any of those scenarios I doubt you would have more then 3 or 4 " spread with a fairly open choke and with my gun it would be a hole I can barely get my thumb through. Outside the house make mine 00 but indoors I don;t feel you need large shot to put a stop to a determined attacker. If he can take a load of #4 shot to his face at 20' he is a tougher man than I.

SFCRetired · Nov 7, 2011

Thanks for the input, guys. The gun is a Mossberg 88 in 12ga as mentioned in my earlier thread. For what it is worth, almost all of my experience has been with rifles and handguns. That is why I am asking what may seem like, to you, stupid question.

One comment on the "myths of packs" of wild dogs; many years ago, I was hired to eradicate a pack of feral dogs in southwestern Alabama. I was using a 30-06, was making darn good shots at a range of 150-200 yards, and still had a couple of those things try to get back up and come after me.

FWIW, there is only one person in my home who knows how to shoot and who will even touch a firearm. My wife is from China and won't shoot. I keep trying, though.

j4l · Nov 7, 2011

Daylen said:
so the exterior walls on your home have no sheet rock? just bare cinderblocks? Do you live in prison? Most homes have sheet rock on the interior side of exterior walls.

8" of re-enforced concrete,with brick on the exterior, but yes theres sheetrock on the INTERIOR- whatever that may have to do with anything even remotely connected to what we're discussing.. wtf difference will the sheetrock on the interior make if the harder materials are outside of it? If you're going to try to argue a point, at least try to make some kind of sense doing so..
:banghead:

Daylen · Nov 7, 2011

j4l said:
8" of re-enforced concrete,with brick on the exterior, but yes theres sheetrock on the INTERIOR- whatever that may have to do with anything even remotely connected to what we're discussing.. wtf difference will the sheetrock on the interior make if the harder materials are outside of it? If you're going to try to argue a point, at least try to make some kind of sense doing so..
:banghead:

8" re-enforced concrete? and brick? Living in a bunker?

My point is that most houses are NOT built that tough, not even close.

j4l · Nov 7, 2011

Since you mention it, yes, it was once a military bunker, actually lol.
Long story short,- (I didnt have it built-it was built in the 50's) -it was actually once 3 seperate buildings- a previous owner joined the 3 buildings into one, bricked over the exterior, and put a more typical framed roof over it. Makes for some hellacious insulation during winter though..

When I have some daylight tommorow, Ill take some pics to post- none of my doors or windows are of any common/standard sizes, if I have to replace one (or blinds,etc.) they have to be fabricated from scratch to fit. All my window sills and door sills are 8"-10" deep lol.

So, no, MY place is not of normal construction, by any means. But, most homes I lived in, in the past, were at least concrete or brick on the exterior walls.. (not siding/framing)

skidmark · Nov 9, 2011

JTHunter said:
From what I know of .410's, their barrels are too small to use 000 Buck, and the 2 3/4" shell only has 3 pellets of 00 Buck.

I think you have that backwards. I'm sitting here holding a 2 3/4" shell for my .410 and it's clearly labled as 3 pellets of 000 Buck. 00 Buck is larger than 000 Buck.

If somebody is breaking in your house, over-penetration is the LEAST of your worries. You want to be able to completely incapacitate anybody trying forcible entry.

While I agree that you ceretainly want to stop the attack, you need to be concerned about the possibility of over-penetration or your ammunition breaching the walls. If whatever you shoot goes through the BG and penetrates the walls you are responsible for whatever it hits. If you miss the BG and it penetrates the walls you are responsible for whatever it hits. We are all well aware of the felony murder rule but that only applies in criminal cases. Civil cases will only care about who launched the ammunition.

I have a 12 ga. Side-by-Side with double triggers which allows me to fire both barrels at the same time. One side, with the Improved Cylinder choke, has a 2 3/4" 00 Buck (9 pellets) while the other (with a Skeet #1 choke) has a 3" - #4 Buck with 40 pellets.
Imagine a 49 pellet "cloud" coming at you.

At 15 feet there is a lot that the 00 Buck will penetrate. The #4 Buck will suffice with a lower risk of over-penetration or breaching the exterior.

If that isn't enough, there's an AK clone on the wall rack above that with a 40 rd banana and a 38 in the dresser.

Now that's a strange combination to rely on - especially the .38. Seems to me that even at +P+ everything else you have listed is more powerful than a .38.

stay safe.

since9 · Nov 13, 2011

JTHunter said:
...and as accurate at 25 ft. as a pea-shooter...

I thought we long ago established that just about everything more directive than a flash bang is sufficient at hitting a room-sized target (0 - 30 feet) with the accuracy depending mostly on the individual point the firearm.

Skid - in looking at a Winchester ammunition chart I have here, it lists #4 Buck as being 0.24" dia., 0 Buck at 0.32", 00 Buck at 0.33", and 000 Buck at 0.36".

FYI[/size][/font][/QUOTE]

Whabba, whereber, who?

(slaps forhead)

09jisaac · Nov 13, 2011

JTHunter said:
From what I know of .410's, their barrels are too small to use 000 Buck, and the 2 3/4" shell only has 3 pellets of 00 Buck.
If somebody is breaking in your house, over-penetration is the LEAST of your worries. You want to be able to completely incapacitate anybody trying forcible entry.
I have a 12 ga. Side-by-Side with double triggers which allows me to fire both barrels at the same time. One side, with the Improved Cylinder choke, has a 2 3/4" 00 Buck (9 pellets) while the other (with a Skeet #1 choke) has a 3" - #4 Buck with 40 pellets.
Imagine a 49 pellet "cloud" coming at you.
If that isn't enough, there's an AK clone on the wall rack above that with a 40 rd banana and a 38 in the dresser.

I have to agree with you on this one. "Honey, I "incapacitated" the threat, but I killed/wounded the kid(s) ." <<< That don't matter? I know that from the angle I would be shooting at anyone near my front door I would be shooting down into the basement if it over penetrates. No one should be in the basement at night. But would that make me feel ANY better if my mom was down there for some odd reason?

Or how about if your neighbor seen an armed man breaking into your house? He's already called the police but brings his gun to help you. You shoot through the BG, through your outside wall into your concerned neighbor. He was only there for you. Would it make you feel very good? You had NO way of knowing he was out there, you couldn't calculate that. You didn't miss your target. You did EVERYTHING right, but thought that over penetration was the "least of your worries worries".

So maybe over penetration should rank among the top of the list.

flb_78 · Nov 13, 2011

I have a Mossy 590 12ga loaded with 9 rounds of Fiocchi low recoil 00 buck.

HKcarrier · Nov 14, 2011

I checked out those PDX rounds with the 3 shot and 1 slug.. they seem like they would be devastating... but I was really worried about over-penetration...

Probably should buy a sheet of drywall and see what happens... I'm thinking I would shoot out of the house with a BB gun...

rodbender · Nov 15, 2011

I use 12 guge shorts. They are made by Aguila and are about 1 3/8 inches in length. Shot are 7 #4 buck and 4 #1 buck in the same shell. They also have slugs that are 7/8 ounce. They load and eject OK in my Mossberg 500A. It also holds a hell of a lot of them.

Daylen · Nov 15, 2011

rodbender said:
I use 12 guge shorts. They are made by Aguila and are about 1 3/8 inches in length. Shot are 7 #4 buck and 4 #1 buck in the same shell. They also have slugs that are 7/8 ounce. They load and eject OK in my Mossberg 500A. It also holds a hell of a lot of them.

Wow, that would let me hold way more than 10, I wonder if that would piss off Kalifonia libs...

rodbender · Nov 15, 2011

Daylen said:
Wow, that would let me hold way more than 10, I wonder if that would piss off Kalifonia libs...

Probably. But then, it doesn't take much.

HKcarrier · Nov 16, 2011

rodbender said:
I use 12 guge shorts. They are made by Aguila and are about 1 3/8 inches in length. Shot are 7 #4 buck and 4 #1 buck in the same shell. They also have slugs that are 7/8 ounce. They load and eject OK in my Mossberg 500A. It also holds a hell of a lot of them.

Interesting.. I"m going to check these out...

Grapeshot · Nov 16, 2011

Not for use in semi-auto shotguns. Modification would render it unreliable for use with regular shells.

"We do not know of any semi-automatic shotguns functioning with minishells."
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/73...n-12-gauge-1-3-4-7-8-oz-rifled-slug-box-of-20

j4l · Nov 16, 2011

Interesting, though.. these little shells would probably be just about right from a Side-side/coach gun or break-action single/double, etc.. and recoil reduction in a coach gun would be welcome , indeed, i'd think..

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