Steeler-gal
Regular Member
I understand that the law in VA doesn't prohibit from OCing in Church. I'm curious to know how many of you OC in church. I haven't yet. I have been looking around and don't see anyone in my church OCing. Do you OC?
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OC in Church
- Thread starter Steeler-gal
- Start date
ProShooter
Regular Member
Virginia law does prohibit it.
§ 18.2-283. Carrying dangerous weapon to place of religious worship.
If any person carry any gun, pistol, bowie knife, dagger or other dangerous weapon, without good and sufficient reason, to a place of worship while a meeting for religious purposes is being held at such place he shall be guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor.
Now, the AG has opined that self defense is a "good and sufficient reason", but again, that is only his opinion (which does carry some weight). I would think a judge would follow along, but......
§ 18.2-283. Carrying dangerous weapon to place of religious worship.
If any person carry any gun, pistol, bowie knife, dagger or other dangerous weapon, without good and sufficient reason, to a place of worship while a meeting for religious purposes is being held at such place he shall be guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor.
Now, the AG has opined that self defense is a "good and sufficient reason", but again, that is only his opinion (which does carry some weight). I would think a judge would follow along, but......
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Steeler-gal
Regular Member
Oh, wow. I stand corrected. Thanks!
No wonder I don't see anyone CCing.
No wonder I don't see anyone CCing.
wylde007
Regular Member
That's not a blanket prohibition, it's a conditional prohibition.
"Good and sufficient reason" being subjective (as you imply) does not mean that the AG's opinion is flawed or invalid, only that you should probably consider the character of your congregation and your pastor, perhaps going as far as attending a meeting of the elders/vestry and asking their opinion of the practice.
Because the only way you're going to get nicked for it is if someone calls the cops on you.
"Good and sufficient reason" being subjective (as you imply) does not mean that the AG's opinion is flawed or invalid, only that you should probably consider the character of your congregation and your pastor, perhaps going as far as attending a meeting of the elders/vestry and asking their opinion of the practice.
Because the only way you're going to get nicked for it is if someone calls the cops on you.
TFred
Regular Member
Or if there happens to be an anti-gun cop in attendance with you at the same time...
TFred
thebigsd
Founder's Club Member
Somebody just needs to do it and get arrested. Then a court can decide what "good and sufficient" reason is since the legislature doesn't care to define it. By the way, I am not suggesting anyone volunteer. I am not religious, but my wife is and we took our son to a church-sponsored festival on Halloween. I OCed without incident.
wylde007
Regular Member
jmelvin
Founder's Club Member
I've OCed at mine, but not while services are going on. The only other OC I've seen at church during services was by the VASP and local yokels who were in attendance on their way to or from duty.
ProShooter
Regular Member
I can think of a number of times where someone may be on duty in uniform in church. Some I have even done myself.
wylde007
Regular Member
Funeral?
And let's not forget that the "prohibition" is specifically confined to during worship service, not for ancillary uses of the property and/or building.
Badger Johnson
Regular Member
Sitting there Sunday just after they collected offering, and thought to myself 'holy cr*p, it would be bad to kill some burglar in church...'.
VApatriot
Regular Member
Didn't the AG issue an opinion just this year that said that self-defense/personal protect = "good and sufficient reason" to carry in church during a service?
That being said, it is may opinion, as well as the opinion of at least a few others on this forum, that OC might distract people from the service, and it would therefore be best to CC, if possible. Some might say that this is "giving in" to people who are uncomfortable around guns, but, when it comes to being at church on Sunday morning, I see it as being willing to respect others, so that we can all focus on what it is that we are there for in the first place.
That being said, it is may opinion, as well as the opinion of at least a few others on this forum, that OC might distract people from the service, and it would therefore be best to CC, if possible. Some might say that this is "giving in" to people who are uncomfortable around guns, but, when it comes to being at church on Sunday morning, I see it as being willing to respect others, so that we can all focus on what it is that we are there for in the first place.
wylde007
Regular Member
Yes, and James mentioned it above.
That being said, I would tend to agree with your assertion except for the fact that my personal "feelings" on the matter should not impact someone else's RIGHT to do as they please.
I have to stick to that tenet because I demand it of everyone else.
Church is a place for worship and if you worship with a bunch of ninnies and namby-pambies (as most of us probably do, unfortunately) then you do what you feel is best to preserve the sanctity of the cage you built for the Lord.
That being said, I would tend to agree with your assertion except for the fact that my personal "feelings" on the matter should not impact someone else's RIGHT to do as they please.
I have to stick to that tenet because I demand it of everyone else.
Church is a place for worship and if you worship with a bunch of ninnies and namby-pambies (as most of us probably do, unfortunately) then you do what you feel is best to preserve the sanctity of the cage you built for the Lord.
Virginia law does prohibit it.
§ 18.2-283. Carrying dangerous weapon to place of religious worship.
If any person carry any gun, pistol, bowie knife, dagger or other dangerous weapon, without good and sufficient reason, to a place of worship while a meeting for religious purposes is being held at such place he shall be guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor.
Now, the AG has opined that self defense is a "good and sufficient reason", but again, that is only his opinion (which does carry some weight). I would think a judge would follow along, but......
The good and sufficient reasons do abound.
http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum...ch-shootings-11-years-comprehensive-list.html
I do admit that I CC in a house of worship as a personal practical choice.
thebigsd
Founder's Club Member
Does OC distract people watching movies, eating dinner, walking down the street, etc? No, so why should it be any different at a church. People won't get used to it unless people do it.
ProShooter
Regular Member
Yes, among other times.
No, the prohibition applies to a time when a meeting for religious purposes is taking place.
Confession
Choir practice
Pastor/deacons discussing an upcoming service
I'm sure there's more.
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wylde007
Regular Member
I believe you are giving a MUCH broader meaning to "religious" purposes (read: worship) than was intended... HOWEVER, I would not put it past LE nor the courts to interpret at will and place the burden on the citizen.
ProShooter
Regular Member
I don't think its broad at all. If 10 people get together for choir practice, is that not a "meeting for religious purposes" ? Nothing says that they have to go through a whole service. It simply says a meeting for religious purposes. Common sense would dictate that my examples count.
MilProGuy
Regular Member
Virginia law does prohibit it.
§ 18.2-283. Carrying dangerous weapon to place of religious worship.
If any person carry any gun, pistol, bowie knife, dagger or other dangerous weapon, without good and sufficient reason, to a place of worship while a meeting for religious purposes is being held at such place he shall be guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor.
.
This is pretty much the way it is in Mississippi too.
mobeewan
Regular Member
How would you know if they were "CCing" or did you mean "OCing"?