OC in Church

1245A Defender · Nov 8, 2011

Well,,,

ProShooter said:
Virginia law does prohibit it.

§ 18.2-283. Carrying dangerous weapon to place of religious worship.

If any person carry any gun, pistol, bowie knife, dagger or other dangerous weapon, without good and sufficient reason, to a place of worship while a meeting for religious purposes is being held at such place he shall be guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor.

Now, the AG has opined that self defense is a "good and sufficient reason", but again, that is only his opinion (which does carry some weight). I would think a judge would follow along, but......

MilProGuy said:
This is pretty much the way it is in Mississippi too.

millproguy has been schooled in the mississippi forum about LOTS of things!

he should know by now, that it is NOT pretty much as it is in mississippi!

read this thread and see that it is NOT ILLEGAL to open carry in church in mississippi!

of coarse that fact will not help milproguy because he will not open carry.

[h=3]How many are active here in Mississippi? Answer Up

[/h]

milproguy does not like to accept the knowledge that he seeks, and receives from forum members.

SouthernBoy · Nov 8, 2011

Since the phrase "good and sufficient reason" is not definitive, then it is going to be left up to open interpretation by whomever: police, a judge, and attorney, etc. I think most folks on this site would consider that the protection of their lives and those of their loved ones more than suffices for "good and sufficient reason".

So since this phraseology is so nebulous and open ended, then why not just CC in these surrounds and be done with it? You would clearly not be definitively breaking any laws, only interpretively. So not seen is not an issue.

Grapeshot · Nov 8, 2011

ProShooter said:
Virginia law does prohibit it.

§ 18.2-283. Carrying dangerous weapon to place of religious worship.

If any person carry any gun, pistol, bowie knife, dagger or other dangerous weapon, without good and sufficient reason, to a place of worship while a meeting for religious purposes is being held at such place he shall be guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor.

Now, the AG has opined that self defense is a "good and sufficient reason", but again, that is only his opinion (which does carry some weight). I would think a judge would follow along, but......

MilProGuy said:
This is pretty much the way it is in Mississippi too.

Cite please.

wylde007 · Nov 8, 2011

ProShooter said:
Common sense would dictate that my examples count.

I did not disagree with the possibility that your perception would be the one with which an officer or a fellow churchgoer might side.

If anything, this exchange only further illustrates that "definitions" are not definitive. In a brief search of the state code I could find no entry for "religious purposes" but I would not personally consider choir practice nor a board meeting as such.

Perhaps we should ask the AG to issue an opinion on that, too.

MilProGuy · Nov 8, 2011

Grapeshot said:
Cite please.

Common sense.

If it is illegal to carry a handgun / firearm into a house of worship concealed, it is illegal to openly carry a handgun / firearm into a house of worship openly.

ProShooter · Nov 8, 2011

MilProGuy said:
Common sense.

If it is illegal to carry a handgun / firearm into a house of worship concealed, it is illegal to openly carry a handgun / firearm into a house of worship openly.

Oh boy.

I take it that you weren't around for the Virginia "restaurant and club" mess....

peter nap · Nov 8, 2011

MilProGuy said:
Common sense.

If it is illegal to carry a handgun / firearm into a house of worship concealed, it is illegal to openly carry a handgun / firearm into a house of worship openly.

Is it illegal though?
I think Grapeshot wanted a cite on Mississippi law that makes it illegal.
Common sense and the law are rarely acquainted!

skidmark · Nov 8, 2011

MilProGuy said:
Common sense.

If it is illegal to carry a handgun / firearm into a house of worship concealed, it is illegal to openly carry a handgun / firearm into a house of worship openly.

For once he may be right. I'm no expert on Mississippi law but I could not find anything prohibiting the carry of a firearm into a place of worship - OC or CC. Of course I may have just not looked in the rigt place.

stay safe.

Grapeshot · Nov 8, 2011

Originally Posted by ProShooter
Virginia law does prohibit it.

§ 18.2-283. Carrying dangerous weapon to place of religious worship.

If any person carry any gun, pistol, bowie knife, dagger or other dangerous weapon, without good and sufficient reason, to a place of worship while a meeting for religious purposes is being held at such place he shall be guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor.

Originally Posted by MilProGuy
This is pretty much the way it is in Mississippi too.

Originally Posted by Grapeshot
Cite please.

MilProGuy said:
Common sense.

If it is illegal to carry a handgun / firearm into a house of worship concealed, it is illegal to openly carry a handgun / firearm into a house of worship openly.

Not exactly common sense at all. Frequently CC laws and those referencing OC, or lacking such reference, are not parallel in application, i.e. until recently one could not CC in an establishment selling alcohol by the drink in Va, but OC was legal.

Does Mississippi have such a law(s) pertaining to carrying in churches/houses of worship.? That is the site requested specifically.

Steeler-gal · Nov 8, 2011

mobeewan said:
How would you know if they were "CCing" or did you mean "OCing"?

Yeah, I obviously meant OCing. Just a typo.
:banghead:

skidmark · Nov 8, 2011

Dammit, Grape! Read post #28 before posting #29.:banghead::cuss::banghead:

It's bad enough the guy was right. Don't make me repeat it.

stay safe.

Grapeshot · Nov 8, 2011

skidmark said:
Dammit, Grape! Read post #28 before posting #29.:banghead::cuss::banghead:

It's bad enough the guy was right. Don't make me repeat it.

stay safe.

Read it. Understood it.

You said you couldn't find anything.

He said/implied that it was illegal.

MilProGuy · Nov 8, 2011

Grapeshot said:
Does Mississippi have such a law(s) pertaining to carrying in churches/houses of worship.? That is the site requested specifically.

(13) No license issued pursuant to this section shall authorize any person to carry a concealed pistol or revolver into any place of nuisance as defined in Section 95-3-1, Mississippi Code of 1972; any police, sheriff or highway patrol station; any detention facility, prison or jail; any courthouse; any courtroom...

...any polling place; any meeting place of the governing body of any governmental entity; any meeting of the Legislature or a committee thereof;

any public park unless for the purpose of participating in any authorized firearms-related activity;

any school, college or professional athletic event not related to firearms;...any elementary or secondary school facility; any junior college, community college, college or university facility unless for the purpose of participating in any authorized firearms-related activity;

...inside the passenger terminal of any airport, except that no person shall be prohibited from carrying any legal firearm into the terminal if the firearm is encased for shipment, for purposes of checking such firearm as baggage to be lawfully transported on any aircraft;

any church or other place of worship; or any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law...

(This is, indeed a common sense issue.)

skidmark · Nov 8, 2011

1) Obviously, I missed it.

2) a citation includes a link to where the information comes from so that others can independently read and analyze the source document. The mere cutting and pasting of words utterly fails - especially when I know nothing except that section (13) was where I should have looked. Section (13) of what remains a mystery to me and everyone else.

Please take a do-over and get it right.

stay safe.

MilProGuy · Nov 8, 2011

http://www.mscode.com/free/statutes/45/009/0101.htm

grylnsmn · Nov 8, 2011

MilProGuy said:
(13) No license issued pursuant to this section shall authorize any person to carry a concealed pistol or revolver into any place of nuisance as defined in Section 95-3-1, Mississippi Code of 1972; any police, sheriff or highway patrol station; any detention facility, prison or jail; any courthouse; any courtroom...

...any polling place; any meeting place of the governing body of any governmental entity; any meeting of the Legislature or a committee thereof;

any public park unless for the purpose of participating in any authorized firearms-related activity;

any school, college or professional athletic event not related to firearms;...any elementary or secondary school facility; any junior college, community college, college or university facility unless for the purpose of participating in any authorized firearms-related activity;

...inside the passenger terminal of any airport, except that no person shall be prohibited from carrying any legal firearm into the terminal if the firearm is encased for shipment, for purposes of checking such firearm as baggage to be lawfully transported on any aircraft;

any church or other place of worship; or any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law...

(This is, indeed a common sense issue.)

Google suggests you copied that from here.

However, your logic fails you. That section only says that a license to carry does not authorize you to do any of those things. It does not say that carrying in any of those locations is prohibited.

For example, Virginia law states:

18.2-308 said:
O. The granting of a concealed handgun permit shall not thereby authorize the possession of any handgun or other weapon on property or in places where such possession is otherwise prohibited by law or is prohibited by the owner of private property.

Just because the law doesn't authorize the possession of a firearm on private property doesn't mean that it prohibits it.

Please cite the Mississippi law that actually prohibits the carrying of a firearm in a church.

MilProGuy · Nov 8, 2011

Respectfully, I already have.

Grapeshot · Nov 8, 2011

MilProGuy said:
http://www.mscode.com/free/statutes/45/009/0101.htm

Interesting.

Was modified/amended per 97-37-7 (New Wording as Per House Bill 506) and recently signed by the Governor.
……. A person licensed under Section 45-9-101 etc. refers to those with permits and carrying concealed, but absent is any reference to simply carrying or more pertinently to OC. The absence of a law forbidding something normally leaves it legal by default/omission.

scouser · Nov 8, 2011

With respect to all here, I'm wondering what the relevence of Mississippi's law is in Virginia. Might as well quote the laws of somewhere like Portugal, which I have no clue about because I'm not in Portugal.
I said this only last week, no one can expect another place to exist by the rules they knew of where they came from in order to make them happy, it's up to them to exist by the rules of where they are. If those rules are different from what they grew up with or are used to, then it's their responsibility to adapt.

Grapeshot · Nov 8, 2011

scouser said:
With respect to all here, I'm wondering what the relevence of Mississippi's law is in Virginia. Might as well quote the laws of somewhere like Portugal, which I have no clue about because I'm not in Portugal.
I said this only last week, no one can expect another place to exist by the rules they knew of where they came from in order to make them happy, it's up to them to exist by the rules of where they are. If those rules are different from what they grew up with or are used to, then it's their responsibility to adapt.

Just comparing the similarities and differences in the state laws - some obvious, others not so much so.

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