Did this clerk have the right to shoot?

Cgm2414 · Nov 7, 2011

http://www.wkyt.com/home/headlines/Robbery_suspect_shot_and_killed_133347893.html

HTML:

"Police say around 2:30 a.m. Monday, 20-year-old James Hensley walked into a Shell station, near I-75 Exit 59 in Mount Vernon, armed with a knife.

Police say Hensley stole money and cigarettes from the clerk. Police say the clerk then chased after Hensley.

"The clerk at that point pursued the suspect out of the store, and shots were fired," Sgt. Tom Atkin of Kentucky State Police said.

Hensley was hit, and later pronounced dead."

Badger Johnson · Nov 7, 2011

Authorities give a bit broader power of discretion if a business owner shoots a burglar, I think.

Was it a righteous shoot. Heck, no going solely by your description.

UnfetteredMight · Nov 7, 2011

Well the clerk, being an employee, had the legal justification for a PHYSICAL confrontation. If the thief then escalated it by trying to defend himself with that knife and if the clerk didn't have the gun already drawn, then yeah its a justified shoot

This is of course a strict reading of the law and an ideal transpiration of events.

Johnburns15 · Nov 7, 2011

There are too many unanswered questions with the investigation still going on.
Did the assailant say he was going to come back?
Threaten to kill the clerk as he was leaving?
Did the clerk shoot him in the back after the assailant had already put the knife away?

There are just too many possibilities that only the clerk know about, or possibly other witnesses

flb_78 · Nov 7, 2011

Im not familiar enough with Kentucky law to give a legal answer, but my personal feelings are it was a good shoot.

Badger Johnson · Nov 7, 2011

OMG, the outcry of 'He was a sweet guy'. Yeah, I'm a sweet guy - I can tell because I ain't threatening to kill someone with a knife over cigs. He's a felon and a thief and was willing to take a life for cigarettes and ho-hos.

mark-in-texas · Nov 7, 2011

Retired cop told me this one..."It's always best when the DA has only one story to listen to." If the clerk was in 'reasonable fear of grave bodily harm or death' then yes he was justified. He may have followed the perp out in the hope of getting a vehicle discription and/or direction of travel to better help the cops apprehend the suspect and was turned on. Don't know, wasn't there. Not my place to judge another man's fear.

MilProGuy · Nov 7, 2011

From the little info that is given, I'd say once the perp was out of the store that's when he was no longer a threat to the clerk.

09jisaac · Nov 7, 2011

MilProGuy said:
From the little info that is given, I'd say once the perp was out of the store that's when he was no longer a threat to the clerk.

I would argue that until the perp had a change of heart he would always be a threat.

Badger Johnson · Nov 7, 2011

I would argue that the clerk is a complete moron for chasing a single guy with a knife out of a store and shooting at him.

1. Backstop?
2. A knife is not a threat when the guy is out the door and running away
3. The store is prob insured
4. The knife guy and his family won't be gunning for you if you don't run out and shoot him in the back

Now, if the guy was using a gun, the story is different - he's always a threat if he has a clear shot and can turn and snap-shoot you.

Johnburns15 · Nov 7, 2011

Or it could have just been his adrenaline and emotions mixing, causing him to do something without thinking about what he's doing.

But I DON'T like the responses from some of the citizens from his town, " he just had a knife he shouldn't have shot him". In my opinion, he threatened the life of another human for a couple dollars and a couple packs of cigarettes. He got what he deserved. The next time he tried robbing a store and the clerk told him he wasn't going to give up the money he could've stabbed the clerk.

09jisaac · Nov 7, 2011

Badger Johnson said:
I would argue that the clerk is a complete moron for chasing a single guy with a knife out of a store and shooting at him.

1. Backstop?
2. A knife is not a threat when the guy is out the door and running away
3. The store is prob insured
4. The knife guy and his family won't be gunning for you if you don't run out and shoot him in the back

Now, if the guy was using a gun, the story is different - he's always a threat if he has a clear shot and can turn and snap-shoot you.

I didn't say he was justified for shooting. I was saying he was still a threat. Maybe not to the clerk, but to someone. And it don't matter if the store is insured, he lost something that day that he would never have gotten back if he didn't do anything.

And if I was the clerk I would sleep well knowing that I did the right thing, no matter if I got sued.

Badger Johnson · Nov 7, 2011

09jisaac said:
I didn't say he was justified for shooting. I was saying he was still a threat. Maybe not to the clerk, but to someone. And it don't matter if the store is insured, he lost something that day that he would never have gotten back if he didn't do anything.

And if I was the clerk I would sleep well knowing that I did the right thing, no matter if I got sued.

I can tell you've never shot and killed anyone. If you sleep well then you're a sociopath. HTH.

MilProGuy · Nov 7, 2011

Badger Johnson said:
I would argue that the clerk is a complete moron for chasing a single guy with a knife out of a store and shooting at him.

1. Backstop?
2. A knife is not a threat when the guy is out the door and running away
3. The store is prob insured
4. The knife guy and his family won't be gunning for you if you don't run out and shoot him in the back

Now, if the guy was using a gun, the story is different - he's always a threat if he has a clear shot and can turn and snap-shoot you.

Ah...the voice of reason...

Thank you.

09jisaac · Nov 7, 2011

Badger Johnson said:
I can tell you've never shot and killed anyone. If you sleep well then you're a sociopath. HTH.

You're right, I have never shot anyone. But I'm a sociopath for my sense of justice? Then are we all if we think that people need to get what they deserve? When someone pulls a weapon on you, and takes something from you, you lose more than what they got. You will never be the same.

brekay · Nov 7, 2011

MilProGuy said:
From the little info that is given, I'd say once the perp was out of the store that's when he was no longer a threat to the clerk.

So he wasnt a threat to the clerk anymore(that night) but what happens tomorrow or next week when he needs more money or runs out of cigarettes? He will do the same thing. so he would have been a threat to someone else. i know i would sleep a lot better knowing that he wasnt going to come back or do the samething to someone else. Because they always do once they know they can get away with it they have no problem doing it again. and you never know by the clerk shooting that guy he might have saved someone elses life.

09jisaac · Nov 7, 2011

brekay said:
So he wasnt a threat to the clerk anymore(that night) but what happens tomorrow or next week when he needs more money or runs out of cigarettes? He will do the same thing. so he would have been a threat to someone else. i know i would sleep a lot better knowing that he wasnt going to come back or do the samething to someone else. Because they always do once they know they can get away with it they have no problem doing it again. and you never know by the clerk shooting that guy he might have saved someone elses life.

You could sleep knowing someone shot that guy, a guy with little reguards to the law and fellow humans??? What a sociopath!!! My opinion, thats just the cost of doing business for him. He knew what he was getting into before he pulled that knife, and deserved what he got. Was it in the confines of the law? No. Could he have let it be? Yes. But I don't want to only have what others don't want to take from me, I would rather have what others CANT take from me.

brekay · Nov 7, 2011

09jisaac said:
You could sleep knowing someone shot that guy, a guy with little reguards to the law and fellow humans??? What a sociopath!!! My opinion, thats just the cost of doing business for him. He knew what he was getting into before he pulled that knife, and deserved what he got. Was it in the confines of the law? No. Could he have let it be? Yes. But I don't want to only have what others don't want to take from me, I would rather have what others CANT take from me.

I could sleep just fine knowing that another bad person was off the street. thats one less thing good people have to worry about. Maybe if enough people start standing up for themselves and what they have the world wouldnt have so many criminals. becaue putting them in jail for a few days does not make them change.

MilProGuy · Nov 7, 2011

brekay said:
So he wasnt a threat to the clerk anymore(that night) but what happens tomorrow or next week when he needs more money or runs out of cigarettes? He will do the same thing. so he would have been a threat to someone else. i know i would sleep a lot better knowing that he wasnt going to come back or do the samething to someone else. Because they always do once they know they can get away with it they have no problem doing it again. and you never know by the clerk shooting that guy he might have saved someone elses life.

Back in the 1970s, a store owner shot a fellow in the back and killed him as he was fleeing down the sidewalk on Main Street after stealing a roll of rag bologna from his store.

I saw the store owner cleaning up the blood about an hour after the police left, and I've always been haunted by the sickening smell and sight of all that unnecessary bloodshed and the taking of a man's life who was no threat to the store owner, and whose crime did not match the punishment.

MAC702 · Nov 7, 2011

MilProGuy said:
...crime did not match the punishment.

When punishments start to match crimes, there will be a LOT less crime.

Did this clerk have the right to shoot?

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