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Thread: School Parking Lot ?

  1. #1
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    School Parking Lot ?

    Go or no go for a licensed CCW.

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    No go.

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    No go if you're talking a school providing one or more grades in 1-12.

    tech school or college, no problemo.
    Last edited by Teej; 11-08-2011 at 12:36 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dobb View Post
    Go or no go for a licensed CCW.
    @@@@@
    Last edited by Dobb; 01-27-2012 at 10:06 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dobb View Post
    Kid is in the early childhood center, which is attached to the church.
    The church and school are divided by the parking lot.

    So if I entered and exited through the church without going onto the
    Parking lot would this be ok ?
    That sure sounds to me like the church would be considered "on school grounds".

    I would say 100% no if they share the same street address.

    If it's not...I'd say you've found a fairly unique situation and while I would lean (heavily) towards "no", I can't say so with confidence.

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Unless the properties are completely separate, I would have to say no go, especially if it is called a church and school.
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    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    Wisconsin GFSZ is 1-12 not K-12 in case that matters in your situation. Someone cite it please, on my phone...sorry. :-)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brass Magnet View Post
    Wisconsin GFSZ is 1-12 not K-12 in case that matters in your situation. Someone cite it please, on my phone...sorry. :-)
    Already on it.


    948.605 titled Gun-free school zones

    948.605(b) "School" has the meaning given in s. 948.61 (1) (b).
    948.61(1)(b) "School" means a public school, parochial or private school, or tribal school, as defined in s. 115.001 (15m), which provides an educational program for one or more grades between grades 1 and 12 and which is commonly known as an elementary school, middle school, junior high school, senior high school, or high school.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teej View Post
    That sure sounds to me like the church would be considered "on school grounds".

    I would say 100% no if they share the same street address.

    If it's not...I'd say you've found a fairly unique situation and while I would lean (heavily) towards "no", I can't say so with confidence.
    Sure sound to me like the school is "on church grounds". The church owns and runs the school, the school does not own or run the church. The school would not exist with out the church, but the church would exist without the school.

    I have no idea what the means in relation to the GFSZ, I just wanted to point that out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by E6chevron View Post
    Already on it.
    Thanks!
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    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brass Magnet View Post
    Thanks!
    I had this debate(kinda) with MKEgal on FB and in one statute it was 1-12 and in another it was K-12. She might remember that I can cite it as resourceful as she is. My braind is fried today.

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    I'll happily correct myself.

    WI statute:
    948.61(1)(b) "School" means a public school, parochial or private school, or tribal school, as defined in s. 115.001 (15m), which provides an educational program for one or more grades between grades 1 and 12 and which is commonly known as an elementary school, middle school, junior high school, senior high school, or high school.
    Federal GFSZ defers to state law for definition of school.
    18 U.S.C. 921(25) The term “school zone” means— (A) in, or on the grounds of, a public, parochial or private school; or (B) within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of a public, parochial or private school. (26) The term “school” means a school which provides elementary or secondary education, as determined under State law.
    Last edited by Teej; 11-08-2011 at 12:35 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BROKENSPROKET View Post

    I have no idea what the means in relation to the GFSZ, I just wanted to point that out.
    Agreed. It'll may well make a difference.

    (c) "School premises" means any school building, grounds, recreation area or athletic field or any other property owned, used or operated for school administration.
    If the school doesn't use any part of the church for grades 1-12, the OP should be OK by the letter of the law.

    In practice...uh...IANAL.
    Last edited by Teej; 11-08-2011 at 12:58 AM.

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    early childhood center sounds like a daycare not a school. My wife works at an early childhood center, and they posted their building, but I wouldnt think it falls under the school definition... or am I wrong?

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    Quote Originally Posted by apierce918 View Post
    early childhood center sounds like a daycare not a school. My wife works at an early childhood center, and they posted their building, but I wouldnt think it falls under the school definition... or am I wrong?
    Sounds like a daycare.

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    948.61(3) (3) This section does not apply to any person who: ....
    948.61(3)(e) (e) Drives a motor vehicle in which a dangerous weapon is located onto school premises for school-sanctioned purposes or for the purpose of delivering or picking up passengers or property. The weapon may not be removed from the vehicle or be used in any manner.


    This should clarify the issue.
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdaddy1 View Post
    948.61(3) (3) This section does not apply to any person who: ....
    948.61(3)(e) (e) Drives a motor vehicle in which a dangerous weapon is located onto school premises for school-sanctioned purposes or for the purpose of delivering or picking up passengers or property. The weapon may not be removed from the vehicle or be used in any manner.


    This should clarify the issue.
    It is helpful for those who are not transporting firearms... 948.61 is the section for:

    948.61  Dangerous weapons other than firearms on school premises.
    (1) In this section:
    (1)(a) "Dangerous weapon" has the meaning specified in s. 939.22 (10), except "dangerous weapon" does not include any firearm and does include any beebee or pellet-firing gun that expels a projectile through the force of air pressure or any starter pistol.
    Last edited by E6chevron; 11-08-2011 at 02:09 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by E6chevron View Post
    It is helpful for those who are not transporting firearms... 948.61 is the section for:
    Yep, then section 3 where it discusses the exclusions.
    (3) This section does not apply to any person who: 948.61(3)(a) (a) Uses a weapon solely for school-sanctioned purposes.
    948.61(3)(b) (b) Engages in military activities, sponsored by the federal or state government, when acting in the discharge of his or her official duties.
    948.61(3)(c) (c) Is a law enforcement officer or state-certified commission warden acting in the discharge of his or her official duties.
    948.61(3)(d) (d) Participates in a convocation authorized by school authorities in which weapons of collectors or instructors are handled or displayed.
    948.61(3)(e) (e) Drives a motor vehicle in which a dangerous weapon is located onto school premises for school-sanctioned purposes or for the purpose of delivering or picking up passengers or property. The weapon may not be removed from the vehicle or be used in any manner.
    948.61(3)(f)
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

  20. #20
    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Just to clarify because some might be confused by what your are posting: Those exclusions are only for dangerous weapons OTHER than firearms. The exclusions for firearms are in 948.605
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    Regular Member GlockRDH's Avatar
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    It might be worth noting...im sure the church has the school set up as a seperate business/tax entity...for legal and liability purposes...they might just happen to be on adjacent properties...If thats the case, that could be an entire different issue.
    Last edited by GlockRDH; 11-08-2011 at 04:04 PM. Reason: spelling...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brass Magnet View Post
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Just to clarify because some might be confused by what your are posting: Those exclusions are only for dangerous weapons OTHER than firearms. The exclusions for firearms are in 948.605
    now I am confused, 948.605 says gun free school zones, and the exception i see is locked rack or encased... so what about parking lot to pick up a child?

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    Quote Originally Posted by apierce918 View Post
    now I am confused, 948.605 says gun free school zones, and the exception i see is locked rack or encased... so what about parking lot to pick up a child?
    (2) POSSESSION OF FIREARM IN SCHOOL ZONE. (a) Any individ-
    ual who knowingly possesses a firearm at a place that the individ-
    ual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is in or on the
    grounds of a school is guilty of a Class I felony. Any individual
    who knowingly possesses a firearm at a place that the individual
    knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is within 1,000 feet of
    the grounds of a school is subject to a Class B forfeiture.
    (b) Paragraph (a) does not apply to the possession of a firearm
    by any of the following:

    1m. A person who possesses the firearm in accordance with
    18 USC 922 (q) (2) (B) (i), (iv), (v), (vi), or (vii).
    1r. Except if the person is in or on the grounds of a school, a
    licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (d), or an out−of−state
    licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (g).
    2m. A state−certified commission warden acting in his or her
    official capacity.
    3. That is not loaded and is:
    a. Encased; or
    b. In a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;
    A licensee carrying a handgun is only excepted from the school zone, not the school grounds. Otherwise it has to be unloaded and encased or locked in a firearms rack.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdaddy1 View Post
    Yep, then section 3 where it discusses the exclusions.
    (3) This section does not apply to any person who: 948.61(3)(a) (a) Uses a weapon solely for school-sanctioned purposes.
    948.61(3)(b) (b) Engages in military activities, sponsored by the federal or state government, when acting in the discharge of his or her official duties.
    948.61(3)(c) (c) Is a law enforcement officer or state-certified commission warden acting in the discharge of his or her official duties.
    948.61(3)(d) (d) Participates in a convocation authorized by school authorities in which weapons of collectors or instructors are handled or displayed.
    948.61(3)(e) (e) Drives a motor vehicle in which a dangerous weapon is located onto school premises for school-sanctioned purposes or for the purpose of delivering or picking up passengers or property. The weapon may not be removed from the vehicle or be used in any manner.
    948.61(3)(f)
    You need to know the terminology.
    Here is some information: https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/sta...utes/990/001/6

    948.61 is chapter 948, section 61. This section is entitled Dangerous weapons other than firearms on school premises.

    Nothing in section 948.61, including subsection (3), regulates firearms on school premises.

    If you are interested in firearms on school premises you need to look at statute 948.605 https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/sta...atutes/948/605

    A CCW license allows you to possess a firearm in the part of the school zone that is a "doughnut" from 0 to 1,000 feet outside of the school grounds.
    Last edited by E6chevron; 11-09-2011 at 12:52 AM.
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    Ok here's the
    Last edited by Dobb; 01-27-2012 at 10:05 AM.

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