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Thread: Open carrying a BB Gun while voting at school

  1. #1
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Open carrying a BB Gun while voting at school

    Open carrying a BB Gun while voting at school -

    I am not a lawyer but- 18.2 308.1 and the weapons reference to 18.2 308 do not appear to prohibit BB Guns.

    My air pistol looks very similar to a Colt .357.

    Not advocating anybody do it tomorrow, but what do you think?

    Live Free or Die,
    Thundar
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    Respectfully, I'd say you'll likely stir up a hornet's nest if you do.
    Last edited by MilProGuy; 11-07-2011 at 11:04 PM. Reason: edited to correct word usage
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    Regular Member GreatDaneMan's Avatar
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    Agreed... Would probably end up on the news @ 5, legal or not.

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    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    I believe it falls under "gun" because it shoots a object. DONT DO IT.
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

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    nothing good will come of this........

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    Regular Member Riana's Avatar
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    As my polling place in on school grounds as well, I always OC an empty holster - I recommend you do the same. Too much risk of something bad happening if you try to find a way around the law.
    Last edited by Riana; 11-07-2011 at 11:02 PM.

  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    So the government can choose where you must go if you exercise your RIGHT to vote, and can choose a place that denies you your RIGHT to be armed...

    Any good lawyers looking into this?
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    So the government can choose where you must go if you exercise your RIGHT to vote, and can choose a place that denies you your RIGHT to be armed...

    Any good lawyers looking into this?

    This is along the lines of a question I posed in another thread regarding courthouses and what if you were called as a juror - can you be compelled to not exercise a constitutional right because of a lessor law. In this case it is slightly different in that you're not being legally compelled to appear to vote....but yeah, I've wondered about this situation for awhile. You have a constitutional right to carry, and a constitutional right to vote. Do they have a right to designate a voting area where you are precluded from exercising your constitutional right? Wouldn't this be similar to where in the past you were restricted from voting by some local law or another (property ownership, or whatever) and weren't they eventually determined to violate constitutional rights? Perhaps the short question is whether or not a case could be made to compel moving a polling place to one that doesn't inhibit any constitutional rights.

    Or....pondering....I wonder if this would be grounds for challenging the laws regarding absentee ballots? Right now there is nothing in those laws that I see that allow you to request an absentee ballot because you cannot vote at your designated polling place which denies your constitutional rights.

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    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drdan01 View Post
    This is along the lines of a question I posed in another thread regarding courthouses and what if you were called as a juror - can you be compelled to not exercise a constitutional right because of a lessor law. In this case it is slightly different in that you're not being legally compelled to appear to vote....but yeah, I've wondered about this situation for awhile. You have a constitutional right to carry, and a constitutional right to vote. Do they have a right to designate a voting area where you are precluded from exercising your constitutional right? Wouldn't this be similar to where in the past you were restricted from voting by some local law or another (property ownership, or whatever) and weren't they eventually determined to violate constitutional rights? Perhaps the short question is whether or not a case could be made to compel moving a polling place to one that doesn't inhibit any constitutional rights.

    Or....pondering....I wonder if this would be grounds for challenging the laws regarding absentee ballots? Right now there is nothing in those laws that I see that allow you to request an absentee ballot because you cannot vote at your designated polling place which denies your constitutional rights.
    Here's a thought which may help put things into perspective.

    Several years ago, my wife went to the polls to vote and was wearing a "Vote for..." pin on her jacket. That's freedom of speech as far as any reasonable person would be concerned.

    The polling supervisor would not allow her to vote until she went out to the car and removed her political pin and returned. He stated that political signs and other means of support for one candidate or the other within 100 ft. of the polling place was against the law.

    So, what I'm trying to point out is that she had to give up her right to freedom of speech in order to exercise the right to vote.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MilProGuy View Post
    Here's a thought which may help put things into perspective.

    Several years ago, my wife went to the polls to vote and was wearing a "Vote for..." pin on her jacket. That's freedom of speech as far as any reasonable person would be concerned.

    The polling supervisor would not allow her to vote until she went out to the car and removed her political pin and returned. He stated that political signs and other means of support for one candidate or the other within 100 ft. of the polling place was against the law.

    So, what I'm trying to point out is that she had to give up her right to freedom of speech in order to exercise the right to vote.
    I hear and get your point, but think that is a different situation. It's a law enacted that is directly related to the activity of voting, and enacted for the purpose of ensuring that someone's constitutionally protected right to "free speech" doesn't intimidate someone taking advantage of their constitutional right to vote. Free speech is one thing, but I think that the ability to regulate and take action on campaigning inside a polling place is a bit like being able to take action against someone falsely shouting, "fire" in a theater....as I understand the law, you don't have the legal right to free speech that would be known to be false and dangerous - which for the shouting "fire" was established by Schenck v. United States (Supreme Court, 1919). As I understand it, all those rights are no more or no less absolute than any other. So that seems to protect the right to bear arms as long as it doesn't interfere with the right to vote. But speech can and has been limited when it has been found to infringe upon other constitutional rights (such as speech that causes intimidation which then infringes upon the right to vote).

    Having said that, perhaps I could also make the argument that some folks would claim that "man with gun" would intimidate, but I think that would then be addressed by other laws (that determine that man with gun isn't equal to brandishing, and therefore not an illegal act or not intimidating by itself).

    But IMHO that's the difference.

  11. #11
    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drdan01 View Post
    I hear and get your point, but think that is a different situation. It's a law enacted that is directly related to the activity of voting, and enacted for the purpose of ensuring that someone's constitutionally protected right to "free speech" doesn't intimidate someone taking advantage of their constitutional right to vote. Free speech is one thing, but I think that the ability to regulate and take action on campaigning inside a polling place is a bit like being able to take action against someone falsely shouting, "fire" in a theater....as I understand the law, you don't have the legal right to free speech that would be known to be false and dangerous - which for the shouting "fire" was established by Schenck v. United States (Supreme Court, 1919). As I understand it, all those rights are no more or no less absolute than any other. So that seems to protect the right to bear arms as long as it doesn't interfere with the right to vote. But speech can and has been limited when it has been found to infringe upon other constitutional rights (such as speech that causes intimidation which then infringes upon the right to vote).

    Having said that, perhaps I could also make the argument that some folks would claim that "man with gun" would intimidate, but I think that would then be addressed by other laws (that determine that man with gun isn't equal to brandishing, and therefore not an illegal act or not intimidating by itself).

    But IMHO that's the difference.
    You've made some very good points.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MilProGuy View Post
    You've made some very good points.
    Thanks! And it looks like from some of the other threads, some of this is getting "tested" out (election official forced to leave for OC'ing).

    Maybe this has all been settled and I don't know that, but if it hasn't it would seem to be an interesting premise to see play out.

  13. #13
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    What would be the purpose for wearing a bb gun??

    I just don't see the logic in it.
    James Reynolds

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    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    What would be the purpose for wearing a bb gun??

    I just don't see the logic in it.
    Assume you're asking of the OP? I'm only chiming in on OC in general.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    What would be the purpose for wearing a bb gun??

    I just don't see the logic in it.
    A more graphic protest than an empty holster.
    I vote in a school and had three rifles and 2 handguns....so I parked on the street. I'm too busy today to protest.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Is school is session during these times that the premises are being used as polling stations?
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Is school is session during these times that the premises are being used as polling stations?
    Doesn't matter. Va law makes no distinction. A school is a school.
    James Reynolds

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    This is all the more reason folks need to get out an vote. If we win the House and Senate we have a very good chance of getting some form of K-12 carry passed. Even if it is just an exemption for voting, it would be start.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Campaign Veteran roscoe13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    This is all the more reason folks need to get out an vote. If we win the House and Senate we have a very good chance of getting some form of K-12 carry passed. Even if it is just an exemption for voting, it would be start.
    A much better goal would be getting "with the intent to commit a crime" added to the current statute....

    Roscoe
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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roscoe13 View Post
    A much better goal would be getting "with the intent to commit a crime" added to the current statute....

    Roscoe
    Agreed.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    Agreed.
    Agreed, making it legal to carry inside K-12. I have heard stories from people in the good ol days back in the 50's~60's you could carry a gun to school...


    I didn't wear my holster, I don't want to be a target(unarmed with a holster) for some nut to start a fight with me.
    Last edited by ocholsteroc; 11-08-2011 at 02:47 PM.
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I vote in a school and had three rifles and 2 handguns... so I parked on the street. I'm too busy today to protest.
    As long as your rifles are in cases or on a rack (unloaded) and your sidearms likewise unloaded and in a closed container, you could park ON SCHOOL PROPERTY as per 18.2-308.1(C)(v).

    No violation.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roscoe13 View Post
    A much better goal would be getting "with the intent to commit a crime" added to the current statute...
    I could just see a whole load of "arrest him now and charge him later" malarkey leaving the burden on the citizen to prove he DID NOT have nefarious intentions.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    I am no VA law expert, but after 22 years of law enforcement as a 9-1-1 specialist in Illinois, I learned a thing or three.......

    In IL, while you are not carrying a handgun, if it appears similar to one and it causes another person distress, you can be charged with disorderly conduct. I would not be surprised if a similar law would be violated in VA.

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Exclamation

    I would not be surprised if you were violently taken down as a preemptive measure, cuffed and manhandled into the back of a cruiser all while being barked at by officers pointing real guns and tazers at you.

    And your little stunt, while possibly (though not absolutely) legal, will probably not endear you to the local magistrate either.

    My suggestion, as from others, is to encourage legislative restructuring to remove the prohibition altogether AND work for that brass-ring - state level preemption.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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