Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 83

Thread: I WAS working the polling station untill about 30 min ago OC related

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Gloucester, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    629

    Unhappy I WAS working the polling station untill about 30 min ago OC related

    I am an Officer of Election, here in Gloucester County. I showed up at 5am this morning set up the Electronic Polling Books, and we were ready to go by 5:56am. Just before the front door to the Abington Ruritan Club was unlocked to recieve voters, our Deputy chief noticed my holstered kel-tec p11, he got all bugged eyed and said,"that's..that's a gun". To which I replied "yes it is". Several of my other Election Officers assured me that they had no problem, one guy even assured me that he was not worried about guys like me carrying, so all was well and I quickly took my station and began checking in voters, none of which seemed to notice or care that I was legally armed.
    After about 15 minutes of being open for voting my Chief and Deputy Chief, asked me to leave my station and come with them. My Chief Officer then informed me that I can not have a gun at the polling station. I then informed her that I was not violating any laws and that I have been coming to vote with my weapon carried openly for the last several elections, she then handed me a cell phone to speak with Carol Gates, who I believe is our General Registrar for the county.
    Carol quickly informed me that I could not stay at the polling station with my weapon and that if I did not put it in my vehicle I would have to leave. I asked her what state law was I violating, to which she replied " In that building today I am the final word on everything".
    So I asked her "Are you in your Official capacity telling me that I can not legally bear arms" and was she aware that I was not breaking any laws?
    She replied by saying "You are at a polling station, guns are not allowed in there, and that you are making people uncomfortable, what are you afraid of"?

    I told her that I would leave. Then I asked my Chief Officer who complained about my weapon, she told me that she and the Deputy Chief did.

    Now I'm at home all dressed up for no damn good reason!

    Since Carol Gates told me that "You don't want to fight me on this one" did she violate 24.2-1000
    Last edited by Pagan; 11-08-2011 at 07:14 AM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Roanoke, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    170
    Call the State Board of Elections right away: 804.864.8901 or 1.800.552.9745

  3. #3
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580
    It really doesn't surprise me Pagan. This is a new area to deal with.

    It looks like you've documented everything, now carefully research her authority and the limits of it over the polling place...

    Then start raising hell!

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Gloucester, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    629
    Quote Originally Posted by Tosta Dojen View Post
    Call the State Board of Elections right away: 804.864.8901 or 1.800.552.9745
    I'm on hold, apparently they are "recieving a high volume of callers"

  5. #5
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580
    Quote Originally Posted by Pagan View Post
    I'm on hold, apparently they are "recieving a high volume of callers"
    You're recording that I hope.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Baked on Grease's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Sterling, Va.
    Posts
    652
    Also hit up thebigsd, he was going to carry today as an election official too. I think the question here is just how much power/leeway the Chief has in this instance.

    Sent using tapatalk
    "A Right Un-exercised is a Right Lost"

    "According to the law, [openly carrying] in a vehicle is against the law if the weapon is concealed" -Flamethrower (think about it....)

    Carrying an XDm 9mm with Hornady Critical Defense hollowpoint. Soon to be carrying a Ruger along with it....

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Gloucester, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    629
    I just got off the phone with "Rose" she told me to stay by my phone, someone will be calling me back shortly.

    The Commonwealth's Attorneys' office opens at 8am here Gloucester, I will also call them, I feel like I was intimidated by Carol Gates, thus hindering me from my duties as an Election Officer.
    Last edited by Pagan; 11-08-2011 at 07:49 AM.

  8. #8
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705
    One of the few times you could say to someone, "You might want to take a moment to think this through, you are making a life-altering decision here... Do you fully understand the meaning of the phrase 'Under the color of the law?'"

    TFred

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Gloucester, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    629
    I just got off the phone with a David Blackwood that suggested I write a letter to the BOE to get a judgment on my situation to clarify for future elections.

  10. #10
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580
    Quote Originally Posted by Pagan View Post
    I just got off the phone with a David Blackwood that suggested I write a letter to the BOE to get a judgment on my situation to clarify for future elections.
    You might want to get with Proshooter and SD. Proshooter did something last year and SD is testing the waters now.

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Gloucester, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    629
    I just got off the phone with the Commonwealth Attorney's Office here in Gloucester, the young lady told me they needed to research the situation,they will get back with me.

  12. #12
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580
    Were you able to vote?

  13. #13
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,217
    WHY are people so stupid???

    In a polling place, emotions are high, one of the POLLING OFFICIALS is open carrying. WHAT'S NOT TO LIKE???

    (forehead slap).
    A gun in a holster is better than one drawn and dispensing bullets. Concealed forces the latter. - ixtow

    Hi, I'm hypercritical. But I mean no harm, I just like to try to look deeply at life

  14. #14
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580
    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    WHY are people so stupid???

    In a polling place, emotions are high, one of the POLLING OFFICIALS is open carrying. WHAT'S NOT TO LIKE???

    (forehead slap).
    Yeah...why would anyone carry at the polls
    (Roll eyes)
    http://blog.heritage.org/2010/07/21/...-intimidation/

    The New Black Panther Party Evidence on Voter Intimidation




    Hans von Spakovsky
    July 21, 2010 at 1:00 pm
    (12)



    Andy McCarthy has an important story over at National Review Online that does an outstanding job of demolishing many of the myths being propagated about the New Black Panther voter intimidation case. It is important, however, to highlight some specific testimony on one of those myths. One of the constant refrains heard from liberals in their attempt to diminish the importance of the New Black Panther scandal is that there is no evidence that any voters were intimidated or prevented from voting.That claim is patently false although it was repeated last night again by Abigail Thernstrom on NBC News.
    For anyone who bothers to actually look at the record, the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights received direct evidence on that very issue. Those critics also miss the point that it is a crime to attempt to intimidate voters and anyone assisting voters, which would include poll watchers, and no one watching the videotape could come to any conclusion other than the New Black Panthers were trying to intimidate people at that poll in Philadelphia.
    On the issue of poll watchers, one of the witnesses at the first hearing of the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, Chris Hill, testified on that specific point and what happened when he got to the polling place. He was responding to a desperate phone call for help from one of the two black poll watchers who were stationed at the polling place:
    HILL: [Shabazz] immediately started with ‘What are you doing here, Cracker?’ And he and Mr. Jackson attempted to close ranks. I went straight between them through the door to find our poll watcher, who was inside the building at the time…he was pretty shaken up…he was visibly upset.

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Gloucester, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    629
    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Were you able to vote?
    Yes, Officer's normally vote before we open, to ensure the machines are working properly and also make sure we all understand the process.

    This is gonna ruin my whole day, I feel like I just got shat upon and there is nothing I can do, if it wasn't for my desire NOT to create a disturbance is the polling station I would have just stayed anyway, But Carol Gates made it clear I best bend to her will or be on my way. My adrenaline is still pumping, never would have thought a single phone conversation could get me so worked up!
    Last edited by Pagan; 11-08-2011 at 08:34 AM.

  16. #16
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Va Beach, Occupied VA
    Posts
    3,037

    Cool

    With any luck you will have a successful civil rights law suit in your future and a lot of 'splainin' by the BOE for the actions of one of its soon-to-be-former directors.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Uber_Olafsun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Alexandria, Virginia, United States
    Posts
    585
    Do they have any rules or anything that she tried to reference or just a because I said so?

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Gloucester, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    629
    Here is a copy of a letter I just emailed to our General Rigistrar.

    Hello Carole, my name is Ryan XXXXXXX, I would like to express my disappointment with your intimidating and hindering attitude and use of authority with me this morning while I was serving as an Officer of Election at the Abington Ruritan Club.
    I was not in violation of any state laws, nor was I, in anyway causing disruption or hindering my fellow citizens from voting or fellow officers from performing our appointed duties. Also I felt compelled to leave by your use of authority, and I felt intimidated by you, when you told me "Don't fight me on this one,Ryan".
    I was lawfully and peacefully excercising a Right guaranteed by the Constitution of Virginia and the Constitution of the United States.
    I take pride in serving my community when I'm able and I take pride in excercising my rights as a citizen of Virginia, and of these United States.

    Ryan XXXXX

  19. #19
    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Quarryville, PA
    Posts
    3,543
    I am here at my polling place now. I am an Assistant Chief in Lorton. I am Open Carrying a full-size Springfield XD-45. I have had a couple questions but no issues. I will give a full update on my thread at the end of the night.

    I will say this. It is 100% legal to open carry while serving as an election officer. In my opinion, they did not have grounds to ask you to leave. I did some extensve research and found no prohibition.

    Edit: In order to remove a person from the polling place they must be disturbing or interferin with the election. It requires the majority of the election officers to ask a person to leave. I am not sure how much authority the registrar has in this regard.

    § 24.2-607. Prohibited conduct; intimidation of voters; disturbance of election; how prevented; penalties.

    A. It shall be unlawful for any person to hinder, intimidate, or interfere with any qualified voter so as to prevent the voter from casting a secret ballot. The officers of election may order a person violating this subsection to cease such action. If such person does not promptly desist, the officers of election, or a majority of them, may order the arrest of such person by any person authorized by law to make arrests, and, by their warrant, may commit him to the county or city jail, as the case may be, for a period not exceeding twenty-four hours. Any person violating this subsection shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

    B. No person shall conduct himself in a noisy or riotous manner at or about the polls so as to disturb the election or insult or abuse an officer of election. Any person authorized to make arrests may forthwith arrest a person engaging in such conduct and bring him before the officers of the election, and they, by their warrant, may commit him to the county or city jail, as the case may be, for a period not exceeding twenty-four hours; but they shall permit him to vote if he is so entitled.
    Last edited by thebigsd; 11-08-2011 at 09:20 AM.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

  20. #20
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,217
    Quote Originally Posted by Pagan View Post
    Here is a copy of a letter I just emailed to our General Rigistrar.

    Hello Carole, my name is Ryan XXXXXXX, I would like to express my disappointment with your intimidating and hindering attitude and use of authority with me this morning while I was serving as an Officer of Election at the Abington Ruritan Club.
    I was not in violation of any state laws, nor was I, in anyway causing disruption or hindering my fellow citizens from voting or fellow officers from performing our appointed duties. Also I felt compelled to leave by your use of authority, and I felt intimidated by you, when you told me "Don't fight me on this one,Ryan".
    I was lawfully and peacefully excercising a Right guaranteed by the Constitution of Virginia and the Constitution of the United States.
    I take pride in serving my community when I'm able and I take pride in excercising my rights as a citizen of Virginia, and of these United States.

    Ryan XXXXX
    Too weak. You need a comment in their about seeking redress for the unlawful manner in which she used under color of law to abridge your rights. Ask for her superior's email, mention you'll see her in civil court, IDK.
    A gun in a holster is better than one drawn and dispensing bullets. Concealed forces the latter. - ixtow

    Hi, I'm hypercritical. But I mean no harm, I just like to try to look deeply at life

  21. #21
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    www.ProactiveShooters.com, Richmond, Va., , USA
    Posts
    4,671
    I had a feeling that this would happen.

    I spent alot of time (my own choice) re-writing the policy on weapons during elections because it was wrong. Now, my angle was that of voters with guns not necessarily officers of elections who were carrying, although I think the same rules apply.

    My contact is no longer with the agency so I don't really have much of a dog in the fight. I am anxious however to see how this plays out.
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Gloucester, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    629
    I went to Va. Beach yesterday to pick up my mother, so she could watch my 3 little ones, while I was at the polling station all day.

    Then I had to explaine why I was home when they all woke up this morning, since I had been talking about the upcoming election for a while now. It is all quite embarrassing to be honest; to have to explain to my children that daddy was sent home and even harder to encourage faith and trust in our system of government when a violation of our basic God given rights hits so close to home.

  23. #23
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Va Beach, Occupied VA
    Posts
    3,037
    Quote Originally Posted by Pagan View Post
    ... and even harder to encourage faith and trust in our system of government when a violation of our basic God given rights hits so close to home.
    Better that they learn sooner rather than later.

    Mine will.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  24. #24
    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Newport News, VA, ,
    Posts
    1,586
    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    I am here at my polling place now. I am an Assistant Chief in Lorton. I am Open Carrying a full-size Springfield XD-45. I have had a couple questions but no issues. I will give a full update on my thread at the end of the night.

    I will say this. It is 100% legal to open carry while serving as an election officer. In my opinion, they did not have grounds to ask you to leave. I did some extensve research and found no prohibition.

    Edit: In order to remove a person from the polling place they must be disturbing or interferin with the election. It requires the majority of the election officers to ask a person to leave. I am not sure how much authority the registrar has in this regard.

    § 24.2-607. Prohibited conduct; intimidation of voters; disturbance of election; how prevented; penalties.

    A. It shall be unlawful for any person to hinder, intimidate, or interfere with any qualified voter so as to prevent the voter from casting a secret ballot. The officers of election may order a person violating this subsection to cease such action. If such person does not promptly desist, the officers of election, or a majority of them, may order the arrest of such person by any person authorized by law to make arrests, and, by their warrant, may commit him to the county or city jail, as the case may be, for a period not exceeding twenty-four hours. Any person violating this subsection shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

    B. No person shall conduct himself in a noisy or riotous manner at or about the polls so as to disturb the election or insult or abuse an officer of election. Any person authorized to make arrests may forthwith arrest a person engaging in such conduct and bring him before the officers of the election, and they, by their warrant, may commit him to the county or city jail, as the case may be, for a period not exceeding twenty-four hours; but they shall permit him to vote if he is so entitled.
    Pagan, this statute is very subjective. All it would take is for someone to complain (which it appears did happen), and you become the object of unwanted attention. The "any person" term doesn't appear to exclude officers of election. If the registrar is in error, she'll be able to claim "it's on the side of caution".
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

  25. #25
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Newport News, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,845
    I'm really saddened to see this happen to you, Ryan. I can't carry to the polling place as it is at an Elementary school. I agree that "Carole" just left a steaming pile upon your head. We can only hope you are able to return the favor in Civil Court or a public apology at the very least.

    Good Luck, Brother.

    Mike
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •